First Ride Impressions - Super Tenere vs. Tiger Explorer

Rasher

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Paulvt1 said:
The Tiger 12 is a great bike for us Sports / Touring refugees. Comfy and Fast
I am still having a degree of difficulty not going too fast on the S10, I still find myself coming up on dopey car drivers at such a rate I swear they are reversing at me.

I think the Triumph is a sports tourer, a fast engine in a sporty chassis with adventure styling cos that is the "in thing", I am sure they could have put touring bodywork on it and made it look more like an FJR / GTR / RT, or made it a neked or half faired bike, but the current trend is for Adventure bikes.

The rest will follow I reckon, and what is effectively the same chassis and engine will be available as three or four different models with just different wheels, bodywork and maybe ECU changes to mode the power about a little.

Not as bad as the Honda though, where they just put bigger wheels and long forks onto a VFR, gotta be the smallest ever budget for designing an adventure bike - and from the biggest manufacturer, and although I like it in some ways if it flops they only have themselves to blame.

Triumph obviously did a lot of homework, but all based on the assumption that nobody rides these things off-road and therefore making a faster adventure bike with performance and handling more like a sportsbike would tick all the boxes, not for me I am afraid, I like the relatively low power of the Tenere, and the amazing stability - having now ridden it in heavy rain and gale force winds I can honestly say there is no other bike I would have rather been riding in those conditions where by comparison the GS is an unstable liability, and any sportsbike is a motorised death warrant.

Still with the Triumph getting the road riders money and the Tenere stealing some of the off-road / proper adventure bike cash BMW are probably going to see a significant slump, be interesting to see where they have gone with the wasser boxer.
 

Combo

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Rasher said:
I think the Triumph is a sports tourer, a fast engine in a sporty chassis with adventure styling cos that is the "in thing", I am sure they could have put touring bodywork on it and made it look more like an FJR / GTR / RT, or made it a neked or half faired bike, but the current trend is for Adventure bikes.

The rest will follow I reckon, and what is effectively the same chassis and engine will be available as three or four different models with just different wheels, bodywork and maybe ECU changes to mode the power about a little.
Looks like you were right. 2013 Triumph Trophy will use the Explorer motor.
http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/new-bikes/2012/06/22/first-look-2013-triumph-trophy/
 

Paulvt1

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Had another look at the Tiger 12 today. I just can't get over how crude the swingarm looks. When you study the one on our S10's then you admire the engineering logic behind the design. The Yamaha one is the one that Triumph should have copied.
 

Road water

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As owner of a Tiger 1050 looking for a new dual sport I could relate to Ventures comments. i agree with all his comments but would add the following. I have tested an Explorer and ST and found them both to be excellent bikes but with a fatal flaw in each. The Explorer generates tremendous engine heat that bathes the rider in it from waist to boot. The ST had bad engine vibration from 4500 up. The ST design with the side radiator is smart and the heat is well managed but what about the vibes. I would appreciate your comments.
 

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Roadnwater said:
As owner of a Tiger 1050 looking for a new dual sport I could relate to Ventures comments. i agree with all his comments but would add the following. I have tested an Explorer and ST and found them both to be excellent bikes but with a fatal flaw in each. The Explorer generates tremendous engine heat that bathes the rider in it from waist to boot. The ST had bad engine vibration from 4500 up. The ST design with the side radiator is smart and the heat is well managed but what about the vibes. I would appreciate your comments.
I didn't ride the Explorer on the hottest of days, but you are right. The engine heat is noticeably worse than it is on the 1050. The 1050 actually does a tremendously good job of controlling heat so I sort of expected it, but on a hot day it could be an issue.
 

creggur

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I was dead-set on an Explorer to replace my VFR...until I rode a Tenere. The bike simply fits me..no other way to say it.

Sat on an Explorer last weekend and it just didn't 'feel' right. I'm sure it's a marvelous bike, but I have zero regrets going with the Tenere. As an aside, I've been off-road more in the past six months than I would've expected to in five years - the bike shaping my riding - and I'm okay with that 100%.
 

Buckeye56

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Roadnwater said:
Any observations on the ST vibration?
I have had parallel twins before so the vibes don't seem excessive to me. That said, the engine does get smoother as you add miles to it. It is not as smooth as my ST1300 or FZ1 and I don't remember if the 955i I had was buzzy or not. We just finished a 9-day, 3800+ miles trip out to Colorado and vibration was not an issue for me. YMMV.
 

Venture

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Roadnwater said:
Any observations on the ST vibration?
More than I'm used to, obviously. The triples are electric smooth as you know.

