Steve_h80
Member
Except the sodding left buttomn... ::002::
Choosing between a BMW GS(A) and a Super T....
- Thread starter Ron Earp
- Start date
Kinda like a Caterpillar 'dozer. ::008::Ron Earp said:
decooney
Member
I rode a brand new R1200GS water cooled bike for four days straight on a winding coastal trip before deciding between the two. While I liked the bike quite a bit and it sort of grew on me, when I came back I rode the Tenere ES again... the S10 felt more planted and confidence inspiring on rough twisty mountain roads. The Tenere' seems big like the beemer when you look at it, but when you start rolling and turning the super tenere just seems to feel smaller and rides smaller on the road. Maybe it's yamaha sport bike DNA and the low center of gravity...it's a real nice road bike and I don't mind pushing the beast at a good pace on rough back roads and such, follows a nice line and it's super predictable.Spork said:
shrekonwheels
New Member
Planning on racing them or something?Spork said:
Spork
Member
I think I could have been a bit more descriptive. I meant to say that the Bmw is a well rounded and refined machine. Yamaha is well built but I think still needs a bit more time to really become the polished machine the gsa has become. Gen 2 is almost there but I think it needs a little more distinction and personality.shrekonwheels said:
frez
New Member
Yeah, a beak would make all the difference 
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
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I currently have a '12 Super Ten and a '16 GSA Low suspension/Low seat bike in the garage. The GSA is the wife's bike, having come off a BMW F650GS after 100k+ on the little bike.
I've ridden both, the GSA has 10k on it now, nearly all by the wife. The GSA is feature rich compared to either generation of Super Tenere, but it really doesn't do anything for me. Power is ok, but unimpressive. Braking is very good, but comparable to the Super Ten, not better. There are a lot more bells and whistles, modes, computer features, etc on the GSA. After almost four months of riding, the wife rarely uses any of them except changing modes from street to rain, and changing to enduro pro when going off pavement. These mode changes make a significant difference in how the bike handles and make it an easier bike to ride in challenging conditions for a rider that desires the extra bit of management/assistance. For example, Enduro Pro raises the suspension almost 2 inches. the wife goes from nearly flat foot to balarina toes when she goes into Enduro Pro mode, but she does it every single time we go off pavement as she feels it really helps her to deal with loose surfaces and uneven terrain.
At $10k premium over the cost of the Super Tenere, the GSA is fully pimped from the get go, including crash bars and luggage. The crash bars suck. They looked decent, but her first drops ground the cylinder heads on both sides. I have some Rumbux in the garage waiting for her to pick a color before they go on.
After our repair experiences with the F650GS, the wife bought an aftermarket extended warranty for the GSA that is unlimited mileage and covers the bike for 10 years. No, it wasn't cheap. But it will likely pay for itself. :-[
I've ridden both, the GSA has 10k on it now, nearly all by the wife. The GSA is feature rich compared to either generation of Super Tenere, but it really doesn't do anything for me. Power is ok, but unimpressive. Braking is very good, but comparable to the Super Ten, not better. There are a lot more bells and whistles, modes, computer features, etc on the GSA. After almost four months of riding, the wife rarely uses any of them except changing modes from street to rain, and changing to enduro pro when going off pavement. These mode changes make a significant difference in how the bike handles and make it an easier bike to ride in challenging conditions for a rider that desires the extra bit of management/assistance. For example, Enduro Pro raises the suspension almost 2 inches. the wife goes from nearly flat foot to balarina toes when she goes into Enduro Pro mode, but she does it every single time we go off pavement as she feels it really helps her to deal with loose surfaces and uneven terrain.
At $10k premium over the cost of the Super Tenere, the GSA is fully pimped from the get go, including crash bars and luggage. The crash bars suck. They looked decent, but her first drops ground the cylinder heads on both sides. I have some Rumbux in the garage waiting for her to pick a color before they go on.
After our repair experiences with the F650GS, the wife bought an aftermarket extended warranty for the GSA that is unlimited mileage and covers the bike for 10 years. No, it wasn't cheap. But it will likely pay for itself. :-[
You've got the first hand experience to assist folks with the choice, that is for certain.
