Cameras and Photography

[Ollie]

Thought it would be interesting to open a discussion about camera gear, since it's one of the primary ways that we communicate on these forums.

Just picked up the newish Canon EOS 60D yesterday. It will be my primary camera for landscape photography on long rides, next season. So far I'm pleased with it, as I've begun to put it through its' paces. It has 18 megapixel sensor and shoots 30 frames per second in full 1080, hd video. The articulating screen has already proven itself useful and I can see more ways it could be useful in the future. Below is a quick still life I set up from stuff laying around the house, in order to try out some of the manual settings and see what the lens it capable of.

It records to an SD card, which apparently have capacities upwards of 2 terabytes these days. Looks like that will be necessary, as a one minute video I took ended up being over 500 megabytes. ???

 

[colorider]

Cool thread!!! My wife and I shoot with Nikon gear (D90's), although we seldom have room for them on the motorcycle. For those trips, we just rely on a Panasonic P&S.

 

[Ollie]

Cool thread!!! My wife and I shoot with Nikon gear (D90's), although we seldom have room for them on the motorcycle. For those trips, we just rely on a Panasonic P&S.

Yeah, I was torn about which to get. I almost went for the Nikon D7000, but I just couldn't justify the extra cost and it won't do 30fps in 1080p. I do love Nikkor lenses though. It will be a pig to haul around on a bike, but quality images will make it worth it.

 

[Swagger]

I'm always in a dilema over cameras. I detest carrying anything and so go for point n shoot for general stuff. If I'm going somewhere for a relatively quick ride I could be tempted to take the DSLR. I hate the thought rocking up at the best photo opportunity ever and not having the right gear. :

 

[mobyfubar]

I carry a cheap little Nikon Coolpix (L11?) pocket P&S nearly all the time. I can have it in a jacket pocket with a lanyard around my neck, and I don't have to get off the bike to take a shot. Or, riding 2-up, my wife carries it that way and can shoot while we're moving.

For nicer shots we use a Canon PowerShot SX10is. Takes less space than a DSLR, has a 20x optical zoom and can do most of what I want these days. Still, I'm more paranoid about carrying it and it's bulkier than the pocket camera so it only goes when I expect to have good photo opps.

Having two cameras on a trip came in handy when we were on a moto tour in South America in 2008. On the second day, the predecessor to the Canon went tango uniform so we ended up relying on that cheap pocket camera for the rest of the trip. I was sure glad to have a backup.

 

[markjenn]

I occasionally carry a DSLR on a trip, but I always carry some kind of P&S because so many shots are opportunistic and you won't get them if you're hauling a clunky DSLR out of your luggage all the time. I like my Canon DSLR but I love my wide-angle, fast-lens LX3. There are occasion opportunities where having the extra capabilities of the DSLR gets you the better shot, but not many. And it is better suited to the car where you can carry the big camera bag with all the accessories that exploit its power - big lenses, speedlites, tripods, etc.

- Mark

 

[colorider]

I can have it in a jacket pocket with a lanyard around my neck, and I don't have to get off the bike to take a shot.

This is exaclty what I do as well. I've even got some cool shots while on the move. 8)

 

[HoebSTer]

Yearss ago during a bike trip to Alaska I took a Canon Eos Rebel with a few lenses. Now it's just a point and shoot olympus which is waterproof and shock proof.
Wife and I purchased last year the 15megapixel Canon T1i. I still have my 28-300mm Tamron lens I used for versatility instead of changing lenses all of the time.

 

[Grunt58]

I use a cannon Power Shot A1100IS for my tank bag camera (12.1 mega pixels with Image stabilizer) for my point and shoot. If I'm going to be posting to a forum or on line, I use the 5 mega pixel camera in my Samsung Focus Windows 7 Phone and transmit it directly to the net. I pack enough stuff on a trip so small and compact seem to do it for me.

 

[Ollie]

I agree that the P&S cam's are great when your focus is on the ride and not completely on the imagery, but I'm planning to use the bike to also get me to some places where documenting the images will be of similar importance to the ride there. So, I'm interested in getting out of the "auto" modes of the camera and really understanding how to use the advanced modes. I'm tired of having all the advanced features and telling myself that I'll learn them some day, but never do.

My first step is that I mostly shoot in aperture priority. This allows me to control the depth of field (DoF), while I let the camera choose the ISO and shutter speed. Keeping in mind that I can't hold the camera if the shutter speed is 1/30 of a second or lower, without blurring the image. Even in aperture priority I tend to tweek the ISO, trying to keep it low and pulling out the tripod when necessary. I'll have to find room on the bike for that as well. ATGATT. ;D

Cycling/Photography. Like peanut butter and chocolate. ;D

If I can put on gloves, boots, armored pants, jacket and helmet then what's a little 700g camera?