I don't think they were excessive, definitely better than the last v-twin I owned. I could get used to it, I don't think it's a deal breaker.
 

fredz43

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I just want to comment on one of Chris' observations, namely:

"Downshifting at one point produced a nice chirp from the rear tire, taking me back to the last shaft driven twin-cylinder bike I'd owned and reminding me that twins have immense engine braking. Not something I actually care for, to be honest. The transmission is good, nothing unexpected or enlightening, just a good transmission.
"

It recallls for me the first time I took a Reg Pridmore CLASS, this one at Road America in Elkhart Lake, WI. Reg likes to teach smoothness in both upshifts and downshifts. He explained rev matching of the engine and rear wheel in the classroom sessions and I recall that in the morning on track sessions that followed, most of us were chirping our rear tires as we downshifted when coming into turns, all the while trying to put into practice what Reg was preaching in the classroom. I was on a 750 VFR and was one of the best "chirpers" all morning. Suddenly in the afternoon sessions it all started to come together and I found that a little blip before downshifting was all it took for a smooth downshift.

Since those days, I have had a lot of bikes, including 90 degree V twins of a Super Hawk 996, RC51 and Ducati ST2. By applying the smooth downshifting methods I learned in CLASS, I had no problems with smooth chirpless downshifts.

One of the first things I noticed with my new Super Tenere is how very easy it is to exercise a very smooth downshift, as it seems to have much less engine braking than any of the previous v twins I have owned and it seemed to respond eagerly to the throttle blip. I still take delight in coming into a tight corner, giving a very slight blip and find myself in a lower gear without a hint of rear wheel chirp. I think it excells in smooth downshifts if you use the proper technique. If you simply down shift and pop the clutch, you will get a chirp, but that isn't the bike's fault.
 

justbob

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Very good insight there Fred, I'm an old blipper from way back.
 

eemsreno

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Very well said Fred, When I first read that statement of Ventures I had know Idea what he was talking about. I have never chirped the rear tire on my Tenere. I have riden big twins that I really chirped big time downshifting though.
 

snakebitten

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More than 1 S10'er has stated they don't feel much contrast between the T & S mode.

I'm not sure why. I find them to be distinctly different. And because of that, they serve distinctly different missions. (T mode allows for much better throttle control in sloppy weather and\or poor road conditions. But for that same reason, S mode is far more appropriate for normal riding conditions)

I do imagine the differences would be far more subtle if you were to make the comparison while hammering the throttle in both modes.

Regardless, as others have stated, a test drive in T mode would leave a lot on the table in my mind.

But since both test rides were very short, in my opinion you couldn't have absorbed nearly enouph of either bike to make more than a "surface observation". In fact, you will find on this forum that one of the most common statements made is how much more the S10 is appreciated AFTER putting a few THOUSAND miles on it.

Many bikes are just the opposite.






iPad - TapaTalk HD
 

Rasher

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snakebitten said:
More than 1 S10'er has stated they don't feel much contrast between the T & S mode.

I'm not sure why. I find them to be distinctly different. And because of that, they serve distinctly different missions. (T mode allows for much better throttle control in sloppy weather and\or poor road conditions. But for that same reason, S mode is far more appropriate for normal riding conditions)

I do imagine the differences would be far more subtle if you were to make the comparison while hammering the throttle in both modes.

Regardless, as others have stated, a test drive in T mode would leave a lot on the table in my mind.
I would imagine a quick thrash would maybe not show up the difference as much of it is down to the throttle response (mapping of throttle to wrist movement at smaller openings being much greater)

I would also guess if you were to ride very gently it may also mask the symptom, I find the T-Mode feels awful on winding roads, but OK in traffic where you don't really get to open it up much, it also seems OK on the motorway as I think in top gear at speed the difference is also smaller.
 

GrahamD

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Rasher said:
I find the T-Mode feels awful on winding roads, but OK in traffic where you don't really get to open it up much, it also seems OK on the motorway as I think in top gear at speed the difference is also smaller.
+1. T mode really stuffs up my timing when I am doing lot's of tightish turns, other than that it's not a big prob. Great in the rough though.
 

snakebitten

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GrahamD said:
+1. .............when I am doing lot's of tightish turns,.........
Braggert. :)

Yes, you live in the land of S mode roads. I miss them so.
 

bikerdoc

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I realise this topic hasn't been posted into for >6 months, but...

I think that the comparison needed to really be done riding the bikes back to back, for substantially longer periods of time (hours rather than minutes) with many more miles/kilometres over a much more broader range of riding surfaces. One would also need to use all the different settings and electronic aids to get a real world sense of both the bikes true abilities, and more importantly a feel for just how easy it is to use such aids. Only then will you get a sense of what bikes suits your riding sensibilities and riding style.

Funny thing is though that any one of these bikes and others in the category will alter and shape ones riding experience. As an example...

