Arrow Header advantage

Dallara

Creaks When Walks
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Karson said:
??? If all you're wanting to do is get rid of the throttle dampening (read: stumble at take off) a 20 cent fuse will do the trick in the clutch switch and will save you hundreds over a re-flash. I'm sure that there are other intangibles to be discovered with a re-flash that I'm not aware of, though.

The limitations of the bikes exhaust gas velocity are in the headers and I've yet to hear of anyone having poor running conditions with just a slip on, for what it's worth...throw aftermarket headers on there without proper tuning, then that's a different story. Unless you jack-up tightening the slip-on's clamp around the header's collector pipe, there's very little chance your bike will run worse. I'm too lazy to fire up my google-fu and search for slip-on only dyno results threads, but i'm sure that there's at least a marginal performance increase pretty much across the board...

Just basing that on over 40 years riding and wrenching motorcycles... and over 20 years of building, tuning, and racing motorcycles and cars, often at the highest level... and over 10 years as a motorcycle dealer, not to mention more than that many as an automobile dealer... among other motorsports things. A national record here and there, some championship # 1 plates along the way, and so on and so forth.

But hey, you're probably right. What do I know? ;)

Dallara



p.s. BTW, I am *NOT* a fan of the clutch switch mod, for a lot of reasons... but that's not for this thread.

~
 

Karson

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not going to play the whole internet cowboy role here, but i was just surprised that you painted with such a broad stroke saying that the stock slip-on was tougher (not sure what that means) and more reliable, (again, how?) with nothing to back up those claims.

I usually do a fair amount of research before dumping my money into farkles, so i figured i'd at least catch your attention and hopefully get you to provide more than anecdotal claims that an akrapovic or leo has no benefit on the S10, and possible run the chance of being worse off than with the stock boat anchor.

::020::
 

Z06

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bacon said:
I had my heart set on getting The Arrow catless headers with a re flash and PCV with auto tune.
But the more I think about it the more inclined not to go this route.
Mainly I just wanted to get rid of the cat and the heat assocated with it and dial out on low speed stumbles.
But in all reality I don't need more power yes it might be a good bragging right but realy the power it has is not a hold back for me.
I love the idea of getting rid of all the restrictions bult in to the factory ECM and making the moror run the way it should in all the gears and from idle to red line.
But the difference in cost between just getting a slip on can and going the whole 9 yards is almost 2 grand.
At this point I am thinking that I will just go with the slip on and live with the power it now has.
Like you I wanted to get rid of the cat and the heat so I gutted the OEM header pipe. Best of both worlds. No cat and OEM quality pipe.
 

Dallara

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Karson said:
not going to play the whole internet cowboy role here, but i was just surprised that you painted with such a broad stroke saying that the stock slip-on was tougher (not sure what that means) and more reliable, (again, how?) with nothing to back up those claims.

I usually do a fair amount of research before dumping my money into farkles, so i figured i'd at least catch your attention and hopefully get you to provide more than anecdotal claims that an akrapovic or leo has no benefit on the S10, and possible run the chance of being worse off than with the stock boat anchor.

::020::

Stock mufflers are always tougher... that's one reason they weigh so much. They are made of heavier gauge material, usually steel of some sort. The usually have internal baffle panels that all act as stiffeners. They usually have welded on, heavy gauge hangers rather than the often used thin gauge *band* around the can that breaks so often - usually out just past where Moses lost his sandals - on aftermarket cans. Even if the aftermarket hanger is welded on (as in the case of the Akra I believe) it is still thinner gauge material that is more prone to structural failure and fatigue cracking over time. Stock mufflers are usually not just quieter, but for the most part (and in this specific case) required no re-packing or maintenance of any kind. The stock muffler internals are usually nice, heavy gauge material welded up inside so there is little chance for anything coming loose... unlike many an aftermarket can where the center perforated core pipe breaks loose and rattles around. Many aftermarket cans are of riveted construction, especially the carbon ones, and that inevitably leads to the rivets pulling out or shaking loose after a number of miles leaving one with a end or front cap shaking about like a dwarf inside a 50-year old hooker. Most aftermarket cans don't use anything like the OEM gasket interface between the header pipes and the can, often leading to leaks, drool, or a place to allow water into the pipes...

And as much as I hate to admit it, stock OEM mufflers almost always stand up better to crashes than any aftermarket can! That's not anecdotal. That's a well tested, at least on my account, *FACT*! :D

I could go on, but you get the idea. It's those kinds of things that have led me to believe - time after time over the years - that stock OEM mufflers are the toughest, most reliable pipes to use for long-term durability. If I'm building a road racer, an MX'er, a cross country or enduro mount - i.e. a *COMPETITION* motorcycle - then I'm the first one to use the lightest, freest flowing, highest power exhaust arrangement available... but the Super Ténéré is *NOT* a race bike. At least mine is not. I use mine to ride as far away from home as possible with the least chance of it experiencing any sort of component failure. I also want it as quiet as possible so I am the best possible neighbor when out off the beaten path, often crossing farmer's and rancher's property or going through state or national forests, parks, and preserves.

And believe me, the guys who design those stock OEM exhausts are no dummies... And they have usually spent way more dyno time than any aftermaerket company ever can to reach the very best compromise of performance, economy, noise, and durability. And stock exhausts only get better every year, as evidenced by the smaller and smaller gains the aftermarket tends to get as the years roll by. Usually these minimal gains are only achieved by sort of "robbing Peter to pay Paul" - i.e. taking power away from somewhere to gain it elsewhere in the rev range. And if they do make more power then they almost always require more fuel to be effective... That's simple physics and flow dynamics. Hence, *IF* you get more power then you usually get worse fuel mileage. And almost always an aftermarket pipe produces nothing more than just more noise. At least unless some degree of tuning is done to optimize it.

Again, simple physics.

But like I said... All of this is nothing more than my own personal opinion based on decades of futzing, fiddling, tweaking, tricking, pondering, piddling, wrenching, tuning, and twaddling with the damn things - on race tracks and off. Oh, and the engineering classes from that state university... ;)

Look, I put a lot of miles on my S-10 a year, and because of that I want it to be as reliable and trouble-free as possible, along with being the least fatiguing it can be to ride long distances. Noise is fatiguing over an 800-mile day, earplugs or not, so quiet to me is a good thing. Not to mention I really want to piss off the least number of non-motorcyclists as I possibly can so in the future my bikes don't get legislated into emasculation. For the racetrack I may have different goals, but on the street and on the trails I want quiet and durability - and the stock muffler is the best compromise for that purpose IMHO.

Now if you only ride a few miles a year, and not far from home, then running an aftermarket may not be a reliability risk to you.

Just my two centavos... YMMV.

Dallara


~
 

Karson

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thanks for chiming in again and clarifying, dallara, by no stretch did I intend to discredit anything you said before.

it makes sense that given the weight of the oem slip-on, that they do indeed stand up to more abuse after a few lay-downs. i also agree that alone, a slip-on doesn't provide as much of a performance gain unless coupled with more mods, which in turn can only reduce MPG in an attempt to generate more power. there just isn't a whole lot of restriction in the way like, for example, the cats in the OEM header lend themselves to

thanks again & ride safe! ::26::
 
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