Harley Davidson LiveWire - Electric Motorcycle!

tntmo

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I recently saw the local dealership was offering test rides of the HD LiveWire. I have ridden a couple electric motorcycles, I like them but I don't think that I would buy one. I am not for or against electric vehicles, I initially hated the idea but have moved to more of a neutral stance on them. There are definitely times that it could make sense. For me, I have a solar system on my home that produces more than I use. I could charge a vehicle with that excess production and essentially have "free" transportation costs (yes, I did have to pay for the solar system).

Anyway, no matter how you feel about electric bikes it's always interesting to ride something new. I was concerned that it was going to be a pain in the backside to do the test ride, but they dealership had it set up to be very simple. Show your license, go over the controls and features of the bike and get your gear on....away you go. The bike is narrow and neutral seating/handlebar locations like an 80's UJM sort of. There is a start button, but obviously all that does is fire up the screen. No clutch, no gears, just twist the grip and go. Low speed handling was great, the throttle response is nice and the center of gravity is low. The bike felt substantial, I didn't know the weight until now, 550 pounds or so.

There are four modes: rain, eco, street and sport. They started us in rain mode and suggested we try all of them. I was in rain mode for a block and quickly cycled through them all to sport mode. WOW, this thing boogies! Very responsive throttle (0-60mph in three seconds) and lots of "engine braking". I would probably have it in sport mode as much as I could get away with if I had one of these, but the range is likely cut down significantly. HD claims a range of about 150 miles for these, real world numbers are anyone's guess. Supposed to be able to recharge to 80% in less than an hour. Battery system has a five year warranty.

Only got to go on the freeway for one exit but I would have absolutely no qualms about keeping up with any traffic outside of the Autobahn. I believe they have it limited to just under 100 mph. With the sit up riding position and no wind protection you likely don't want to go that fast anyway.

The elephant in the room: The price. This bike has a list price of $34,000. I can't see spending that for any motorcycle, especially a first year all new technology machine that has limited range. I find it very interesting that HD was the first major manufacturer to the plate with an all electric bike, but knowing their customers I don't believe that it will be a sales success. I would love to have one for a week or a month but I wouldn't pay for one. Maybe if I win the lottery? Well, anyway I got a free shirt and poster along with some chips and a drink. HD dealerships are definitely customer oriented, I will give them that!

I made a video, I'm an amateur so my video skills are not great but watch it if you like. What do y'all think of the idea of electric motorcycles?

 

moto.monk

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Three year financing is $731+ per month for $29k msrp. Crazy the things HD think they can ask for as if the times call for it. Even more crazy is that I could get three st with extras and some pocket change left over at that price.
 

tntmo

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Three year financing is $731+ per month for $29k msrp. Crazy the things HD think they can ask for as if the times call for it. Even more crazy is that I could get three st with extras and some pocket change left over at that price.
Yeah, it's just too much money no matter how cool of a bike it is. I'm hoping that technology will cause a price reduction sometime soon, but it's not going to come quick enough to help move these off the floor. I'd like to have one in my garage if anyone wins the lottery, please!
 

moto.monk

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Yeah, it's just too much money no matter how cool of a bike it is. I'm hoping that technology will cause a price reduction sometime soon, but it's not going to come quick enough to help move these off the floor. I'd like to have one in my garage if anyone wins the lottery, please!
It notes that its not going to happen for HD as they will be out of business. In some sense they will be around but not making new bikes but in cloths and bike maintenance. With the bikes left over I think 15k might be possible.
 
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tntmo

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It notes that its not going to happen for HD as they will be out of business. In some sense they will be around but not making new bikes but in cloths and bike maintenance. With the bikes left over I think 15k might be possible.
Doubtful that they will be out of the business of making bikes.
 

magic

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The 150 mile range and the high purchase price are deal breakers for most riders. The high cost of replacing batteries is another reason not to buy one. Before retiring I worked as a model maker in the R&D department at an area outdoor power equipment company. We developed and built an electric riding lawn mower. I tested one out at home for a summer. It was a pretty good machine, but very few were sold and the project was dropped after 1 year. Buyers were just not interested. The LiveWire might suffer the same fate.
 

Sierra1

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Doubtful that they will be out of the business of making bikes.
Part of me agrees; they've weathered a lot of hard times. The other part of me says their days are numbered; Indian is a serious & capable threat. They will sell their E-bikes. Y'all know there's s shit ton of people with more dollars than sense.
 
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RonH

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Harley riders love the noise of the engine more than actually riding. Electric will not be a viable option for them. However it's possible to have a soundtrack system, like a 8 track player, that has motor noise rider can select. Rev, rev, rev at idle at lights ect. Might be a hit. 8 track could have a few options, rev at idle, rev at shift point, rev constantly. Volumn adjustable from 10db to 200db. Maybe a $1,000 upgrade to a cassette deck vs the 8 track, or option to upgrade either from standard Chinese Chungwa to Panasonic.
 
