Ethanol Fuel Standards

[Scoobynut]

The specific concern with Ethanol (aside from reduced fuel economy, the fact that it's not carbon neutral during production, and places price competition on a food crop) is Phase Separation. After about 45 days or so, depending on the humidity, the ethanol in blended fuel will have absorbed water to the point where it separates from the gasoline itself. At this point the Ethanol starts to vigorously attack rubber components throughout the fuel system.

It only takes about 2-3 teaspoons of water in a gallon of gas to cause phase separation, so it's a very real problem for vehicles that are infrequently used, or fuel that's stored for long periods in metal tanks.

Kevin

^
This. Even if this weren't the case, I would still continue my personal boycott of the stuff. I only use non-ethanol in all my vehicles.

 

[markjenn]

In Cali where I live they can put up to E15 in the pump and not even post it.

This contradicts everything I've read about E15 in CA which says E15 is CARB-prohibited and not currently sold. Have a source?

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/news/12-11-09/California_Air_Resources_Board_says_E15_ethanol-gas_blend_won_t_appear_in_California_for_years.aspx

- Mark

 

[merchant]

Here is another good one, just to add to your link...... http://pure-gas.org/

Don't see any around DFW. :-[

 

[kmac]

This contradicts everything I've read about E15 in CA which says E15 is CARB-prohibited and not currently sold. Have a source?

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/news/12-11-09/California_Air_Resources_Board_says_E15_ethanol-gas_blend_won_t_appear_in_California_for_years.aspx

- Mark

http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/faq.htm

Since that article the oxygenation level has gone up. My local gas station tells me it is no longer 10% but up to 15% without even notifying. It falls under their "oxygenation" clause. It varies summer to winter some but that is a lot of alcohol.

Our gas evaporates so fast it is not even funny now days. I put about 8 oz. in an open can in my garage a few weeks ago to see how fast it evaporated and in 6 days it was half gone and in 18 it was just greasy inside that can. It got more and more amber colored day by day.

 

[kmac]

Mark, not arguing with you or the article you linked, but that is for fuel labeled E15...they do not even have to label it that here.

The other support to my claim is that if you look at the posted pure gas links there are only 2 places in southern cali that you can get pure gas, one is in blythe which is for boats on the river and the other is VP racing fuels in San Diego and is not pump dispensed as far as I know. It is sold in drums and says "racing use only-not for street use" and until recently was even leaded....but I heard that has since changed. And then if you price VP100 you will not be running it for daily use....big money. Varies but it has been $10 per gallon at times.
That shows right there that E10 is all we can get usually and E15 is allowed no matter what they are telling the AMA....welcome to California where we don't have to tell you anything and even when we do tell you...it's not likely true.

 

[snakebitten]

If it makes you feel any better, the dang oil comes out of the ground right where I live. My 30 mile daily commute is lined on both side with rigs.

And yet, it couldn't be harder to find non-ethanol gas than it is here.

Don't know if we are shipping the oil to corn states, or shipping the corn to oil states. But they meet up somewhere before the truck dumps into the tanks.

 

[kmac]

Snake, if it makes you feel any better, most oil it turned into gasoline right here in so cal and most foreign oil gets shipped right here to so cal yet we have the highest fuel cost anywhere in the country on average....must be all that long haul shipping from Wilmington/Torrance/Carson all the way to Lake Elsinore..... :'(

 

[markjenn]

Since that article the oxygenation level has gone up. My local gas station tells me it is no longer 10% but up to 15% without even notifying. It falls under their "oxygenation" clause. It varies summer to winter some but that is a lot of alcohol.

You're a long ways from showing anything that indicates any gasoline sold in CA is E15 or that any station can sell E15 without notification. Everything I've read says that E15 use is extremely limited right now (only a few mid-western states) and has to be very clearly marked on the pump. And CA specifically has not approved any E15 use whatsoever.

- Mark

 

[coastie]

For once, the EPA is actually doing something beneficial to society. They are proposing an easing to ethanol standards in gasoline. As most are aware, ethanol is harmful long term to motorcycle engines (as well as any engine designed to run on straight gasoline - lawnmowers/chainsaws/etc.).

I encourage all to submit a comment to the EPA suggesting a repeal of any/all ethanol standards. I am no expert on this issue, but feel strongly that society as a whole would benefit if corn resumed it's proper place on our dinner tables instead of in our tanks.

http://www.americanmotorcyclist.com/Rights/IssuesLegislationOld.aspx

Edmunds republished this in September of 2013. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/controversial-e15-fuel-blend-is-on-the-way.html

 

[markjenn]

Edmunds republished this in September of 2013. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/controversial-e15-fuel-blend-is-on-the-way.html

This is a good, balanced discussion of the issues surrounding E15. Back to the CA E15 question, here is what is says: "In some states, California prime among them, tight fuel standards aimed at reducing emissions including pollution from evaporation emissions will prohibit E15 altogether. One of California's top clean-air regulators has said it would take several more years of study and testing before the state's Air Resources Board could decide whether to approve E15 for use."

Assuming you are paying attention to the pump labels in a few mid-western states, E15 is a theoretical problem at the moment. It sounds like the agri fuel lobby is meeting more resistance on this as time goes on and hopefully it never comes to pass that is makes it into wider use.

- Mark