Brake Check - Front First!

[Mellow]

Many might not post this but I feel it might save someone's life so I will.

Background:
Prior to getting my Super Ten, my past ~200k miles have been on ST1300s and GL1800s, both have linked brakes so whether you use your foot pedal or hand brake, they both activate both brakes.

My Habits:
Due to the above, I've had a habit of using my foot brake pedal 'FIRST' in order to scrub off speed then my hand brake if I need more, the foot pedal along on the ST1300 or GL1800 will give you anywhere from 80-90% of your braking ability, if not more. So, while many may see this as a bad habit, it didn't really matter on these two bikes and the same probably applies to several other bikes w/linked brakes that operate in a similar manner.

Recent Events:
Was in Arkansas this past weekend and the morning started out very well, used the engine to gauge my entry speeds into curves and really didn't use my brakes much except where some small trail braking was necessary IN curves, not BEFORE curves.

Later in the day I was getting tired and lazy and not using the engine as much so I came up on a right hand curve that was 25mph. I don't know how fast I was going, probably slower than I had earlier in the morning but because I was caught off guard a bit, I fell back to my habit of hitting the rear brake first. Only about 30% braking there, by the time - milliseconds - I noticed I wasn't scrubbing off enough speed, I was across the double-yellow and lucky there wasn't anyone coming the other direction, it was also so fast that I didn't get enough pressure on the front brake to make a difference.

Conclusion:
Get into the habit of hitting that front brake lever FIRST, unless you're off road. I will start retraining myself on my ST1300 so I don't repeat the same mistake.

Please don't turn this into a lecture about the rights and wrongs of riding... I know I was tired and I know I was not paying enough attention to my engine rpms so I wasn't able to just drop it in and power out. The right braking would have resolved those other issues and snapped me out of it and back into a better technique.

I only want those that may have my bad habit of hitting the rear brake first to know that this bike will not forgive you for that and you need to adjust your habits now. I hope this helps someone out there and avoids what could have been a costly mistake on my part.

On a side note, this bike rocks in the twisties.

 

[Twisties]

The current generation BMW linked brakes activate both brakes with the hand lever, and the foot lever operates independently to provide additional rear wheel braking and rear only braking for "trail braking" on turn entry, use for starting on a hill or for dirt riding. I believe the S10 is the same, however apparently there is much less transfer from the hand lever to the rear brake than on my RT, as I find that it is important to use both brake levers for routine operation on the S10.

 

[eemsreno]

My old Ventures have uni braking with the foot only, I ride motocross enough that I use the front brake most anyway.

 

[Blue_eyes]

Page 3-19 of the (european) owners manual that we all are supposed to have read:


The unified brake system does not
function when the brake pedal is
applied alone or before the brake
lever is applied.

Also on page 3-18:

Brake lever
The brake lever is located at the right
handlebar grip. To apply the front
brake, pull the lever toward the handlebar
grip.
This model is equipped with a unified
brake system.
When pulling the brake lever, the front
brake and a portion of the rear brake
are applied. For full braking performance,
apply both the brake lever and
the brake pedal simultaneously.
The unified brake system is monitored
by an ECU, which disables unified
braking and resumes conventional
braking if a malfunction occurs.

 

[HoebSTer]

This is interesting!!!! I mean if we touch the front lever (only) it applies front and rear which has an " x " feel of slowing down. While applying said front brake as part of the unified braking system on this fine machine then press the rear pedal at the same time, the amount of deceleration is highly "xxxx" noticable above the front brake application only. If we apply the rear brake only, I find my foot pressing harder wondering where the brakes are. Very interesting!!!
I could feel the same sort of decel with my Honda ST1300 as well. For me, I rarely use the rear brake pedal at all. From what I remember, on the 1300, when you apply the front lever, you are using 2/3 up front and 1/3 on the rear. When you apply the rear only on the 1300, it activates 2/3 rear and 1/3 up front. Only when both are applied, do you get all 3 pistons from each caliper to engage fully providing 100 % of allowable braking. I thought this is how it was different from the ST1100's linked system, is they went from a 2 piston caliper, to 3 piston for the fronts!!!

 

[cbrunsw]

I know to be careful using that front brake on gravel, especially in a turn!

 

[Mellow]

This is interesting!!!! I mean if we touch the front lever (only) it applies front and rear which has an " x " feel of slowing down. While applying said front brake as part of the unified braking system on this fine machine then press the rear pedal at the same time, the amount of deceleration is highly "xxxx" noticable above the front brake application only. If we apply the rear brake only, I find my foot pressing harder wondering where the brakes are. Very interesting!!!
I could feel the same sort of decel with my Honda ST1300 as well. For me, I rarely use the rear brake pedal at all. From what I remember, on the 1300, when you apply the front lever, you are using 2/3 up front and 1/3 on the rear. When you apply the rear only on the 1300, it activates 2/3 rear and 1/3 up front. Only when both are applied, do you get all 3 pistons from each caliper to engage fully providing 100 % of allowable braking. I thought this is how it was different from the ST1100's linked system, is they went from a 2 piston caliper, to 3 piston for the fronts!!!

