Group Dynamics when touring

[big dave]

Hi, I'm trying to pull together a presentation on the benefits and problems of motorcycle touring in a group size of around 6. I'm not particularly interested in groups run by commercial companies but would still appreciate any feedback from leaders or participants of those tours.
What I want to focus on is groups of friends, forum buddies who come together once a year for a 2 to 3 week tour.
How do you decide who will "lead"?, how do yo resolve any issues?, does the group stay together?, what winds you up?, do you bite your lip or let rip? What are the benefits?
Let me know how the tour went for you.
Thanks

 

[Bryn]

Most I've organised was an open invite trip to Germany and Poland.. 19 bikes , met most of them for the first time at Dover :-X

Only sure thing... Rider with the route/tour leader stays as the leader...and then employ the 'first man drop off '
System....so whoever is behind the leader stops when there is a deviation of the route.
Meanwhile the rider at the back stays at the back ::008::

It helps if everyone has a satnav and know where the nightly stop is, in case you get seperated, which will probably happen ::021::

 

[Andylaser]

Last time I went on a group ride was to the Bulldog Bash. We all knew where to go, no one was leader, we just rode had fun and changed places as we felt like.

We chased some Mods on scooters. ;D

 

[Harry Dresden PI]

I often ride in groups and we;

1. Decide on a leader before we ride. Someone plans the trip and shares the details. Planner has maps / gps ...
2. Often change the leader after any stop for gas / food.
3. Stay in sight of each other and never leave anyone behind. (Don't let people get lost at road forks)
4. Use blue tooth communication for the leader and tail rider. If possible
5. Agree how far we want to travel before doing a gas / rest stop (rider with the shortest range ~ 150 miles)
6. Review what tools, equipment the whole group has and ensure you have the right mix
7. Have AMA or AAA or some tow rescue contract set up before you ride
8. Decide before you start the type and price of what restaurants and motels everyone can agree to. (Or camp)
9. Know the riders limitations and how many miles each can safety do each day. (some can do 200 some 800 a day) Some will do till they drop and you do not want tired riders impacting group safety

My 2 cents on group trips

 

[Arkyrider]

The small group I ride with on long trips is 4 bikes all 2 up, normally 9 - 10 day trips. Not a large group by any means but these are general guidelines we use. A few differences but basically the same as Harry Dresden PI posted.

1. Decide on a leader before we ride. Someone plans the trip and shares the details. Planner has maps / gps ...Leader stays the same thru entire trip.
2. Stay in sight of each other and never leave anyone behind. Pull over & wait if someone falls behind (stop light, traffic congestion, etc...)
3. Agree how far we want to travel before doing a gas / rest stop (rider with the shortest range ~ 150 miles)
4. Review what tools, equipment the whole group has and ensure you have the right mix
5. Decide before you start the type and price of what activities, restaurants and motels everyone can agree to.
6. Know the riders limitations and how many miles each can safety do each day.

 

[Madscots]

Only sure thing... Rider with the route/tour leader stays as the leader...and then employ the 'first man drop off '
System....so whoever is behind the leader stops when there is a deviation of the route.
Meanwhile the rider at the back stays at the back ::008::

It helps if everyone has a satnav and know where the nightly stop is, in case you get seperated, which will probably happen ::021::

I run tours around Europe for clubs in UK for fun and this is THE best way of doing it. ::008::

 

[Squibb]

Not much to add really, other than think of 'tail end charlie'.

I don't normally group ride these days as, maybe selfishly, I prefer to do my own thing - so we just agree to meet at a way point/destination. However I do recall, when in a quick group, the guy who has the toughest time is the person riding at the tail. This is when risks are taken in a bid to be seen to be able to keep up with the fast riders up front. The first man drop off system certainly helps keep this issue under control, but it can prove difficult for some riders to maintain a sensible approach - a natural desire to show off I guess.

Just another thought with groups - the habit of following through on overtakes, We had to take emergency action last season in Austria, when a group of about 10 riders came across the crown of the road head on towards us. The first couple of guys had a clean overtake opportunity; the others just followed through blindly, all way too close to one another. This was in tunnel systems with bends up a high mountain pass. Had I been a bus/truck they would have had no escape. They were all just getting too competitive & probably lacked a good leader to keep things in check. I think we have all seen a few of these types, but this group just kept on giving, leaving us virtually stationary in the gutter.