One aspect of the ST is that one can't compare list Yamaha prices vs BMW list prices. While the new BMW certainly does sell at list price (at least here in Raleigh NC), the Yamaha ST certainly does not seem to sell at list price. So a new ST ES generally seems to sell for a few thousand less than list, at least lately, and a very lightly used one with under 4k miles might be 30% off. When you start comparing like model years, say 2016 ST vs 2016 GSA, the price difference can be very large between the two bikes.
One aspect of the ST is that one can't compare list Yamaha prices vs BMW list prices. While the new BMW certainly does sell at list price (at least here in Raleigh NC), the Yamaha ST certainly does not seem to sell at list price. So a new ST ES generally seems to sell for a few thousand less than list, at least lately, and a very lightly used one with under 4k miles might be 30% off. When you start comparing like model years, say 2016 ST vs 2016 GSA, the price difference can be very large between the two bikes.
Same with UK prices, in the real world a GS of similar spec to an S10 is probably 30% more expensive, many Yamaha's turn up pre-registered which means the dealer registered the bike so it is not in effect "new" but will have not been owned / ridden by anyone and is therefore as good as new but even cheaper making an equivalent BMW closer to 50% more.
In the UK BMW's are never truly discounted and incentives such as low finance or free luggage are quite rare by comparison to the Jap bikes.
In the UK BMW's are never truly discounted and incentives such as low finance or free luggage are quite rare by comparison to the Jap bikes.
HBLQRider
New Member
I ride a Gen 1 ST and have a hard time passing Starbucks. Is that bad? ;D
EricV
Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
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Yes, there is a lot better coffee out there!HBLQRider said:
steve68steve
Active Member
Ron Earp said:
That's interesting.
I test road a brand new GSW when they were first introduced. At the time, the most advanced bike I'd owned was a VStrom, so the electronic everything and general level of sweetness of the BMW was an amazing contrast.
At first, I marveled at how well the bike handled. As I got more and more comfortable, I started taking corners hotter and riding more aggressively. The bike just yawned. It did everything I wanted with hardly any effort at all.
By the end of the test ride, I was a bit soured on the BMW on the grounds that the ride was so smooth, so controlled, so refined, that I felt more like a passenger than a rider. It was akin to "autopilot."
There's something to be said for a bike that has some shortcomings that the rider must learn and overcome with skill and practice. IMO, that makes a ride more fun. I think it's a big part of the appeal of HD.
Now, that said, I've experienced the same thing in a way on the Super Tenere, and it's off pavement. Gravel and dirt rides that I remember being a little hair-raising, exciting, and requiring skill and mastery (and therefor a sense of pride and accomplishment), the S10 just yawns. It's nice to take stark terror down a few pegs, but there's something lost when the machine makes the job TOO easy and we're robbed of our sense of accomplishment - of surmounting a challenge with skill, as opposed to via purchased technology.
Probably way OT, but your post reminded me of the day I stopped lusting after a GS.
Andylaser
Active Member
Reminds me of the FZR1000 I had many years ago. Handled like it was on rails, awesome brakes, did epic stoppies, really easy to ride at licence shredding speeds etc, etc. After 6 months, I was totally bored with it. It was far too predictable and did everything exceptionally well (except comfort).steve68steve said:
I sold it and got a V Max with iffy handling, questionable brakes and lousy range. But my god it was fun to ride.
As you know, I ended up with a Super T. I quickly penned a review for another forum I post on and figured I might as well post here. Wasn't sure where to put it, so putting it where I started seemed appropriate.
---
Yamaha’s Super Tenere ES is a bike that is difficult to pigeonhole into any one particular genre of two-wheeled transportation. Touring – check. Off-road – check. Spirited riding – check. All-weather capability – check. It’s a versatile machine that can seemingly do it all, however, how it goes about accomplishing that mission is somewhat unique.
Design. The ST ES’s design and styling is, well, distinctive. Adjectives that come to mind are: industrial, purposeful, and possibly even a bit awkward. It’s a bit like that kid in your graduating class who didn’t standout in any particularly good or bad fashion, but ten years later you found out he’s a doctor and made out well in the medical device industry. No one particular bit of the ST ES catches your eye. It doesn’t draw attention to itself, it isn’t sexy, but the various subassemblies work together in a way to create a bike that is more than competent. Super, now that might be a bit of a stretch but Yamaha wants you to think so.
