Frustrated that used bike I bought is not starting now!
- Thread starter ra2ras
- Start date
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
It was explained to me that the slow sounding turnover when cranking is by design. If the starter cranks too fast (>250 RPM) the decompression mechanism will retract, which will make starting really difficult. If Yamaha had not included a decompression mechanism, they'd have had to use an even bigger, heavier, not to mention more expensive, starter and battery.
Must be a nude beach. . . . I can see her jugs.
lund
Well-Known Member
Slow cranking in this case has to do with amp draw. The speed of a starter can be whatever it is design for a starting speed needed via gears in combination with starter motor power. The starter motor in the case of the XTZ is too weak (lacks power) so draws lots of amps to accomplish its goal. A big displacement twin is nothing new and the S10 does have an inherent slow start problem directly related to a weak starter from new.
Yamaha never deemed it as a problem.
Installing bigger batteries or heavier cables will not change anything other than it may crank longer before just killing the battery, why because the starter motor will not give more than what it was design to give unfortunately. Having more power in a battery will not make a starter motor deliver more power, just crank longer.
Hope that makes sense.
lund
Well-Known Member
That third Tenere is on its own because its the black sheep of the 3.
I'm going to disagree with you on this. My S10 turned over slowly from the day it was new. When I started having the hard to start problems I put in a new Litihum battery. It spun over a lot faster and was a lot easier to start. A weak low cca amp battery just doesn't have the power that a strong high cca battery does.
ra2ras
Member
UPDATE: Got the wiring harness upgraded (recalled item)! The dealer did it for free. Just rode the bike back home. The bike started on 1st press within 5 seconds even when it was a cold a 4 deg C here. Not 100% sure, but it could have been one of the issues for my starting trouble. Only time will tell if my S10 starting trouble is history. Thank you everyone for the tips, they helped a lot.
Pic from Google. Not mine.
Last edited:
Yamaha4Ever
Member
I could swear my bike was starting with significantly more vigor after I upgraded to a 14S. Funny how mind works.
Fordf350
Well-Known Member
I replaced factory battery at 6 years, upgraded to the 14s and was expecting a significant difference. It did not come, no difference at all. I was going on a long trip so needed the peace of mind anyway.
Last edited:
Fennellg
Well-Known Member
That wire harness looks daunting yikes
Thats why I went Eastern Beaver PC 8. Plug and play. Tapping and splicing no bueno.
Thats why I went Eastern Beaver PC 8. Plug and play. Tapping and splicing no bueno.
Last edited:
lund
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to get into a debate on this subject but its a fact. It may help an already problematic starter or an underlaying issue, mask it but you cannot make an electric motor generate, in this case a starter generate more amps then what it's armature winded will allow.
You can try to shove more amps and it may appear that it is making more amps but its not. It will crank longer and stronger but not faster then what the armature winding will allow current to flow through.
Increase in speed can only be done by increasing the voltage, 12v @150amps is still 12v and 12v @250amps is still 12v. Though the 250amp battery will work longer, harder but not any faster.
Anyhow, take it for what you want.
You can try to shove more amps and it may appear that it is making more amps but its not. It will crank longer and stronger but not faster then what the armature winding will allow current to flow through.
Increase in speed can only be done by increasing the voltage, 12v @150amps is still 12v and 12v @250amps is still 12v. Though the 250amp battery will work longer, harder but not any faster.
Anyhow, take it for what you want.
It is not a debate, but the problem is not as it is stated. The 12 V will always be 12V. It is true that the speed of rotation of the starter is determined by its armature. But the problem "during the start"... is that the voltage decreases (12v, 11.5, 11v, 10.5v) the more seconds the starter motor is turning, As the voltage decreases during cranking, the rotational speed of the starter motor decreases.... that's why in a battery whose main function is "the start"... the most important thing to take into account is the "Cold crank Amp" (which is the power that the battery can release, before its voltage decreases)...... if the battery function is electrical support (a refrigerator, a blower, lighting), in this case the most important measure would be the Ah (how many hours can it be maintaining a consumption of "X" amps
Last edited:
Cycledude
Well-Known Member
It has been proven over and over by Tenere owners that a higher output battery does help.
But if Yamaha would have used a more powerful starter we would rarely see this no start issue.
But if Yamaha would have used a more powerful starter we would rarely see this no start issue.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
Starters don’t make amps, they consume them. The stronger, higher CCA, battery does indeed help the starter stay cranking at it’s designed speed longer and more vigorously. I don’t think anyone said it would make the starter crank faster.
With the original battery, I felt the cranking RPM drop off rather quickly if the bike did not immediately start.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Yamaha4Ever
Member
Amen.
ra2ras
Member
Thank you gentlemen for all the points and the discussion. I learnt a lot re. battery, CCA, starter idiosyncrasies of the S10
. I realized that the Ah is a critical metric to compare batteries for this bike. I just pulled these for quick comparisionYuasa YTZ12S (LeadAcid) = 11Ah, 210 CCA
Mighty Max YTZ12SGEL (Gel) = 11Ah, 210 CCA
Antigravity ATZ10-RA (Lithium) = 12Ah, 300CCA
NOCO NLP14 (Lithium) = 12.6Ah, 500CCA
Seems like Lithium Ah and LeadAcid Ah capacity are not comparable! NOCO Li gives a separate LeadAcid equivalent Ah!
that's right, the lithium ones are not comparable with the gel/acid ones…..the lithium ones will always have the same voltage and the same CCA, even when the battery is half charged. That is to say, with half charged, the lithium ones will release the same voltage and the same CCA, but for “half the time”…..on the other hand, the gel/acid ones, with half charged, will quickly lose voltage during start-up and this it will decrease the CCA as well….Lithium is an “evolution” in terms of batteries (evolution in weight, in CCA, in charge maintenance and evolution in terms of the number of recharges: useful life)Thank you gentlemen for all the points and the discussion. I learnt a lot re. battery, CCA, starter idiosyncrasies of the S10
Yuasa YTZ12S (LeadAcid) = 11Ah, 210 CCA
Mighty Max YTZ12SGEL (Gel) = 11Ah, 210 CCA
Antigravity ATZ10-RA (Lithium) = 12Ah, 300CCA
NOCO NLP14 (Lithium) = 12.6Ah, 500CCA
Seems like Lithium Ah and LeadAcid Ah capacity are not comparable! NOCO Li gives a separate LeadAcid equivalent Ah!
View attachment 97845
ErictheBiking
Active Member
That's not a battery.
THIS is a battery:
THIS is a battery:
Yamaha4Ever
Member
My brain:
- 2s Wait what? WTF am I looking at?
- 2s Ohhhh a battery attached to a side car!
- 2s Wait what? But why on earth someone would put it on the "wrong side" of the bike?
- 2s Ohhh dude in Australia...
- 2s Ohhh he's making a Crock Dundy joke... How cute is that.