Ride Safe ............... KEN

 

[big dave]

thanks for all the replies, however what I was really looking for was an insight into how the interpersonal relationships and dynamics affected the tours over the period of the ride. Were there fallouts, did the group split, how was harmony rebuilt, etc

 

[FrontRangeRider]

Most of the same comments (1-9) as Harry Dresden. Only difference is not having a contract in place for the group before the trip. We also make our lodging reservations ahead of time; core planners lay out the backbone of the trip and invitees are free to join the group if the route, hotel choices, etc. are of interest.

Group dynamics have never been a problem for us on our rides. Latest had 9 riders for a week through NM and CO. The route planner shares all the routes via Google maps ahead of time (before the trip). For those who want to pick up the pace, do bonus miles or see something else not on the agenda, they know the destination at day's end and know they are welcome to go their own way. We are also selective about who we invite to join the group. All group members are invited to share their knowledge about the personality attributes of potential invitees. Persons with demonstrated "drama" issues are not invited along. We are of the opinion that we don't want to put up with annoying people when on vacation.

 

[Tyke]

I reckon the question has been well answered in the previous posts

Personally I do not like group touring, we ride out regularly but only about 4 maybe 5 of us at most..

I've ridden in groups of 50 + on classic bike rally ride outs and in those cases a "back marker" wearing a high vis tabard always acts as sweeper at the rear of the group thereby ensuring that everyone is safe, in addition a 'marker' or the first bike after the group leader stops at a corner in order to show the way for the following riders in the main group, he only moves on after the "back marker" arrives..

It works well for us ::008::

 

[greg the pole]

thanks for all the replies, however what I was really looking for was an insight into how the interpersonal relationships and dynamics affected the tours over the period of the ride. Were there fallouts, did the group split, how was harmony rebuilt, etc

I like to keep my rides to 4 people max. At that point if you are all relying on one person to lead, delegate, and keep the peace, it becomes stressful for that person.
do decide what kind of accommodations you want to do prior to setting off.
do decide ahead of time where you want to eat. This is a big one, as diet will affect everyone differently. Case in point, one of the guys on our ride last week (6 days-3100km, 40% dirt) had a bad case of gout.
If we knew about his condition ahead of time, and the fact that he has to limit his alcohol, salt, and other crappy food intake, we would have eaten fairly healthy from the word go (think subway, not mickie dees)
also, at the end of a long, and tiring day (had a few, where we got lost, and though we would need to camp in the bush), one person makes the decision. At the end of the day, you do not need the opinion of 4 people. Pick the smartest choice, and get to it.

It's a shifting dynamic, of a bunch of people having to conform to one idea/plan...which can be difficult sometimes.
Also. At the start of the trip. Take out a sheet of paper. Write down everyones emergency contact and numbers. Each rider takes a picture of said paper, and sends it to their loved ones. that way if you're wife doesn't hear from you, she will not go crazy with worry.
Also if you ride in the sticks...use a spot, or similar device. very helpful for both ends. You can always send a quick ok message to everyone, even when you're outside cell service (which we were several times)

 

[spam16v]

I rarely ride with groups. The few people I ride with are/were MSF coaches, and a few folks now and again off ADVRider. I rode with a few of my father's friends and it was atrocious and quickly reminded me why I don't ride with many people. That being said I went to the Romney meet and latched on with a group of 8 others and had a fantastic time. Choreographed almost, staggered and then perfectly inline through tighter stuff. Pace was "spirited" considering any of the riders could have very well been my father or close to it (me being in my mid 30's). Pack of Glee's, Vee's, S10's and a stray BMW (which did make it ) That being said, I still prefer to keep to myself most of the time.

 

[Koinz]

I do an annual trip with a bunch of guys. Most of which I ridden before with. It's generally for 10 days and the group this year is getting kind of large 12-15 people. I was almost at the point of bowing out because of the large number of people. We're meeting with people from all over and ending up at a base camp in Maine this year.

We do switch off leaders when appropriate.
We'll do 200-300 miles a day depending on our destination and tourist destinations.
Reserve hotels in advance.

Once we get to our destination, we have pre planned routes but people can ride their own ride and meet back at the base camp.

If someone breaks down, we always have found a way to get them going. The harder ones are those German and British bikes to find parts in the middle of nowhere. ;D

In larger groups, I prefer that riders stay in the position they're in. I had one guy passing me, then backing off, side to side. It was driving me nuts. Never knew where he was.

I'm pretty sure that since we have such a large group that we'll split off into a couple of smaller groups and meet somewhere in the middle of planned route.

I think one guy is trailering with his enclosed trailer to the base camp so there's some added benefit to that.