Ergonomics might should be considered with design but with the ST ES the ergonomics are far less ambiguous, in fact, the ergonomics are fantastic. The seating position is all-day-ass friendly, very upright providing for good visibility. The bars are nice and wide with properly located switchgear that performs exactly as you’d expect, more so even, as they’re a considerably large step up from what is normally found on motorcycles. The seat is reasonably comfortable for both riders and the peg relationship is about perfect for me as a 5’9” rider with the seat in the low position. Moving to other user friendly features, the LCD display is bright, clear, and provides all the information you’d want from a modern motorcycle – speedo, tach, fuel gauge, various MPG metrics, distances to empty, time, and status of the options such as the electronic suspension and heated grips. Most all newer machines have gone to LCD displays integrated with warning lights and the ST ES unit is definitely at the top of the heap.
A large part of the allure of riding motorcycles is the engine. After all, m-o-t-o-r is the most prominent part of the noun motorcycle. The sonorous engine note of the 1200cc Yamaha parallel twin invites riders to explore the upper regions of the RPM band to experience the aura pleasure the engine delivers. Said no one, ever.
Look, this engine gets the job done, no doubt about that. It pulls strongly from low RPM with no shuddering that affects other far more expensive twins I’ve sampled that have poorer ECU mapping. In the midrange the engine becomes even stronger, and at the upper parts of the RPM range, 6k to 9k, it’ll straighten your arms out and will wheelie in the first two gears. But at least in stock form it doesn’t deliver that memorable engine experience that you’ll never forget. Now, that isn’t such a bad thing though. It has a very linear and predictable power band that makes for smooth transitions, a great riding experience, and with more than ample power to get the job done although the accompanying sound is less than soul stirring. A nice aftermarket pipe will certainly improve the soundtrack for those wanting a bit of a more lively experience.
The ST ES’s suspension is a very functional melding of suspension technology and proper tuning. Many motorcycles have fully adjustable suspensions, nothing new there, but the problem is they’re rarely adjusted. The most expensive shock adjustable shock available is nearly worthless if it isn’t actually adjusted. The suspension on the ST ES is electronically adjusted through a fairly simple menu with pre-programmed settings for single, single with luggage, two up, and two up with luggage. These settings adjust compression and rebound on the front fork along with pre-load and rebound on the rear shock. In addition, each mode is customizable while riding to soft, normal, and hard settings with additional levels changed numerically under those settings thus providing you with 84 different combinations of suspension setup. It works, and works well.
While riding on the highway I was getting a bit more compression and jolting than I liked due to road conditions. A few clicks later I had softened the suspension, taking out some compression, and my ride smoothed out dramatically. Very nice. For smooth roads and a more sporting pace the suspension is easily stiffened and the difference is very pronounced. When I transitioned to fire roads I almost completely softened the suspensions and it made a world of difference in how the bike worked on that terrain. Are you going to manually adjust your suspension for a short section of unimproved road? No, which is why this works so well. Good tech and once experienced it’ll be on your want list.
So how is the handling? Well…..it’s okay for a 575 pound machine with a long wheelbase. I’ve always ridden multipurpose bikes so I won’t even worry about comparing it to a sport bike or cruiser, it’s not nearly as good as one and way better than the other. I have ridden a lot of bikes in this class though. BMG GS, GSA, Triumph Explorer, numerous Tigers, Ducati Multistrada, Buell Ulysses, and a couple of other machines. On a recent 1300 mile trip that included Diamond Back, Tail of the Dragon, and many other top ten motorcycle roads I’d but the SuperT’s handling abilities mid-pack. For the 1200 cc machines I’d rank them in descending order - Ducati Multistrada, Buell Ulysses, BMW GSA/Super T about the same, followed by the Triumph Explorer.
The ST carries its weight well, lowish in the frame in relation to the rest of the bike and once underway you’d think the bike was lighter than the actual weight, much lighter. However weight carries a penalty and it slows the ST transitions a tad when compared to the sharper machines. The long wheelbase and front fork rake adds to the bike’s stability on the highway but will extract a small penalty when the roads get extremely bendy. So it goes. This is a do it all machine that can do it all, to various degrees. It’s still a pleasure to ride on curvy mountain roads but for me to be as fast as I am on the Buell or Ducati requires more hustling on the ST that takes away from the pleasure. Still, your friends on handling biased machines aren’t going to get to the watering hole much, if any, faster than you do.
