CPap and camping..my solution

[offcamber]

I posted this on Advrider but thought I would share here as well...

Background...

I have severe sleep apnea...basically what that means is I need a fairly high pressure to allow me to sleep properly and I can't sleep without my machine. This put a real damper on motorcycle travel as I always needed to find someplace that had power. The machine also takes up precious cargo space.

I started looking for compact Cpap machine and batteries to power it. Most Cpap machine will run on 12V. There are some light battery solutions that are expensive and require a special charger.. Others that could be charged directly off 12v were very heavy and also expensive.


My Solution:
I also discovered for me I could not buy a compact "travel" Cpap machine....my prescription (yes you actually need a prescription to buy a CPap machine) was for a Bi-Pap machine,,,,basically its more sophisticated and it will change the air pressure as you breath. So I was back to looking at my current machine. I discovered the humidifier detaches very easily and when gone not only gets rid of a lot bulk the unit uses a lot less power.

Cross referencing power requirements and batteries I decided to try a 7.5 Amp Hour sealed led acid battery (gelcell) powering the Bi-Pap directly. This was easily done by making a pigtail with the correct plug for my machine.

First test result was very positive the I slept for a good 7 hours and the machine was still running when I woke up. I checked the battery and it still showed 12.3 volts....so it still had some power left.

The battery is only 6x 3.75 x2.5" and cost about $20. The weight isn't to bad around 5lbs I would guess. The plan is to make another pigtail that will connect to the bikes battery and charge it while I ride. a two hour ride should charge the battery back to full capacity. The whole set up will fit in the bag that my biPap machine came in if I remove the humidifier.

Considering Cpap battery setups run $250 and up I think this is a very economical and simple solution.

Side Note: I thought of running the power directly off the bikes battery and if my bike ( Super Tenere) wasn't so dependent on the battery to start ( no pop starting) I would have done this. If you have a bike like a KLR that can be easily started with a dead battery that would be a simpler solution.

I hope this helps someone who may be in a similar situation. I am going to continue to test this a few more times before I use it on a trip.

 

[HDFlyer76]

As another BiPap user this is interesting information. What is the make and model of the battery that you found? I have always stayed in hotels since I had to count on power. Camping would be nice, but I have always assumed that it was not an option. Also, interested to hear how your Tenere does on charging the battery after its use.

Thanks for your efforts on this. You are not alone with your BiPap issues.

 

[Twisties]

Yeah, you do have to make sure about your machine's requirements. Some take 24 V in a plug that looks like it would be for 12 V. I have been using a 10.5 or 12 amp hour battery long enough that I am now on my second. This is a standard sealed 12 V lead acid battery from any of the battery stores. I did try a more expensive 7.8 amp-hour lithium ion job from a cpap supply house, and although the power draw for my machine calculates out within capacity, I only got 5 hours out of it.... not enough. They accepted return, checked the unit, and said it was fine. So I went back to lead-acid.

I have tried charging while riding using a standard battery charger, like what you would use to maintain a battery, and a 140 W inverter. The inverter is plugged into the power outlet of the Super Tenere and the charger is plugged into the inverter. It shows charging, but does not actually seem to charge.

Yeah, I know... this is stupid... why not use the bike's charging system. My electrical friend (installs building systems security, HVAC control, spohisticated stuff) says yes, my other electrical friend (electrical engineer) says it should work, but when he tried it, it did not. They sell sophisticated systems for this for RV's. Apparently it takes some doing.

Like others, I haven't been willing to risk flattening the bike battery to run directly off of it... but in theory it should work, so long as your ride plenty the net day to recharge it.

You can find a calculator at cpap.com to get an idea how much current your machine will use with your settings. You will need an appropriate set of wiring and connectors. Several outlets will sell a cord for your machine. I get a battery with spade lugs, and fit spade lugs on an sae cord (battery charger cord). My bipap's cord ends in a cigarette lighter male, so I have another sae cord to cigarette lighter female.

Bottom line for me is that I typically camp one night and then get a room the next and recharge. The 12 amp hour battery will go two nights, but I prefer not to draw it down so deeply.

All in all, yep, it's pretty much a side case full with all the bipap, hose and mask, the standard wall outlet power supply for hotel use, battery, inverter, charger, and cables. Still, it can be done and you would make up the cost in one to two night's use.

My biggest problem now is condensation in my hose and mask on cool nights. Yuck!

 

[Twisties]

By the way, do not use LIPO4FE (Shorai) battery for this. They don't have the amp hour reserve... what they have is lots of peak power for starting... it's different. LI Ion or lead acid are your battery choices.

 

[Simon]

I have a resmed cpap machine and use a motobatt agm 12ah battery, resmed sell a 'black box' that prevents total discharge of the battery to prolong life, i get two nights use, then i usually find the friendly campsite owner to recharge it for me! Did 10 nights on the Isle of Man at the TT races like that. Have been looking at solar panels for recharging, not defined the exact solution yet though.

 

[Twisties]

I have a resmed cpap machine and use a motobatt agm 12ah battery, resmed sell a 'black box' that prevents total discharge of the battery to prolong life, i get two nights use, then i usually find the friendly campsite owner to recharge it for me! Did 10 nights on the Isle of Man at the TT races like that. Have been looking at solar panels for recharging, not defined the exact solution yet though.

Yes, in a paid campground there is usually a place to recharge, assuming you can not actually get a spot with live power to begin with. I have run into two issues:

1. I had one allow me to charge it in their office, but they didn't mention the office closed early. Getting it back for the night proved rather problematic.

