Clutch basket anti-vibration modifications

[Yamaguy55]

There is an independent project going on between a few of us, not affiliated with any other concurrent projects, to resolve the clutch basket induced vibration issue. I should be able to give a good test and a report back by early next week at the latest. My particular bike and my increasing sensitivity to vibration has made this a must do for me. Not that many years ago, I wasn't bothered by the vibration of big singles, that is no longer true.

So as soon as I can get enough miles on our scheme, we'll let you know. I don't want to be premature and report something that can't be replicated, or is a partial fix.

If this works as I'm guessing it will, it will correct one of the oversights in an otherwise great design. Stay tuned.....

 

[Karson]

::017::

::003:: - For yamaguy ::008::

 

[Yamaguy55]

::017::

you need a ::003:: with your ::017::

 

[avc8130]

We have a clutch basket induced vibration?

ac

 

[Yamaguy55]

We have a clutch basket induced vibration?

ac

I do....

 

[avc8130]

I'm intrigued. I've felt that over the past 26k miles my bike has gotten more "vibey", but others claim theirs have smoothed out.

Talk to me. Explain to me the problem we might have.

ac

 

[Yamaguy55]

Here's the saga:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7606.0

A few of us are attempting this at home. Mine was first up in our group, it is in transit back to me right now. I should have it back and installed by the weekend. (It is going to rain tomorrow and Friday anyway, so the weekend is fine.)

Yes, parts of the felt vibration have smoothed out as the engine broke in, but others have gotten worse. This isn't the only thing that causes vibration, but is certainly a contributing factor. read the other thread. Basically, the clutch induces an out of balance situation in phase with the engine power pulses, and has a sort of amplifying effect.

If the modification made works like we think it will, I'll be one happy guy. It was done as robust as we could, and it should outlast me. We'll see. I'll not promise until I can deliver.

 

[rotortech71]

^^^ Page 11 of that thread, watch Sharealike's video he posted. It explains it perfectly.

 

[Ironhand]

Oh no...I'm having flashbacks to the Vstrom forum conversations about "chudder."

 

[avc8130]

Here's the saga:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7606.0

A few of us are attempting this at home. Mine was first up in our group, it is in transit back to me right now. I should have it back and installed by the weekend. (It is going to rain tomorrow and Friday anyway, so the weekend is fine.)

Yes, parts of the felt vibration have smoothed out as the engine broke in, but others have gotten worse. This isn't the only thing that causes vibration, but is certainly a contributing factor. read the other thread. Basically, the clutch induces an out of balance situation in phase with the engine power pulses, and has a sort of amplifying effect.

If the modification made works like we think it will, I'll be one happy guy. It was done as robust as we could, and it should outlast me. We'll see. I'll not promise until I can deliver.

Wow! Thanks for bringing my attention to that link. I generally ignore all posts about "vibrations" because most seem to be whiny and complainy. This actually has technical merit and content! Here goes an hour.

ac

 

[scott123007]

Here's the saga:

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7606.0

A few of us are attempting this at home.

As long as you're not pounding 1/4" washers behind the torsion springs in the basket, I'm all ears.

There was a war going on a couple of years ago on the V-Strom forum between Sharealike (UK) who correctly diagnosed the clutch issue and modified it correctly, and RealShelby (USA) who forced washers behind the torsion springs in ghe clutch basket and then welded holders in place. There was a lot of predudice as to who had the better fix, but it had more to do with country of origin than anything. Anyway, RealShelby finally came to his senses and copied Sharealike's fix.

 

[Yamaguy55]

As long as you're not pounding 1/4" washers behind the torsion springs in the basket, I'm all ears.

We're using 3/8 inch washers.... 8)

No, much more professional than that. Upon receipt of basket, reinstallation and test, we'll bring everyone up to date.

The point of the post is that there is more than one group doing this.

We are aware of other factors. Such as fueling, which is the cold day/hot day thing. That "raspy" power delivery has been present in all of my FI street bikes recently, no doubt a result of emission compliance. The only one that has escaped is my WR250R.

We're also aware that a 270 degree 1200cc twin isn't going to be an electric motor smooth engine. However, this vibration I'm referring to that can be alleviated by "feathering" the clutch, has become more and more obvious to me. I thought it was just me at first, and when I saw the other thread, I had a eureka! moment. I'm finally tired enough of numb hands to take the plunge.

If you were to disassemble the clutch, you can see what is doing what. We're after a robust fix that is repeatable, and relatively easy to do. Good engineering is simple engineering. (not the concept of "why use one part when 100 will do?") So let us see how we've done. We just started this two weeks ago.

I think Sharealike is on the right track, and has brought his considerable expertise to bear on this. It is hard to argue with success.

However, there is always another game in town. We wanted to see if we could come up with a fix. The prototype is complete and we're going to be sure it is as advertised. Like I said previously, stay tuned. This isn't a trade secret or a marketing teaser. It is letting you know of a different group's efforts, plus making sure bad info doesn't take a lap around the planet before we prove what we're saying.