Brakes shouldn’t be left out of the discussion. The ST’s brakes work well and as such sort of go unnoticed. I do like Yamaha’s front and rear linked braking system but I’m still old school and always use my rear brake, speaking of which, this bike does have a very functional and powerful rear brake which is refreshing. Many motorcycles seem to have a rear brake that is tacked on as an afterthought and not properly sized or pad compounded for the job. Not so here. The ABS seems to work well and I’ve unfortunately had the opportunity to use it in on 45 mph panic stop. I think the ABS saved me from impacting a car that pulled out in front of me or at the least saved me and the bike from going down. No complaints at all with the ABS system although I’m not a serious off-road rider. I know the ABS can’t be turned off without rigging a fuse switch, but I did use the bike on ten miles of fire road, steep at times, and didn’t have a problem with the ABS system. Again, I’m not a serious dirt guy.
Along with that electronic suspension, another feature that you’ll want once you get a taste is cruise control. Yamaha’s implementation of the feature is the best or one of the best in the industry, although I found the new Triumph Explorer system very nice as well. The cruise control switches fall readily to your left thumb, are intuitive, easy to activate and deactivate, so much so that you’ll be using cruise at every opportunity. The cruise system precisely holds the bike at the set speed and any use of the clutch, brake, or on/off cruise switch will deactivate the system. Very nice and just think of all the things you’ll be able to do with your formerly captive right hand. Wouldn’t own a bike without cruise now, spoiled for life.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the ST ES fuel mileage. Cruising on the highway in the 65-69mph range I’d consistently getting 49.5 to 50.5 MPG, checked by hand and via the computer. If the speeds drop just ten miles per hour I can obtain around 52-53 mpg and indeed averaged that with one tank providing a total range just shy of 300 miles before I got scared of the low fuel warning. The EPA ratings on the bike are only around 43 MPG which worried me at first but I am glad that the bike has proven almost as frugal as my Buell Ulysses but with a much larger tank. Good stuff.
Not all is perfect with the ST ES though. The factory Yamaha panniers and top box are crap. Their construction is plastic with metal overlays to look the part, but when you start to use them you find they’re cobbled together. Plastic over-limit straps, lock cylinders that feel permanently gummed up, and a key released box to frame mounting system that will have you releasing the box every time you try and open the lid. Mine have already been sold to on and I took delivery of a proper system from Bumot, although three or four companies make similar products just as good and far better than the Yamaha OEM setup.
Other crap parts that require more or less immediate replacement is the plastic skid plate and crash bars, both of which are basically placeholders for aftermarket pieces of quality. The front windshield needs some additional stability which is easily rectified. Some wiring looms are visible and weren’t neatly packaged and taken care of from the factory, but, one can’t expect Ducati or Triumph type finishing touches for half the money. But these are fairly minor complaints considering the actual selling price for these machines, new, is about half that of its competition.
Super Tenere ES in summary is a fine machine for chewing up highway miles, running switchbacks, unimproved roading, and getting you and your stuff from A to B intact and in relative comfort. It doesn’t have a beak or a European pedigree but I don’t find much lacking with the machine and its lack of the aforementioned characteristics might be two of its best qualities.
---
Yamaha’s Super Tenere ES is a bike that is difficult to pigeonhole into any one particular genre of two-wheeled transportation. Touring – check. Off-road – check. Spirited riding – check. All-weather capability – check. It’s a versatile machine that can seemingly do it all, however, how it goes about accomplishing that mission is somewhat unique.
Design. The ST ES’s design and styling is, well, distinctive. Adjectives that come to mind are: industrial, purposeful, and possibly even a bit awkward. It’s a bit like that kid in your graduating class who didn’t standout in any particularly good or bad fashion, but ten years later you found out he’s a doctor and made out well in the medical device industry. No one particular bit of the ST ES catches your eye. It doesn’t draw attention to itself, it isn’t sexy, but the various subassemblies work together in a way to create a bike that is more than competent. Super, now that might be a bit of a stretch but Yamaha wants you to think so.