 

[markjenn]

I agree that the P&S cam's are great when your focus is on the ride and not completely on the imagery, but I'm planning to use the bike to also get me to some places where documenting the images will be of similar importance to the ride there.

Just because you have a P&S doesn't mean you don't have things like aperture control.

- Mark

 

[colorider]

Just because you have a P&S doesn't mean you don't have things like aperture control.

- Mark

True. My latest Panasonic has virtually everything my DSLR has except interchangeable lenses!!! But, I choose to use the "Program" or "Auto" most of the time.... 8)

 

[Grunt58]

Just because you have a P&S doesn't mean you don't have things like aperture control.

- Mark

One of the reasons I got the cannon in addition to AA battery power, was the advance photography modes. I can use in in a P&S mode or go choose what degree of automation I want as well (to include aperture control). Quite an advanced little camera in its day. I'm sure its been upgraded since I got it a couple of years ago. The only disadvantage I see to a camera like this one is the inability to change the lens.

 

[Ollie]

Just because you have a P&S doesn't mean you don't have things like aperture control.

- Mark

Yeah, forget the P&S vs DSLR because I wasn't trying to create a thread about that. Not much to talk about there. I am interested in learning about photography process, however, and comparing notes and observations about how to improve my skills.

Besides, what's the point of having aperture priority if you have a crap lens that you can't accurately focus manually, and isn't capable of the high quality shots.

 

[Ollie]

Playing around with the camera tonight in very low light while watching the tube. Can't believe how LOW light this thing can observe. Played around with ISO in a variety of settings and it's like this thing can see in the dark! Turned off as much light as possible and could still record images. Very impressed!!

Set the 60d's color space to match Adobe 1998 color profile for camera and printer and prints are coming perfect. Daylight imagery is sharp and colors are very good.

I'll take some images with the new camera when I visit FredZ at the open house in Litchfield this weekend.

We'll see how the Xterra manages a big snow storm on the way to Illinois. FredZ, can you chill a beer for my arrival?

 

[markjenn]

Besides, what's the point of having aperture priority if you have a crap lens that you can't accurately focus manually, and isn't capable of the high quality shots.

Again, you're making assumptions about all P&S's that doesn't reflect how good many are. Except for very low-light conditions, I'll match the glass in my LX3 vs. any DSLR and it has a very good manual focus. I'm not bashing your 60D - I am getting one also as it is a great camera - but your preconception that it takes a expensive DSLR to produce high-quality pictures is pure rubbish.

- Mark

 

[Ollie]

I've got a great P&S as well. It was the best spec when I bought it a few years ago. I can shoot in manual, aperture priority, tungsten white balance, etc... I'll agree that the line is blurring between DSLR's and P&S's, but to say lens quality is the same is a pretty bold statement. I'm sure the LX3 is good. Is that the one with the Leica lens? How do you manually focus it? With a button or toggle?

Similarly, most P&S's aperture range is fairly short, usually f8-12 and lower. Switching over to the DSLR for shooting my work I can get a much greater DoF, with all objects sharply focused from front to back. A couple of years ago I had an article published art related national mag, with photos of my work. I was trying to get good images out of my Canon Powershot, but the editor kept rejecting them because the rear of images were faintly out of focus, but my camera maxed out at f8. I finally ended up borrowing a D7 from a colleague and fixed the problem. There are other factors to consider as well, such as sensor size, etc....I'm sure we're all familiar with the major differences. This kind of info is all over the internet. Also, never meant imply hierarchy regarding cheap vs expensive. To each his own I guess.

 

[markjenn]

The LX3 (since superceded by the LX5) has a Leica F2.0 lens. Most P&S cameras these days are good for F2.8 or better on on the wide end, less, of course as you move to telephoto.

Focusing is via the viewvinder and buttons, but it is easy. But the AF is so good, I seldom use it. Image quality is superb

I'd don't mean to imply that a P&S can always match a DSLR, but I have to take you to task when you imply that a DSLR is necessary to produce quality images. I have a number of 11x17's of my LX3 images and they are tack-sharp, corner to corner. But there was a lot of light. In the "corners" of the envelope (light, speed, etc.) DSLR's come into their own. The trouble is that in my experience, 95% of motorcyclist photographers don't go into the corners so it is wasted capability.