Like a Porsche 944 turbo I was lucky enough to have offered to me to test drive for 3-4 days many years ago, I was looking at purchasing at a dealership in NZ. I stepped out of my Toyota 4x4 (one of 5 I had that I drove as intended on all manner of surfaces at the time, aside from several motorcycles and a 1967 Pontiac Parisienne 4 door pillarless), into that sweet Porsche and completed some several thousand kilometres driving all around the North island of NZ. I was fortunate that as a firefighter at the time, I had 4 days off (4-on, 4-off). I really like that car and was seriously tempted to buy it, hence the long term test drive, from Continental Cars in Newmarket (high end care dealer). Two discoveries I made in that time with the 944 though, were two-fold. One was the deceptively fast speed the 944 could reach (pulled out from behind a queue of traffic travelling East between New Plymouth towards Hamilton (at the time two provincial towns in NZ), and passed the dozen vehicles as though they weren't moving at all, then after several minutes and using my 11 second mirror scan technique noted a swiftly approaching police car in the rear view mirror of the 944. Checking my speed I was well over the open road speed limit by some 40%. The police vehicle was some distance back (was not using lights or siren) so I slowed in a controlled and deliberate fashion, as the police vehicle got closer and closer over the span of several minutes. It was evident that the police officer(s) inside the vehicle had seen me at some point, although I had not seen them (and my radar detector had not triggered). Eventually the police vehicle was behind the 944 and continued to stay there for what seemed like an eternity. I by then was driving some 10-15% above the limit, I mean I was being realistic about it all, I was in a 944 turbo, so had to keep it real. I was expecting to be lit up at any moment, but that moment never came. Eventually the road widened into a bi-directional two lane with passing lanes in each direction, where over a minute or two, the police vehicle pulled alongside, stayed with me for a brief time before pulling ahead. By then my heart rate was back down to around normal. That was the first realisation that this sweet ride, a real drivers car, was also a fast way to a lost license. Strike one.

The second realisation I had early on, was my realisation that all the off road tracks and less than ideal roads that I would have not had any second thoughts about had I been in one of my 4x4's, were suddenly off limits. That for me was the biggest kicker. Fast forward to today and my life path now, and I feel similarly with my maxi scooters I really luv riding (2 Burgman Executive 650's (2003 & 2007), and Jetmax). Great for most of my riding, most of the time, but do limit my ability to go places the S10/XT12 can. Strike two.

Ironically the 944 was very economical on that trip, but I could exactly roll out my sleeping bag in the back of it like I could one of my 4x4, nor explore any hidden, potential camp sites off road. Strike three.

The only way to really know something/someone, is spend time with it/them.

Just sayin...
 

thfraser

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Bikderdoc, thanks for posting to this thread.

I like this thread as I came from a Tiger1050 (now sold) and a still own a Triumph Sprint ST (01) model.

Some notes, the S10 can indeed go more places than the Tiger1050, without question. I absolutely dig the Triumph Triple motors, but have come to truly appreciate the engine on the S10. It does have a pulsey feel to it. It pulls nicely (and I'm currently using TC1, S, and Clutch mod for my daily riding). It will ever get up and go as quickly as the Tiger1050, it's not built that way. But my Tiger didn't have the ABS and TCS either. And wow, what a nice system that is.

Suspension on the S10, out of the box, is better. It just does a better overall job.

I haven't ridden the new Explorer, but I'm pretty much done with Triumphs for the time being. I'm truly frustrated with the lack of a good dealer infrastructure. They are costly to maintain and finding a good dealer within a reasonable distance was tough for me. I like the ability to get parts locally. I have two Yamaha dealers that are local. I also like the low maintence characteristics of the S10. I will be saving a ton of money due that that alone.
 

Rasher

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A mate of mine just tested the Tenere and Explorer back to back.

He liked them both a lot, but coming off a Jap four found the Triumph motor more exciting, and then then when it came to deal time a brand new Explorer was less money than the Ex Demo Yamaha - and about £1500 cheaper than a new Yamaha.

The Yamaha is a great long term ownership proposition, but this will never show up on a test ride, the zippy performance and sharp steering of the Triumph will always impress on a short ride - maybe less so in terrible conditions, fierce side winds and on loose ground, but during that 30 minute ride around the block from the dealer the Yamaha will not shine.

It has Traction Control ABS and Cruise Control so spec wise stacks up quite well, and with a 3 cylinder motor just seems to provide much better value than the Yamaha.

Until someone in Japan wakes up and prices the Yamaha below BMW / Triumph money tehy are gonna continue to sell slow, all the delaers I have spoken to say the same, they can only shift Ex Dem Tenere's, so that is one bike per dealer per year.

Come on Mr Yamaha stop trying to ::002:: and price the bike where it will sell, regardless of how much better Yamaha think the Tenere is compared to a GS, the buying public still regard (wrongly or very wrongly. or extremely wrongly) the BMW to be a premium product, and the Yamaha just to be a Jap bike - and all the other Jap bikes are cheaper.
 

thfraser

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That's interesting. Here, across the pond in the states, the Explorer ($15,699) is about $900 US more than than the S10 ($14,790). And I can find the S10 here discounted by about 2k on a routine basis. It's a little harder to find a discounted Triumph, unless it's leftover stock.
 
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