Ergonomics might should be considered with design but with the ST ES the ergonomics are far less ambiguous, in fact, the ergonomics are fantastic. The seating position is all-day-ass friendly, very upright providing for good visibility. The bars are nice and wide with properly located switchgear that performs exactly as you’d expect, more so even, as they’re a considerably large step up from what is normally found on motorcycles. The seat is reasonably comfortable for both riders and the peg relationship is about perfect for me as a 5’9” rider with the seat in the low position. Moving to other user friendly features, the LCD display is bright, clear, and provides all the information you’d want from a modern motorcycle – speedo, tach, fuel gauge, various MPG metrics, distances to empty, time, and status of the options such as the electronic suspension and heated grips. Most all newer machines have gone to LCD displays integrated with warning lights and the ST ES unit is definitely at the top of the heap.
A large part of the allure of riding motorcycles is the engine. After all, m-o-t-o-r is the most prominent part of the noun motorcycle. The sonorous engine note of the 1200cc Yamaha parallel twin invites riders to explore the upper regions of the RPM band to experience the aura pleasure the engine delivers. Said no one, ever.
Look, this engine gets the job done, no doubt about that. It pulls strongly from low RPM with no shuddering that affects other far more expensive twins I’ve sampled that have poorer ECU mapping. In the midrange the engine becomes even stronger, and at the upper parts of the RPM range, 6k to 9k, it’ll straighten your arms out and will wheelie in the first two gears. But at least in stock form it doesn’t deliver that memorable engine experience that you’ll never forget. Now, that isn’t such a bad thing though. It has a very linear and predictable power band that makes for smooth transitions, a great riding experience, and with more than ample power to get the job done although the accompanying sound is less than soul stirring. A nice aftermarket pipe will certainly improve the soundtrack for those wanting a bit of a more lively experience.
The ST ES’s suspension is a very functional melding of suspension technology and proper tuning. Many motorcycles have fully adjustable suspensions, nothing new there, but the problem is they’re rarely adjusted. The most expensive shock adjustable shock available is nearly worthless if it isn’t actually adjusted. The suspension on the ST ES is electronically adjusted through a fairly simple menu with pre-programmed settings for single, single with luggage, two up, and two up with luggage. These settings adjust compression and rebound on the front fork along with pre-load and rebound on the rear shock. In addition, each mode is customizable while riding to soft, normal, and hard settings with additional levels changed numerically under those settings thus providing you with 84 different combinations of suspension setup. It works, and works well.
While riding on the highway I was getting a bit more compression and jolting than I liked due to road conditions. A few clicks later I had softened the suspension, taking out some compression, and my ride smoothed out dramatically. Very nice. For smooth roads and a more sporting pace the suspension is easily stiffened and the difference is very pronounced. When I transitioned to fire roads I almost completely softened the suspensions and it made a world of difference in how the bike worked on that terrain. Are you going to manually adjust your suspension for a short section of unimproved road? No, which is why this works so well. Good tech and once experienced it’ll be on your want list.
So how is the handling? Well…..it’s okay for a 575 pound machine with a long wheelbase. I’ve always ridden multipurpose bikes so I won’t even worry about comparing it to a sport bike or cruiser, it’s not nearly as good as one and way better than the other. I have ridden a lot of bikes in this class though. BMG GS, GSA, Triumph Explorer, numerous Tigers, Ducati Multistrada, Buell Ulysses, and a couple of other machines. On a recent 1300 mile trip that included Diamond Back, Tail of the Dragon, and many other top ten motorcycle roads I’d but the SuperT’s handling abilities mid-pack. For the 1200 cc machines I’d rank them in descending order - Ducati Multistrada, Buell Ulysses, BMW GSA/Super T about the same, followed by the Triumph Explorer.
The ST carries its weight well, lowish in the frame in relation to the rest of the bike and once underway you’d think the bike was lighter than the actual weight, much lighter. However weight carries a penalty and it slows the ST transitions a tad when compared to the sharper machines. The long wheelbase and front fork rake adds to the bike’s stability on the highway but will extract a small penalty when the roads get extremely bendy. So it goes. This is a do it all machine that can do it all, to various degrees. It’s still a pleasure to ride on curvy mountain roads but for me to be as fast as I am on the Buell or Ducati requires more hustling on the ST that takes away from the pleasure. Still, your friends on handling biased machines aren’t going to get to the watering hole much, if any, faster than you do.