Yeah, you could be right, I don't remember the specifics on the 1300 but I know the difference between the front lever or rear pedal is very little as far as the feel of your brakes. As you said, if you just use the rear brake on the street you keep pushing harder wondering where it is. I'm used to a light touch on the 1300 brake pedal.

I'm not saying don't use the rear, just to make sure and make a habit of using the front first on this bike. I will say the front brake on this bike is a step above the brake system on the st1300, not a huge step, just a tad better and it might just be the weight difference.

 

[JohnB]

I'd have to say that the linked braking on my FJR1300 was probably a better arrangement for the street. The rear brake was pressure sensitive. If you stomped on it, the linked braking was enabled and you got some of the front as well. But, if you pressed gently to, for example, trail brake into a turn, then you only got the rear brake. Squeezing the lever got you, some of each. While this might have been better for the street, if wouldn't be optimal for the dirt since you really couldn't use full rear brake without the linked feature being activated. Of course, I wouldn't bring an FJR onto the dirt anyway. So, now I have to train myself to make sure I grab the lever first unless I only want the rear brake.

I have to say that grabbing the lever, even forcefully, is very reassuring in that there seems to be much less front end dive than my FJR. The balance between front and rear braking when using the lever is very well balanced so that the machine stays level. I like!

 

[JRTEN]

Guys, I am pretty sure that the unified braking system on the S10 is not like that of the FJR where depressing the rear brake always involved activating some of the front brake pistons. However, on the S10, if you press the rear first, then the brakes aren't linked. I presumed this was to keep the rear braking independent for dirt riding. However, if you press the front brake first, then press the rear, you get the linked braking . This is why the rear only and first has such poor street stopping power. So, I also got in the bad habit of using the rear to scrub off a bit of speed during multiple types kinds of speeds and this bad habit didn't matter because the brakes always had some level of linking; but back break first on the S10 means that it doesn't link to the front. Right?

 

[JRTEN]

From the Yamaha web site:


::022::"Super Ténéré has both an Antilock Braking System (ABS) and Unified Braking System. With the Unified Braking System, squeezing the front brake alone also provides some rear-wheel braking; pressing the rear brake first overrides the Unififed Braking System for traditional separate front and rear braking action."

So, like I said, if you press the back brake first, it separates the "link" between back and front. So, bad habits like Mellow and I developed on other bikes braking systems are not good practices on the S10 on the street. Press front brake first for best integrated and regulated braking on the S10 on the street (on dirt is a different matter!).

 

[Kidder]

Mellow,

I'd say that's a bad habit you've gotten yourself into. A rear brake is not going to apply 80-90% stopping power on a Gold Wing or ST1300. It's probably the opposite. The front brake provides the majority of your stopping power. Using the rear brake can get you into trouble on the street. In fact, I rarely touch it.

 

[Mellow]

Mellow,

I'd say that's a bad habit you've gotten yourself into. A rear brake is not going to apply 80-90% stopping power on a Gold Wing or ST1300. It's probably the opposite. The front brake provides the majority of your stopping power. Using the rear brake can get you into trouble on the street. In fact, I rarely touch it.

You didn't read my post, both the ST1300 and GL1800 have incredible linked brakes and work very well wether you hit the front lever OR the pedal. It's a bad habi yes however on those two bikes it's okay, not so on the Tenre.

 

[Jim]

Man. You guys sure do confuse one. I was just taught awhile back to simutaneously use both brakes when coming to a stop. Now, you are saying to use the front brake first(?). Look at me with disdain with such a stupid observation/question all you want. You would be looked at the same if you were a rookie in a world of which I once was comfortable.

 

[Twitch]

If anyone has bought the US Factory Service Manual, there are four good pages of operational write-up on the UBS (pages 1-6 to 1-9), including two-up operational characteristics. I'd read the Owner's Manual, but this thread sent me over to the SM to see what it says.

Unlike most it seems, I’ve never had a bike with linked braking and this is a pretty neat function to have. I’m a long time “rear-brake-first” rider too, but am always glad to try new things. Thanks for posting your experience and reminder Mellow. 8)

 

[hANNAbONE]

...I use both levers on the street all the time...

Dirt 'n Gravel, different story all together

 

[Blue_eyes]

...I use both levers on the street all the time...

Dirt 'n Gravel, different story all together

Your left lever is your clutch lever....

At the bottom right there is also a brake pedal! ::024::

 

[colorider]

Your left lever is your clutch lever....

At the bottom right there is also a brake pedal! ::024::

::015:: ::015:: ::015::

 

[Blue_eyes]

::015:: ::015:: ::015::

Just kidding as I sometimes get the impression that some posters have difficulty with receptive reading.... :-X

 

[Mellow]

I never said don't use the pedal at all... just that you need to use the front lever first to take advantage of the linked brakes. The habit should be to hit the front a split second before the foot pedal and apply them both.

 

[Blue_eyes]

I never said don't use the pedal at all... just that you need to use the front lever first to take advantage of the linked brakes. The habit should be to hit the front a split second before the foot pedal and apply them both.

Exactly... that's what your initial post already said......

And what my post refering to the ownersmanual also states....

That's why I'm amazed some still have doubts/questions.... ::010::