2. Security. Sometimes it's a public area, like a laundry, bathroom, or public charging area at a rally, and I am leery of leaving it unattended all day. So far no actual issues, thankfully, but I worry, and I don't like that stress.

In the end, for the price of paid commercial camping these days, often north of $30/nt, I would rather camp off in the boonies for free or $12 at a park, and find a cheap motel every other night or every third night. Just me, I know

 

[Don in Lodi]

We have several travel trailers coming in, looks like a day charge shouldn't be a problem. I was planning on toughing it out, but I think I'll look at the battery route again

 

[offcamber]

I really can't see why the battery would not charge off the bikes electrical system....but I guess I'll find out. The whole point of the experiment was to try and minimize the amount of stuff I needed to haul to make it work. Unfortunately there isn't always power to charge the batteries available.

Someone on advrider suggested the Shorai batteries, they are light but I figured they were set up to start bikes and not run stuff for a long time. The battery I used was for a UPS that you would use to keep your computer running during a power failure. They are designed for a lower draw over a longer time.

You definitely need to know you machines power requirements....while many machines run on 12v some don't.

There are many answers to this problem, everyone has their own priorities.

 

[offcamber]

As another BiPap user this is interesting information. What is the make and model of the battery that you found? I have always stayed in hotels since I had to count on power. Camping would be nice, but I have always assumed that it was not an option. Also, interested to hear how your Tenere does on charging the battery after its use.

Thanks for your efforts on this. You are not alone with your BiPap issues.

PM Battery

PM1270F2

I borrowed it from work as we go through a lot of UPS batteries so there are always a few new ones in the shop.....when I'm done testing it I need to return it.

However you can get all kinds of batteries online....look for UPS replacement batteries not bike (starting) batteries.

 

[TommyBwell]

Good idea. I'll have to give it a try. I have been thinking about checking out the dental appliance route but never have.

 

[Brick]

I'm new to the C-Pap... Well actually mine is a Bi-Pap machine and I have Central apnea. Have only had it a couple of months and only used it twice away from home. One motel one in a friends home.
I have thought about camping a bit rid year but had NO idea how to do it. I'll be watching this thread to learn.


Brick

 

[offcamber]

Y

I have tried charging while riding using a standard battery charger, like what you would use to maintain a battery, and a 140 W inverter. The inverter is plugged into the power outlet of the Super Tenere and the charger is plugged into the inverter. It shows charging, but does not actually seem to charge.

Yeah, I know... this is stupid... why not use the bike's charging system. My electrical friend (installs building systems security, HVAC control, spohisticated stuff) says yes, my other electrical friend (electrical engineer) says it should work, but when he tried it, it did not. They sell sophisticated systems for this for RV's. Apparently it takes some doing.

I was thinking about this and I think I know why your setup didn't work. I think it was the type of inverter you used. If you had an inverter that uses a Modified Sine Wave as opposed to a true sine wave this may have been your problem. Some modern electronics do not like MSW inverters. MSW inverters are great for simple AC appliances like a light or a DC motor. However many electronics will not operate correctly. I'm guessing your charger didn't like the MSW inverter you were using. MSW inverters are cheaper and generally use less power so they are more common.

 

[Siseneg]

Could be that the power outlet just won't handle the 140w load (pushing 10Amps?). I wonder if connecting the CPAP battery directly in parallel with the bikes battery would cause too much of a charge load on the alternator, but it seems the best way to achieve the charge is short order. Somebody could put the math to it I suppose.

 

[offcamber]

Could be that the power outlet just won't handle the 140w load (pushing 10Amps?). I wonder if connecting the CPAP battery directly in parallel with the bikes battery would cause too much of a charge load on the alternator, but it seems the best way to achieve the charge is short order. Somebody could put the math to it I suppose.

I would think the S10s electrical systems should be up to the task assuming your not running every electrical farkle you have (heated gear, aux lights, heated grips etc...) A small battery should recharge in just a few hours. I'm not an electircal engineer I know just enough to be dangerous. Perhaps someone could run the numbers. I'm going to check with one of the engineers here at work and see if they can shed more light on the issue.

 

[Twisties]

Good point about the inverter. The same inverter powered a different charger just fine in my truck. Long story about the chargers... I need to find the same one and see if it works. Still, has to be considerably faster and more efficient to go straight off the bike without involving two lossy, large and heavy pieces of kit...

So what my first electrical friend said was to just hook the battery directly to the bike battery with an sae (battery charger) cable. I believe I did try that without success, but it might just have my second friend's attempt... been a while...

 

[Twisties]

Could be that the power outlet just won't handle the 140w load (pushing 10Amps?). I wonder if connecting the CPAP battery directly in parallel with the bikes battery would cause too much of a charge load on the alternator, but it seems the best way to achieve the charge is short order. Somebody could put the math to it I suppose.

I was thinking that if the fuse doesn't blow, the inverter and charger system would draw what they wanted until a voltage drop occurred and the inverter or charger shut down. I think the alternator should be able to supply the required current at highway speeds. Not sure about more varied riding conditions. But I did try it on several long days of highway riding without success.

 

[klunsford]

Thanks for all of the good information. I to have a CPAP and would love to start camping away from a power source and extension cord.

 

[HoebSTer]

I am also in the Cpap dilema for camping. I have wondered if the bike would be drawn down too low over night. NWCajun from here has also carried a small battery. I really don't want to carry an extra battery.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Now come on guys, you can't run the inverter/charger off the same battery you're trying to charge... ::010::

::017::

 

[offcamber]

Now come on guys, you can't run the inverter/charger off the same battery you're trying to charge... ::010::

::017::

Make it work and you could solve the worlds energy problems...the perpetual power....