I tend to defend P&S photography a lot, mostly because, 1) I think most amateur photographers pay way too much attention to equipment and not enough to technique; someone who has good technique and a cheap camera will take many more good photos than someone with poor technique and an expensive camera; and 2) big cameras and big camera bags just don't mix very well on motorcycles. I've carried a DSLR (and lenses and tripods and speedlites) on a lot of trips, and frankly, it's mostly a PITA. That doesn't mean that I don't like having all this cools stuff when there is plenty of time and the right situation arises where it makes a difference, but for 90% of the types of photos I shoot on a motorcycle trip, my P&S takes just as good a photo as the DSLR. Thus, for most photographers, the message I want to convey is that you should get a good P&S first, always have it at hand, take a lot of pictures, and learn how to use it well. Then, if you find you're reaching its limits, consider carrying a DSLR in addition.

Have fun with your 60D. Mine should be here in a day or three.

- Mark

 

[Ollie]

Well reasoned response with regard to the particular scenarios you laid out. It remains to be seen whether or not I'll haul the 60D around when I'm riding, but the idea is to combine two interests...IE, use the bike to get to some exceptional places to do some landscape photography. I also thought it would be interesting to create a thread where riders could talk shop about photography technique and process.

Anyway, I think you're gonna like the 60D. Are you getting the kit lens or something else? I don't know if you plan to do any video stuff, but there are a lot of short movies on Ytube that demonstrate the potential of the new HD still cameras as film cameras. Vince Laforet, Chase Jarvis and many others are getting some very good results out of them. There was also a full length feature film shot recently, but I can't recall the name. If you do plan to shoot HD vids you'll need a class 6 or higher SD card. Anything slower than that and it just stops after a few second of recording.

Another feature I like on the 60D is that when you're in sports mode, or manual with the drive set to "multiple" images, you can fire away at 5.3 fps. Granted, that's not super fast but what's cool is that you can shoot up to something like 50 frames before the buffer can't take it anymore. For printing out of Photoshop I initially tried Canon's default ICC, but after switching to Adobe 1998 I got much greater fidelity from the printer. Out of the box the 60D tries to give overly vivid colors in order to make the world look just that much prettier. So far, I'm very pleased with this camera and if I had one little complaint it's that it doesn't have a mag alloy shell, but it's not a deal breaker. Hope you enjoy yours and give me some feedback after you spent some quality time with it. Cheers.

 

[markjenn]

Anyway, I think you're gonna like the 60D. Are you getting the kit lens or something else?

I'm just getting the body as I have six or seven EOS lenses. None are that good, but I want to see how they'll do. The 18-135 does sound like a pretty versatile lens though. It's designed to use the full-sensor of the camera, right? All mine are lenses orginally for film cameras, so they are compromised on the wide angle. I have a Sigma 12-24 I use for WA.

I don't know if you plan to do any video stuff, but there are a lot of short movies on Ytube that demonstrate the potential of the new HD still cameras as film cameras. Vince Laforet, Chase Jarvis and many others are getting some very good results out of them. There was also a full length feature film shot recently, but I can't recall the name. If you do plan to shoot HD vids you'll need a class 6 or higher SD card. Anything slower than that and it just stops after a few second of recording.

Video seems to be a strength of the camera although I haven't shot much in the past. For just still photography, I could probably have been happy with a Rebel, but a good deal came along ont he 60D and I've been meaning to upgrade my 10D for some time, so it seemed like a no-brainer.

Another feature I like on the 60D is that when you're in sports mode, or manual with the drive set to "multiple" images, you can fire away at 5.3 fps. Granted, that's not super fast but what's cool is that you can shoot up to something like 50 frames before the buffer can't take it anymore.

I have a good friend who is a semi-professional who shoots road racing. This burst mode capability is worth its weight in gold for this sort of photography. (His $10K telephoto lens helps too.)

For printing out of Photoshop I initially tried Canon's default ICC, but after switching to Adobe 1998 I got much greater fidelity from the printer. Out of the box the 60D tries to give overly vivid colors in order to make the world look just that much prettier.

The camera mfgs are between a rock and a hard place in this regard. If they make the camera put out "true" images, people will think the competition is better because the photos have more "pop". If they bump things up, then people will complain the images are "inaccurate". You can shoot in RAW and completely put things under your control, but that's a lot more work. I need to mess around with calibration more - I generally have ignored this. I don't have a good color printer anyway.... I give images to my friend who has a high-end, large-format Epson and he prints them for me.

- Mark