I'll post my findings as soon as I'm sure I have something useful to report. If it fails, it fails. I'll report that too.

 

[Red dust]

You are a legend, even if it is not going to fix the problem to 100% at least you tried and any decrease in vibration is welcome.
Too many owners got this issue to be ignored, thanks buddy for your testing!

 

[Yamaguy55]

You are a legend, even if it is not going to fix the problem to 100% at least you tried and any decrease in vibration is welcome.
Too many owners got this issue to be ignored, thanks buddy for your testing!

No, I'm an old goat with an expensive bike he likes and vibration that is becoming unpleasant. And a willing accomplice who has access to a machine shop. If you really think about it, there are very few problems that can't be resolved, at least to some degree.

The real problem with vibration is that everyone is affected differently, so it is very personal. The whole "don't worry about it" is fine for someone that it doesn't bother. I'm not one of them.

 

[Red dust]

So true, we are all different. Think old age can make you more sensitive (talking about myself) having said that many other bikes I have ridden does not have this much vibes and I have to say it again that I believed this bike being an adventure "touring" bike so you kind of expect it to be good for long trips without too many annoying issues. Same story for wind screens, it is hard to understand that some owners of the V-Strom & the XT1200 like the screen and do not have any issues with buffeting but I accept it and I`m truly happy for those owners, once again we are all different.
What I personally really think is fantastic with this bike is the seat but coming from a DL650 I suppose anything is better.

Our problems are real even if it is difficult for others to understand and yes it does feel good to whine a bit but also try to rectify the issues which can be costly but it is even more costly to trade the beast in for something else.

Thanks again for trying to resolve the vibration issue!

 

[Koinz]

Here's the saga:

A few of us are attempting this at home. Mine was first up in our group, it is in transit back to me right now. I should have it back and installed by the weekend. (It is going to rain tomorrow and Friday anyway, so the weekend is fine.)

Hey Yamaguy, You have my attention. The vibes on mine are there, but don't reaally bother me as I try to ride in the higher RPM's unless I'm just cruising along. Looking forward to hearing how well it worked for you. 8)

 

[Yamaguy55]

I should know one way or the other after the weekend. Long term test to follow. As you know, we're running out of test ride weather in this area. Once the salt is down, I'm done until spring.

BTW: this actually has been done on several fronts by several individuals/groups. We're merely trying what we feel is a refined, simplified version. For all I know, we're goons. (actually, we are no doubt goons. The question is if we're skilled, effective goons.)

 

[Yamaguy55]

Modified clutch reinstalled this morning. I managed to get in a reasonable test ride in spite of car accident-related re-routes, pending rain, out of state lost types on narrow back roads.

Here's the first impression, with additional info:
- Background: some people have replaced the clutch basket, and it has been ok for about 500 miles, until it too loosened up, and started the vibe thing all over again.
- The test conditions were 50F, overcast, damp roads.
- I can no longer "feather" the clutch and reduce vibration as before, so that part is definitely different.
- What remains is engine character and fueling/ECU program.
- The end result is that while there is some vibration, it is nothing like it was before we started this project. Before, just cruising around in top gear at the lower speed limits we have around here on back roads, my hands would be numb in short order.
- Today's route is my "test track" so to speak, and I rode the whole thing with only a tiny bit of bother to my hands, so my seat of the pants/hands on the grips impression is that I've eliminated about 60-80% of all felt vibration at the typical mild throttle openings common during normal riding. Staying hard on the throttle is a different category, and that isn't what my difficulty was. It is better there as well.
- An unexpected side effect is that sometimes my gearbox was somewhat "notchy" in shifting, and that seems to be greatly reduced. Why? Who knows....

Bottom line: until someone makes a redesigned clutch basket will all of the fixes done as a set, I'd say this is a worthwhile modification.

More road testing coming as weather and time allow. We'll see if the fix stays fixed.

Stay tuned.......

 

[Koinz]

Sounds promising. Curious, how many miles on yours now?

 

[Yamaguy55]

Sounds promising. Curious, how many miles on yours now?

Not that many. This hasn't been my riding year. I think I may be at 6500 total, maybe 500 this year. Sad, huh? Between work, several family health problems, funerals and weather, not much time to ride since last season. I have the WRR as well, which has been the bike this year by far as some associates ended up with dual sports. The vibration thing didn't help, it got annoying enough that the Tenere sat from that alone. I seriously considered trading it before I went with the "try to fix it first" route. As you may remember, I have a company vehicle, so I only use it for work, no commute/work miles ever on the bikes. (company policy)

It does seem very promising. I plan on more miles soon to prove repeatability. If this continues as I hope, it should greatly improve my enjoyment of the bike. I went out again this afternoon, it is still as it was this morning. The shifting improved as well. Amazing.

Those roads over by 339 are a great destination