Arrow System and Ramifications

[midlife]

Hi Folks.

I know this is a well discussed subject, however I am still not fully clear on some things.

Ok, I have a 2012/13 and carried out an ECU reflash with great results. Since then I purchased a full Arrow system from a good guy on this site. I have fitted the Slip-on and love the noise, but I am fearfull of fitting the Headers without some firm clarification:

a) Is a Power Commander a mandatory requirement or only something needed if performance is compromised,

b) If performance is compromised, can I realistically damage the bike by continuing to use it?

c) Is a second re-flash with the system in place an option to exclude the Power Commander?

All advice welcomed.
Thanks
Rob

 

[Rasher]

The Arrow headers free up the motor a lot more than any end can, Arrow claim 2.4 BHP for an end can and 9 BHP for a system.

The bike runs very rich in stock form, according to CJS who re-mapped my bike of the dyno even with the headers the map ended up with less fuel up top on full throttle than the OE map, but needed more low down and in the middle.

The biggest problem with headers is the surge you get just off idle, the bike will lurch back and forth on very low throttle settings at low rpm (1800 - 2300 rpm) if you try to hold a steady speed, on the open road not an issue, but a pain when going really slow / filtering in traffic.

I had an ECU-U Flash originally but this did not sure the problem, the CJS racing flash sorted it out and gave perfect fuelling and throttle response, plus an improved T-Mode.

I know this can also be solved with a power commander, but think you need the Autotune add-on as well as the Power Commander - others will know more than me on the PC setup.


The end result is a bike which will pull much harder up top without losing any low down power, mine now charges into the red line whereas in stock trim it felt wheezy, a big difference and IMO worth the effort / cost.

 

[midlife]

Hi Rasher,

Hope you are keeping well?
The flash that I had was done (by post) by Chris. This was obviously after all your hard work with CJS,,, so do you think it will be ok with the headers or will need a visit to Chris again?
Cheers
Rob

 

[Rasher]

He has all my data so could probably do a fair job by post, but the best results are always had by getting a bike on the dyno as no two bikes are exactly the same, he told me injectors can vary by a few percent +/- as does every other component in the engine / exhaust so although "my map" would work very well on your bike, a map of your own would be that little bit better.

 

[surfinpig]

Call or message Jackson at http://rideonadv.com . He's very knowledgeable and friendly. Helped me get my bike sorted out. I have a 13 with arrow header, 2 bros can, and ecunleashed flash. I put exhaust on her then rode 2 hours highway to get it flashed. Had to ride her another 200-300 miles after that until codes stopped lighting up. Figured the computer needed to reset. Now 5k later no issues at all and she's a beast. No need for a power commander with mine.

 

[cosmic]

Sorry guys, but who's CJS??

 

[Dogdaze]

Sorry guys, but who's CJS??

A company based in west of UK, that does ECU re-flashing....

http://www.cjsracing.co.uk/

 

[Rasher]

They do not just do flashes and remaps they actually decode ECU's themselves and have their own flash solution for other tuners.

Very small outfit and specialise in Ducati tuning but seem very knowledgeable across a wide range of bikes and managed to sort out the Fuelling with the Arrow headers where ECU-U were unable to.

 

[cosmic]

I just might pull my ECU out and send it to someone, but it has to be within EU. You say CJS is a good bet?? Is the ECU enough, or they need to have the bike too?

 

[Dogdaze]

I just might pull my ECU out and send it to someone, but it has to be within EU. You say CJS is a good bet?? Is the ECU enough, or they need to have the bike too?

Just the ECU, maybe email Chris at CJS and ask questions, Rasher has done a lot of work with them so that we can get the ECU for the S10 done. Also here is a thread on removing the ECU if you need it....

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7407.msg125389#msg125389

 

[greg the pole]

Hi Folks.

I know this is a well discussed subject, however I am still not fully clear on some things.

Ok, I have a 2012/13 and carried out an ECU reflash with great results. Since then I purchased a full Arrow system from a good guy on this site. I have fitted the Slip-on and love the noise, but I am fearfull of fitting the Headers without some firm clarification:

a) Is a Power Commander a mandatory requirement or only something needed if performance is compromised,

b) If performance is compromised, can I realistically damage the bike by continuing to use it?

c) Is a second re-flash with the system in place an option to exclude the Power Commander?

All advice welcomed.
Thanks
Rob

Not sure about others, but my 2012 is flashed, no pcv or auto tune.
The bike really wakes up with the headers, a bit higher in the rev range, but good fun.
That said, I pulled all 4 plugs for a change, they are white...maybe days of old you could tell how rich/lean a motor ran, it might not be as easy now in days.
I'm changing plugs, and leaving things as is. bike has 70 thou km, with zero issue, and it was run with the stock headers till about 60k, but pretty much all it's life with a slip on of some sort.

 

[cosmic]

Just the ECU, maybe email Chris at CJS and ask questions, Rasher has done a lot of work with them so that we can get the ECU for the S10 done. Also here is a thread on removing the ECU if you need it....

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=7407.msg125389#msg125389

Thanks mate. Il look into it.

 

[Rasher]

Not sure about others, but my 2012 is flashed, no pcv or auto tune.
The bike really wakes up with the headers, a bit higher in the rev range, but good fun.
That said, I pulled all 4 plugs for a change, they are white...maybe days of old you could tell how rich/lean a motor ran, it might not be as easy now in days.
I'm changing plugs, and leaving things as is. bike has 70 thou km, with zero issue, and it was run with the stock headers till about 60k, but pretty much all it's life with a slip on of some sort.

With the O2 sensors in it will still run weak in the closed loop area where you typically cruise which may make plugs suggest a lean mixture, I have removed my O2 sensors and CJS re-mapped the bike to get the fueling spot-on at all throttle / rpm settings.

I was expecting it to burn a bit more fuel, but not really noticed any difference.

CJS said the ECU-U map was pretty decent at WOT but not great at some of the part throttle areas, but he reckoned it was certainly good enough and not massively rich or weak anywhere.

Agree about the headers, they really do give the bike a good boost with more power all the way through the range and a real good dollop up top.

 

[midlife]

Many thanks for the various replies. I have recently spoken to CJS, who carried out the flash on my ECU. He suggested that as I have had the flash, if I fit the headers, that there is a high chance that I will not suffer the surge that people speak of.
He is of course correct that ideally I should fit everything and then let him play on the Dyno, but in the meantime he reassured me that no I damage should occur. So in the light of this, I will fit the headers and save my pennies for a day on the Dyno.
Once again thanks for the various inputs
Rob

 

[greg the pole]

With the O2 sensors in it will still run weak in the closed loop area where you typically cruise which may make plugs suggest a lean mixture, I have removed my O2 sensors and CJS re-mapped the bike to get the fueling spot-on at all throttle / rpm settings.

I was expecting it to burn a bit more fuel, but not really noticed any difference.

CJS said the ECU-U map was pretty decent at WOT but not great at some of the part throttle areas, but he reckoned it was certainly good enough and not massively rich or weak anywhere.

Agree about the headers, they really do give the bike a good boost with more power all the way through the range and a real good dollop up top.

thanks for that Rasher.
I didn't want to spring for the pcV, as I'm currently busy sinking my money into my off road bike.
The bike runs great, and the headers are quite nice.