Brakes shouldn’t be left out of the discussion. The ST’s brakes work well and as such sort of go unnoticed. I do like Yamaha’s front and rear linked braking system but I’m still old school and always use my rear brake, speaking of which, this bike does have a very functional and powerful rear brake which is refreshing. Many motorcycles seem to have a rear brake that is tacked on as an afterthought and not properly sized or pad compounded for the job. Not so here. The ABS seems to work well and I’ve unfortunately had the opportunity to use it in on 45 mph panic stop. I think the ABS saved me from impacting a car that pulled out in front of me or at the least saved me and the bike from going down. No complaints at all with the ABS system although I’m not a serious off-road rider. I know the ABS can’t be turned off without rigging a fuse switch, but I did use the bike on ten miles of fire road, steep at times, and didn’t have a problem with the ABS system. Again, I’m not a serious dirt guy.
Along with that electronic suspension, another feature that you’ll want once you get a taste is cruise control. Yamaha’s implementation of the feature is the best or one of the best in the industry, although I found the new Triumph Explorer system very nice as well. The cruise control switches fall readily to your left thumb, are intuitive, easy to activate and deactivate, so much so that you’ll be using cruise at every opportunity. The cruise system precisely holds the bike at the set speed and any use of the clutch, brake, or on/off cruise switch will deactivate the system. Very nice and just think of all the things you’ll be able to do with your formerly captive right hand. Wouldn’t own a bike without cruise now, spoiled for life.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised with the ST ES fuel mileage. Cruising on the highway in the 65-69mph range I’d consistently getting 49.5 to 50.5 MPG, checked by hand and via the computer. If the speeds drop just ten miles per hour I can obtain around 52-53 mpg and indeed averaged that with one tank providing a total range just shy of 300 miles before I got scared of the low fuel warning. The EPA ratings on the bike are only around 43 MPG which worried me at first but I am glad that the bike has proven almost as frugal as my Buell Ulysses but with a much larger tank. Good stuff.
Not all is perfect with the ST ES though. The factory Yamaha panniers and top box are crap. Their construction is plastic with metal overlays to look the part, but when you start to use them you find they’re cobbled together. Plastic over-limit straps, lock cylinders that feel permanently gummed up, and a key released box to frame mounting system that will have you releasing the box every time you try and open the lid. Mine have already been sold to on and I took delivery of a proper system from Bumot, although three or four companies make similar products just as good and far better than the Yamaha OEM setup.
Other crap parts that require more or less immediate replacement is the plastic skid plate and crash bars, both of which are basically placeholders for aftermarket pieces of quality. The front windshield needs some additional stability which is easily rectified. Some wiring looms are visible and weren’t neatly packaged and taken care of from the factory, but, one can’t expect Ducati or Triumph type finishing touches for half the money. But these are fairly minor complaints considering the actual selling price for these machines, new, is about half that of its competition.
Super Tenere ES in summary is a fine machine for chewing up highway miles, running switchbacks, unimproved roading, and getting you and your stuff from A to B intact and in relative comfort. It doesn’t have a beak or a European pedigree but I don’t find much lacking with the machine and its lack of the aforementioned characteristics might be two of its best qualities.
Well put Ron.
Thanks
Thanks
::026:: ::026:: ::026:: ::026:: ::026:: = 5Andylaser said:Reminds me of the FZR1000 I had many years ago. Handled like it was on rails, awesome brakes, did epic stoppies, really easy to ride at licence shredding speeds etc, etc. After 6 months, I was totally bored with it. It was far too predictable and did everything exceptionally well (except comfort).
I sold it and got a V Max with iffy handling, questionable brakes and lousy range. But my god it was fun to ride.
VRODE
Easy Does It
Very nice write-up Ron, thanks! Of the bikes you listed, the Multistrada is the only one I've ridden besides the S10. Very nice and intoxicating but not nearly as dirt road worthy for me. And yeah, cruise is real nice to have.
FrontRangeRider
Member
Ron - Great writeup and you described the S10 perfectly.
Tenerester
Member
Very nicely done Ron! ::008::
Could use this write up as a standard point of reference to anyone trying to choose between a S10 and a Euro bike. ::008::
Could use this write up as a standard point of reference to anyone trying to choose between a S10 and a Euro bike. ::008::