CCT noise

[stutrump]

Hi all. I've read the threads about CCT problems. Mine is making a noise for about 2-3 seconds on start up and it's worrying me because I've got a few thousand miles to do in the next few weeks and no time to do any spannering.
So....some advice please! Do you reckon I'll be ok? (Only makes a noise on cold start up).
Also...(i know it may be foolish to do it) I'm due an oil change and would like to do it before all these miles but going on what I've read on CCT failures on the S10 it may be foolish to change the oil now.
Finally...in anticipation of me changing the CCT in a few weeks time I'm curious to learn as much as possible. The one thing Im still unsure about is if its a hydraulic one (logic suggests it must be) or a spring one.
Also..is it better to replace with a manual one? Sorry for all the questions. Cheers everyone.

 

[EricV]

How many miles on the bike?

The CCT failures have all been very close to or over 50k miles. Mine failed at 85k miles. If you're getting close to that, or over that mileage, consider having it changed out for the new design. If not, change the oil and go ride.

2-3 seconds is not a big deal. 20-30 seconds IS a big deal. It will get worse before it fails and you'll notice it.

Yes, it will be worse on the first start up after an oil change. Yes, this is when at least three CCT failures occurred. It takes a little longer for oil pressure to come up after an oil change due to the dry sump nature of the engine.

Yes, it is a hydraulic design, but also has a spring, IIRC. There is a new design part out. To my knowledge, none of those have been reported to have failed.

A manual CCT can be fitted, which will prevent any failure, but also will require you to adjust it on occasion. I have no experience with one, so have no idea how often this might be. You can also screw the pooch by over tightening a manual CCT. Again, no idea how common or even if this is a realistic issue, just know that to a degree, you're going off noise and "feel" which is subjective and not everyone has.

Last thought, if you change the oil and when you go to start the bike, it just catches, then dies. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO START IT AGAIN. Instead get it towed to the dealer and tell them what was happening before the oil change, what happened upon that first start attempt and that you suspect the cam timing chain has slipped. They can pull the valve cover and check to see if the cam timing is off and it's fairly simple. Odds are very good that no damage will have occurred at that point. If you keep cranking, you'll end up with bent valves and a damaged piston. BTDT and it sucks. Took four months for the bike to be repaired under warranty.

 

[Dogdaze]

Only ever heard of two CCT failures, both on high mileage bikes, unless your's has over 50k I would not worry. The noise on start up is normal, as you pointed out, it goes away after a few seconds, again, normal. it is a hydraulic unit, some have changed to a manual screw type others have changed to the new '14 CCT. If you have never done it before, either read up on it and see all the relevant threads, or get a professional to do it. I plan to change mine, at the 24k valve check service. So, change the oil a few days before you go, and enjoy your trip.

 

[EricV]

On additional tidbit - The new CCT is a superseded part number applicable to all years of XT1200Z and ZE Super Tenere bikes, not just a later part number.

 

[carrot]

My bike rattled sometimes at start up didn't give it much thought I was planning on changing it out when I did the 50,000 mile service but about a month ago I tried to started it and it jumped time with only 43,000 miles but I was lucky it didn't jump far enough to do any damage I just had to put back in time and install the updated tensioner .

 

[stutrump]

Thanks everyone.
EricV...I read about your repair under warranty...thats why I'm reluctant to change the oil before my big mileage over the next few weeks, which isn't a trip sadly but just my ilusual commuting. My bikes got nearly 50k on it.
As I said, I've got absolutely no chance to spanner it for another 4 weeks so I have to do these miles as its my sole work transport. Will probably risk doing the oil change in the next few days and if it slips on start up I wont try to crank again (thanks for your advice there Eric..which I read before).
More soon!

 

[Dogdaze]

Thanks everyone.
EricV...I read about your repair under warranty...thats why I'm reluctant to change the oil before my big mileage over the next few weeks, which isn't a trip sadly but just my ilusual commuting. My bikes got nearly 50k on it.
As I said, I've got absolutely no chance to spanner it for another 4 weeks so I have to do these miles as its my sole work transport. Will probably risk doing the oil change in the next few days and if it slips on start up I wont try to crank again (thanks for your advice there Eric..which I read before).
More soon!

On the info about your mileage, can you not wait to do the oil change in a few weeks? How many miles will you do in those weeks? I do get where you are coming from, I too based on your mileage be cautious.

 

[stutrump]

Thats what Im thinking too Dogdaze. Probably another 2 or 3k in the next few weeks...maybe more. Think I'll hold off on the oil change. I usually do it way before it needs it anyway.