Slower riders can be frustrating, especially if they're near the front and falling behind the leader. We always stop and have people catch up before we make a turn off to another road, but if it's a long stretch with no directional changes we keep going otherwise we don't make good time. They'll catch up eventually and everyone has each others cell phone numbers.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I know my wife and I make a very small group, but we do have some habits that help us.

I ride in the left side of the lane, she in the right. When passing on a two lane road, upon pulling back in front of the vehicle we just passed I always move all the way over to the right side of the lane. It opens up plenty of room for her if she needs to get in quick for some reason. We stay in those positions until there is a good space between us then we both switch back to our normal lane position.

That one maneuver has saved us countless arguments over the blue tooth. It's automatic in our riding now. We had a GS rider get in a loose formation with us as we crossed South Dakota a couple of weeks ago. We all ended up at the same gas station/pump and he mentioned how synchronized we were with our riding. Took a lot of rides to get us to this point.

 

[bigbob]

I am a member of Star Touring and Riding chapter 210. We pride ourselves on riding tight formations. Max of 14 bikes in a pack and if more we split into two packs with 100 yard separation.

Leader always in left half of lane. Everyone knows and repeats hand signals. We ride staggered formations with 2 seconds between the person in front of you and 1 second behind your stagger partner. The main rule is no crossing.

On 4 lane the entire left stagger starts a pass and moves over before the right stagger moves. Once the tailgunner (usually me) clears he moves right and then the right stagger moves right and (if we do it right] the left stagger moves only when all of the right is over.

On a 2 lane, the leader signals single file and you pass when you can and then rejoin in the proper stagger.

I have ridden thousands of miles with these people without problems and enjoy it.

 

[Harry Dresden PI]

A few reasons that tight formation may/can be safer:

0. You will be seen (must less chance of people turning into to you in a head on)
1. People see a long line of motorcycles (a herd of motorcycles) as more formidable are are less likely to use their vehicles larger size to bully the solo rider.
2. If the group is less tight ... often my experience is that often / many ... car / truck ... drivers will unsafely merge into the center of the group (Happens all the time in Florida)

There are many safety issues with tight formations, ...... to me one of the biggest to me is that you must have 100% focus on the group ......
.... So enjoyment of the ride goes down as it is not safe look around to view the rest of the world you are riding by ... when in a tight group

RANT ON

Large motorcycle groups piss off other drivers once the group get so large it exceeds the length of the largest truck + trailers. Worst is on the interstate when large motorcycle groups block cars wanting to go faster. Large motorcycle groups can often cause a traffic bottleneck that slows traffic to the point of road rage. Who in their logical mind wants to piss off someone who out weighs you by 10 times ... some bike groups want to piss off others to show how much power they think they have. In Florida there are so many CCW (Guns) ... an armed society is a polite society ... but less so in vehicles ...

RANT OFF

I like riding with friends in medium size motorcycle groups, not because I like tight formations, but at times tight formations can be safer ... in Florida traffic.

 

[bigbob]

Yup we are tight enough that not many people think about merging into our gaps or going from a side street through us. If the gaps get larger a cage may try to join us in the middle.


You do it with the same people enough and it becomes automatic.


We do watch new people very close until they learn.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

I know when I hit the deer last month I was sure glad my wife was more than 2 seconds behind me. Gave her time to avoid the side case cartwheeling down the road at 75 MPH.

 

[Checkswrecks]

We have people writing from the most diverse types of riding I can think of. All that is missing are the dirt bikers.

Bob is in Iowa and maybe riding down into Texas with a group riding Star cruisers. The group members all know each other quite well and probably picking the best hours for these social events. By the standards of southern Florida or LA, this would easy-peasy as far as traffic and the less crowded people there in the "Buckle of the Bible Belt" (and proud to tell you so) seem to pay more attention.

While Dirt Dad's deer situation could certainly become the bowling ball for Bob's group in Iowa, he is writing about high speed "get somewhere" on the open highway.

Fred is in SoCal, where the roads are either curvy canyons, never-ending traffic lights, or crowded highways where motorcycles are expected to split traffic, and for the most part, he is a commuter like me. We're mostly lone riders cutting through the steel cages. The way I ride commuting or even alone on twisty roads is much quicker and totally different than when Karen is on the back or when I'm with a group. A group like Bob's would be able to choose a good time to go to avoid getting stuck as a crowd on the 405/Ventura/etc.

Poor Harry is in southern Florida where the roads may be flat, but they are always packed and there are only 2 speeds - stopped and flat-out in bumper to bumper traffic at 75+. At either speed, it's crazy crowded and the cagers jerk themselves all over the road, so pack riding is a form of self preservation like schools of fish.

And all four of these are totally different than what Dave asked about with respect to group touring.