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magic

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Harley riders love the noise of the engine more than actually riding. Electric will not be a viable option for them. However it's possible to have a soundtrack system, like a 8 track player, that has motor noise rider can select. Rev, rev, rev at idle at lights ect. Might be a hit. 8 track could have a few options, rev at idle, rev at shift point, rev constantly. Volumn adjustable from 10db to 200db. Maybe a $1,000 upgrade to a cassette deck vs the 8 track, or option to upgrade either from standard Chinese Chungwa to Panasonic.
Good idea, but they will have to make it shake, vibrate and leak oil too.
 

Checkswrecks

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The 150 mile range and the high purchase price are deal breakers for most riders. The high cost of replacing batteries is another reason not to buy one.
Agree that the range and cost will keep most people away, but when I saw the prototype several years ago and talked to the engineer, he said HD never planned for this bike to be a massive hit in sales numbers. With the 750, small bikes, India (till recently), and China, they are working hard to find new riders because the Old Guard is not the future and the company knows it. The LiveWire simply put them on the board and got their people into a technology they see as one (not all) wave into the future.

As for replacing the battery, fuggedaboutit because it will last longer than the rest of the bike. My run around car is a 7 year old PHEV Volt with 80,000 miles that has 94% of original battery capacity and still gets more range than what they claimed it would get as a new car back in 2013. And the Volt is old tech. The LiveWire batteries are not the newest tech either. The new lithium batteries are MUCH better and the prices per kWh are falling fast.
 

moto.monk

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Actually, their stock has stayed pretty constant for longer than that and has been a money maker this year.
View attachment 72071
Actually its misleading since
Actually, their stock has stayed pretty constant for longer than that and has been a money maker this year.
View attachment 72071
Actually per your graph it shows stocks going down in 2008 and of course in 2020 it took a nose dive. However what it doesnt show is the amount of share hording hd has done in order to pump up its shares. Its tricking its current share holders into thinking they doing well when in reality they are doing bad. Another fact would be to look at units sold/made in the US. With them outsourcing parts to china as of 2004 or there abouts it further shows how there trying to keep costs down and profits up. Used market is not important as they can be sold by anyone. Clothing was another strategy to show profit but how many t shirts can you sell to aging generation? There current and last ditch effort was to sell to a new market which could care less about the hd brand as others have been there for decades. If I had to guess i think the company will be bought out by a chinese company and rebranded but at a huge lost to hd and its investors or they just kill off most of company and produce clothing and focusing bike maintenance. For more sources check out news articles and Ryan f9 makes a great video detailing everything that some hd riders have no idea what's going with the company.
 

magic

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Now that the Toyota Prius has been around for a while batteries are out of warranty and need replacing. The replacement costs range from about $1700 for a refurbished unit to about $4000 for a new factory one. I know of two Prius owners that had to buy batteries for their 10 year old cars recently. Both wonder if the cost of batteries and charging is actually cheaper than buying gas, especially now that gas is less than $2 a gallon. Starting with the 2020 models the battery warranty has been extended to 10 years or 150,000 miles. The older ones had 8 year 100,000 mile warranties.
 

Sierra1

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I watched a show that showed how much pollution was caused in the making of the Prius batteries. It was pretty surprising. Prius owners like to think their cars are super green. . . . but that's not entirely true.
 

moto.monk

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I watched a show that showed how much pollution was caused in the making of the Prius batteries. It was pretty surprising. Prius owners like to think their cars are super green. . . . but that's not entirely true.
Again back to the whole I feel human error. When a thing, person, argument, idea, policy is looked at more broadly things change. The idea that electric is way to go is a lie at this point and time. When you look at other variables, you will see that it's almost as bad or worse then gas if you include human capital. The idea has take precedence over facts and further clouded by political and climate change ideology. Is climate change real? Yes, but to what extent? As we are specs of dust to other specs of dust the grand scheme of things. Did I mention that life is about finding that one piece, that one piece of golden brown goodness that is the chicken nugget?
 
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tntmo

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I honestly didn't care that it was "green", it was different, powerful and just a lot of fun to ride. Have an open mind and try one out if you get a chance. Nobody is forcing you to buy one or to give up your current bike. I am not going to buy one after riding it, but I guess if I won the lottery I would put one in my new giant garage.
 

Checkswrecks

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To keep this thread about the LiveWire, I've started a thread that is devoted to EVs and batteries here:

Please go there to talk about more than just the Harley.

Thanks
 

Madhatter

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tntmo, im not opposed to the electric bikes or cars , simple mean they are not as green as they would have you believe . and I am ready to try one ,just not had the chance as of this time.
I have been watching" long way up" Mcgregor and Borman on a redesigned to look more like an adventure bike, one off custom prototypes . they look good and seem to be pretty rugged . I could see owning one of those bikes at some point. sound like something out of star wars.
with the changes they made to the live wire to look like an adventure bike it was a better looking machine .
 
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