Back Wheel

[Yamaray]

Hi Guy's
I've been watching exhaust videos on You Tube and noticed that with the bike on the centre stand, some of the back wheels spin when throttle is applied and some don't. Is this a problem for the wheels that spin or the wheels that don't and could someone explain why the wheel spins
Thanks

yamaray

 

[Dogdaze]

Simply put, as all the parts of the drive-train are connected, there will be some 'energy' transferred to the drive train from the moving engine, it's fluids are constantly moving while the engine is on, so this is transferred to the back wheel via the gearbox and drive shaft, although the clutch plate do a good job, nothing is really 'dis-connected' if I may use that term. It is quite normal. Jack a rear wheel drive car up at the back and watch both wheels spin in opposite directions. Of course I may be wrong and full of sh*t! In which case just ignore me.

 

[motoguy]

Agreed, "residual drag" it's called i believe. Your bike should do it more when first started or in colder temps than when its warmed up. Even with the transmission in neutral the oil has "drag" between all of the moving parts causing the rear wheel to spin. I had a Toyota corolla years ago that at first start when below 0 I had to hold the clutch in till the engine would warm up a bit or the engine would die. obviously in neutral.

 

[Yamaray]

Thanks Guy's
So the bikes that don't have the rear wheel spinning have they got a problem or are they just warmed up

yamaray

 

[Checkswrecks]

You can't tell much off-hand by whether the rear wheel is spinning or not. Warm vs cold oil at the clutch plates, slightly dragging rear brake or not, amount of friction in a chain drive bike due to sprocket ratio or chain condition, etc.

 

[trikepilot]

A bit of spin is normal as noted. However, there are ample threads here from my experiences on my 2012 Tenere several months back regarding some irregularity with this phenomenon.

The short story is that Yamaha warrantied my clutch basket, plates, and assorted ancillary parts due to what they called a incorrectly machined part from the factory. The problem manifested itself with some weird clutch action. Over time, I kept hunting for why the clutch was not right and I discovered a peculiarity. With the bike up on the center stand, the engine at idle might cause some slight rear wheel rotation. This is normal as stated. Put the bike in gear and run it a second or too and then pull in the clutch. If all is working properly, the rear wheel should slow down and perhaps stop. If not, at the very least you should be able to stop the rear wheel spin with light pressure from your foot. In my case, pulling the clutch in did not slow the rear wheel down at all and even with burly ADV boots on - there was no amount of foot pressure that could stop the rear wheel "driving" despite having the clutch fully pulled in. It was at this point that Yamaha acknowledged that there was a problem and agreed to investigate. Once inside the right side cover, they found the problem with the clutch and replaced it. No problems since.

 

[Dogdaze]

A bit of spin is normal as noted. However, there are ample threads here from my experiences on my 2012 Tenere several months back regarding some irregularity with this phenomenon.

Once inside the right side cover, they found the problem with the clutch and replaced it. No problems since.

So what was the problem inside the clutch cover? As mine does exactly the same thing.......

 

[Don in Lodi]

So what was the problem inside the clutch cover? As mine does exactly the same thing.......

Does it want to creep forward at traffic lights?

 

[Dogdaze]

Does it want to creep forward at traffic lights?

Yep! Even when the clutch is pulled in, but only if I blip the throttle to let the car driver know I'm there. It may just be the oil used last time, so this time I'm going to semi-synth

 

[roy]

Mine started acting weird at or around 30k hard miles. I ordered a whole new clutch, metal plates, fiber plates and spring plate. I've been racing and riding the mountains on my 750 since the parts came in and have not yet installed the clutch yet. Bikes just been sitting idle for the time being. I plan to install it next week sometime.

It was working fine up until around 30k miles then I noticed the odd behavior as most have eluded to earlier.

 

[Shovelhead]

Yep! Even when the clutch is pulled in, but only if I blip the throttle to let the car driver know I'm there. It may just be the oil used last time, so this time I'm going to semi-synth

I doubt new or different oil will "fix" your problem. You could try bleeding the system, but my money is on the clutch plates.
I've never laid my hands or eyes on this particular clutch basket but I suspect the trouble is with the friction discs and or possibly the steels. Either contamination from wear on the frictions or possibly a warped steel.

As said, I'm not familiar with these clutches and likely talking over my head, but on my old bike with a dry clutch it's not uncommon to remove the plates and clean them up real good.
Check the steels for flat and I lightly rub the friction discs on some flat concrete, then hit em with some brake clean and re-install.

If a steel is warped all the above is simply pissing in the wind.