 

[EricV]

I agree that your concern is well founded. Odds are still in your favor. One option is to run it by a dealer, if there is one you can trust, and have them listen to the start up noise and document what they heard and how they feel about it. Might cost you something for diagnostic, but Yamaha has been giving some warranty love for this issue, even out of warranty in some cases. Doesn't hurt to ask.

I did notice that the CCT rattle got worse before the failure. In my case, it was during a 8 week trip to the Yukon and Alaska and I didn't want to attempt to get service in another country where I knew my US warranty would not have been honored, plus I simply was off the beaten path a lot and no where near a dealer when I thought about getting it looked at. Figured I would do it after getting home. The bike made it home fine, just didn't survive the oil change low pressure drop the day I was taking it to the dealer.

You're getting close to your second valve check interval. Do you plan on having that done, or doing it yourself? If the former, perhaps try and roll these two issues into one service and ask for a loaner bike. Not common here, but you never know if you can get lucky! Some dealers/shops will give a loaner if they think you're dropping the bike off in the morning and will be picking it up in the afternoon. If it should take them longer, it's good for you and bad for them.

 

[Nimbus]

I say F*&% Yamaha and their POS CCTs. Due to all the failures on the FZ-09 (including mine, just recently at 9100mi) and the fact that they've apparently tried to update the CCT 3x and they are still failing, I replaced mine on the S10 at the 26K valve adjustment. Easy as pie, particularly as the OEM was already out and a royal PIA to get back in. CCT ~$100. No more fear, Priceless.

 

[vwboomer]

my brandy new 2013 with 700 miles has the noise, I think. Sounds a lot like my 950 Adventure did. Once the bike warms up it's gone, but very disconcerting since I know what it is.
It's surprisingly spendy, but I'll probably do it at my next oil change.

 

[Ramseybella]

Although I was told a Manual CCT will screw with Warranty I just told myself F-it and had one installed after forking out $130.00 for a 14 CCT that was defective.
I have never looked back.. ::001::

 

[EricV]

my brandy new 2013 with 700 miles has the noise, I think. Sounds a lot like my 950 Adventure did. Once the bike warms up it's gone, but very disconcerting since I know what it is.
It's surprisingly spendy, but I'll probably do it at my next oil change.

You won't likely notice any difference. It's quite common for Super Tens to have rattle on start up. Well within the normal noises. Some bikes are quiet, others rattle from day one. At 700 miles, it's very unlikely you have any problem unless the noise lasts noticeably for longer than 10 seconds. If it does, have the dealer listen to it, but I would be very surprised if they do anything on a brand new bike. The Parallel twin is not a quiet motor.

 

[stutrump]

Thanks again everyone. I must say that the manual CCT seems much more appealing to me at the moment. Will have to order something soon. Decision time!!

 

[Ramseybella]

If you are still under Y.E.S.. Warranty just take it in and have them listen to the noise, if the noise is constant my guess your CCT is on it's last leg.
If your warranty has run out have them install the manual and do the valves and throttle bodies.

 

[tomatocity]

I am a terrible reader. What year and how many miles on your Tenere? If you have a 2012 or 2013 upgrade to the 2014+ CCT. Its not If, though When it will fail. If you present it correctly Yamaha might do it for free. Yamaha knows and now admits there is a problem. You can use my name if you would like.

I was one of the major 2012 CCT failures at 52,200 miles and my CCT rattled from day one. Changed the oil one evening and attempted to start the next morning. Three months and 23 days later and $5,000 in parts it ran better than it ever had. I traded it in for a 2015 ES only because that was the best value of the 2012 and a generous offer from the dealership. I rode it for 65 miles... that engine never ran that well ever.

Note: if you still have YES time... a manual CCT most likely will void the warranty.

If you are thinking about upgrading to the 2014+ CCT... do it.

 

[stutrump]

Thanks again folks. Mine is a 2011 with nearly 50k on it. No warranty on mine and sadly I dont think Id have any luck with Yamaha uk doing it for free...not from my previous experiences.

 

[tomatocity]

Thanks again folks. Mine is a 2011 with nearly 50k on it. No warranty on mine and sadly I dont think Id have any luck with Yamaha uk doing it for free...not from my previous experiences.

Then the Manual CCT would be your best bet. Be sure to not over tighten the cam chain.

 

[The Ferret]

@Stu , if you manage to source one in the Uk let me know. My bikes ready for one!!

 

[frez]

I ordered my manual cut from the states, took about a week to turn up http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-2009-10-11-12-13-2014-2015-R1-APE-YTR1-09-PRO-Manual-Cam-Chain-Tensioner-/251582876261