I'm curious to hear what you find.

 

[Dogdaze]

I doubt new or different oil will "fix" your problem. You could try bleeding the system, but my money is on the clutch plates.
I've never laid my hands or eyes on this particular clutch basket but I suspect the trouble is with the friction discs and or possibly the steels. Either contamination from wear on the frictions or possibly a warped steel.

As said, I'm not familiar with these clutches and likely talking over my head, but on my old bike with a dry clutch it's not uncommon to remove the plates and clean them up real good.
Check the steels for flat and I lightly rub the friction discs on some flat concrete, then hit em with some brake clean and re-install.

If a steel is warped all the above is simply pissing in the wind.

I'm curious to hear what you find.

I've ordered a new '14 clutch basket, but may well get a set of plates and steels as well, change out the whole lot. Spoke to Yamaha Tech dept yesterday and he also suggested the 'creep' may well be a warped steel, as I'm the second owner I cannot attest to how the PO rode the bike, even with only 12k on it. ho hum! Tech also seemed to think sometimes full synth oil may not be the best thing as this may cause a coupling effect.

 

[Shovelhead]

new parts!! aw, come on and try the high tech Shovelhead shuffle with scraping your shit around on the concrete..

hard to beat new parts ::008::

 

[Dogdaze]

new parts!! aw, come on and try the high tech Shovelhead shuffle with scraping your shit around on the concrete..

hard to beat new parts ::008::

The new clutch basket is to combat the annoying chudder, the new plates are to eliminate the creep if the plates and steels are the cause, happy to try the Shovelhead shuffle, however, look where I am, parts are not so readily available, or at least at the price point I'm happy with. things like that generally cost 3 X as much as the US, so parts are coming from the US.

 

[trikepilot]

So what was the problem inside the clutch cover? As mine does exactly the same thing.......

And mine also crept forward with the clutch lever back to the bar when I blipped the throttle - just like yours. I bled and rebled the clutch. I tried everything else I could think of and then just took it by the dealer to show them. I have the YES warranty and figured... why not see what they say. The shop manager himself checked it out and we compared it to another 12 Tenere owned by a shop employee and the shop manager agreed that mine was not right. They took the side case off and inspected the clutch. At that time, I was told that there was a part of the clutch basket that had been incorrectly machined at the factory and that I would be getting an entirely new clutch assembly from the ground up. But here is the kicker... I asked if they would consider putting in the 2014 clutch basket and plates if I would foot any difference in the parts cost? He asked Yamaha and was denied saying that the 2014 clutch basket and plates were not an approved part for the 2012 Tenere. So... I have a 2012 Tenere with almost 20K on it and only maybe 3-4k of those miles are on a new - albeit old model - clutch. But, I have had no issues with the bike since and I do check for the re-emergence of the symptons every month or two.

 

[Dogdaze]

Thanks Trikepilot ::008::
So I guess it's a complete clutch inc plates and steels going in......

 

[WJBertrand]

A lot of discussion about clutches. If in the videos the OP was watching, the transmission was in neutral and the clutch lever released, then the clutch behavior is not part of the phenomenon.

Every motorcycle I've ever owned would spin the rear wheel on the center stand, transmission in neutral and clutch released, particularly when cold started. Since motorcycles have constant mesh transmissions, all the gears are engaged and spinning all the time, even when in neutral. The whole gear train is bathed in oil, the lubricant then makes the system act a bit like a torque converter in which energy is transmitted via the viscosity of the lubricant instead of directly by a mechanical connection.

Most, if not all, the bikes I've owned would not spin the rear wheel on the CS in N once fully warmed up due to the reduced viscosity of the oil at full operating temperature. I suspect that explains the differences the OP noted in the videos.

 

[Yamaray]

A lot of discussion about clutches. If in the videos the OP was watching, the transmission was in neutral and the clutch lever released, then the clutch behavior is not part of the phenomenon.

Every motorcycle I've ever owned would spin the rear wheel on the center stand, transmission in neutral and clutch released, particularly when cold started. Since motorcycles have constant mesh transmissions, all the gears are engaged and spinning all the time, even when in neutral. The whole gear train is bathed in oil, the lubricant then makes the system act a bit like a torque converter in which energy is transmitted via the viscosity of the lubricant instead of directly by a mechanical connection.

Most, if not all, the bikes I've owned would not spin the rear wheel on the CS in N once fully warmed up due to the reduced viscosity of the oil at full operating temperature. I suspect that explains the differences the OP noted in the videos.

::012:: ::008::

yamaray