Another fragile GS

GrahamD

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Dallara said:
If it turns out a design flaw is what caused that crash it's going to really hurt BMW's credibility with that model. Could really hurt it in the marketplace if the word gets out from under the lid.

Dallara
If you read the Wasser boxer thread on the other site the punters are already trying to spin it as "Operator Error" and "we don"t know" and I don't ride off road that fast" etc etc.

It;s like the shaft drive thing all over again. When BMW come out and say what they say it will be spun, like it always is. The faithful will lap it up, The clueless will just buy one because they are the "best" and have Gadgets and those that sit back and do the research will make an informed decision.

Remember the claimed dodgy shock in the Suzuki TL1000 that threw a Journo off, allegedly. I watch with interest.
 

Dallara

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GrahamD said:
If you read the Wasser boxer thread on the other site the punters are already trying to spin it as "Operator Error" and "we don"t know" and I don't ride off road that fast" etc etc.

It;s like the shaft drive thing all over again. When BMW come out and say what they say it will be spun, like it always is. The faithful will lap it up, The clueless will just buy one because they are the "best" and have Gadgets and those that sit back and do the research will make an informed decision.

Remember the claimed dodgy shock in the Suzuki TL1000 that threw a Journo off, allegedly. I watch with interest.

Yep, Suzuki took a ton of flak about the rotary damper on the TL1000. Shame, too, as the design and engineering principles are sound. Just a small error in execution doomed the concept for motorcycles, at least for now. Funny, too, as rotary dampers have been used in lots of other applications, even F-1. It even has some theoretical advantages over what is commonly used on motorcycles today (the sliding tube damper).

I always wondered if Suzuki just didn't sufficiently test the production models, or if they just got bad batches of dampers from their supplier (I think Kayaba made it for them). Still, the rotary damper makes a lot more sense than BMW's Paralever!!! :D

Dallara



~
 

GrahamD

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Dallara said:
I always wondered if Suzuki just didn't sufficiently test the production models, or if they just got bad batches of dampers from their supplier (I think Kayaba made it for them).
The point I was making is that you had exactly the same kind of conversations going in, as far as I can tell, about that incident.

"It was the Journo who just underestimated the mid range and high sided" Suzuki Faithful
"It was that dodgy new shock" Journo.
"Nothing wrong here, it was just one of those things" Suzuki -- Eventually.

Same kind of thing with the V-STrom "clutch chudder".

BIG problem apparently that noisy clutch. Even though it was never a big problem.

Ducati meanwhile had a clutch with lots of "character". They must know what they are doing they are Ducati. Must be just the way it is.

Meanwhile Suzuki stuck it out and after 10 years has a good solid sales success. BUT they weren't allowed any slack at all.

Well this time BMW can blame Sachs. And Sachs can blame BMW. And they can be all quiet battling it out in court while the marketing department selectively quote the positive bits, ramp up advertising, wait or the magazine awards to roll in, (or else Mr Magazine) and in 2017 when the new model comes out THEN they may admit they had a bit of a problem under very rare circumstances with the front geometry.

Repeat.

Unless a few more people start getting killed / injured on dirt roads. Interesting time to be a fly on the wall I reckon.

Watched the same kind of things for years in other industries. People just want to believe that the big money they just spent was not a waste in any way and the bigger the money the more they will defend it and will lead others into the abyss as time goes on.
 

Rasher

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I liked the telelever, may have been a rip-off but I thought it worked pretty well on the road, sure it won't ever win a GP, but for most riders on the roads it does a fine job, I am not knowledgeable or experienced in off-road so can't make any comments about that, but if Yamaha had a Telelever system for the Tenere I would have still bought one.

I owned a TL1000S and it was a bit slappy without the damper, fine on smooth tarmac and maybe Suzuki just did too much on-track development, plus the bean counters will always downgrade the design engineers spec, just like using cheap rivetts on the Titanic, saved a few quid up front and possibly doomed the ship and hundreds of souls, but never mind lets see what we can save on the next project ::010:: Most suspension is pretty shite, OE shocks are always very cheaply made and often badly sprung / damped and I suspect this is mainly down the process of putting out to tender, whereby the cheapest supplier wins.

BMW seem to be terrible at pre-production testing (or at least over the past 15 years or so) the 1200GS was a disaster in the first few years with loads of weak areas both mechanical and electrical, the '04 - 07 models had so many issues and re-calls, even a revamp in 2008 had not fixed some of the problems and a few persisted into the last of the air cooled models in the 9th production year. K1200's were also awful machines with the 1300 inheriting a number of weaknesses that would not be acceptable from a Japanese machine.

I would not want to comment on what happened to Kevin Ash, although if there is a serious flaw it needs sorting. What is apparent is a number of Journo's on the launch found a stability problem on a route BMW proposed, makes you wonder how much testing they had done :question: Or was all the testing done on pre-production machines with well made one-off components and the production models with the "only-the-cheapest-money-can-buy" components behaved quite differently.

The bike will sell because it is a BMW and half the folks who have owned 1,2,3,3,5,6 GS' in the past will already have their deposits down, Ewan Mc Charley will be dragged out of bed to escort a BMW repair truck along some dusty road, the magazines will all run shootout tests and BMW will time a huge advertising campaign with double page ads in the editions of these magazines with the shootouts, and just by sheer chance the BMW will win the shootout, and BMW will follow up with more double page ads in the next issue of the magazine bragging about their win, which of course has nothing to do with the fact they spent the most on advertising, and porbably is also not connected to the publishing companies senior executives all having high end BMW cars, and they probably paid full price for them anyway.

At the end of the day they are selling shed loads of bikes at premium prices and charging huge amounts for servicing at a time of austerity, whilst cheaper, more reliable better built machines are selling very badly, much as I am for better engineering, testing and reliability, BMW have proved that does not make for a sucesful business, and we (the consumers) are really to blame for lapping up BS and believing all the marketing bollox. Well not "US" as we are obviously the inteligent ones who see through it, but the "average" punter is a bloody idiot :exclaim:
 

GrahamD

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Rasher said:
The bike will sell because it is a BMW and half the folks who have owned 1,2,3,3,5,6 GS' in the past will already have their deposits down, Ewan Mc Charley will be dragged out of bed to escort a BMW repair truck along some dusty road, the magazines will all run shootout tests and BMW will time a huge advertising campaign with double page ads in the editions of these magazines with the shootouts, and just by sheer chance the BMW will win the shootout, and BMW will follow up with more double page ads in the next issue of the magazine bragging about their win, which of course has nothing to do with the fact they spent the most on advertising, and porbably is also not connected to the publishing companies senior executives all having high end BMW cars, and they probably paid full price for them anyway.
:D Classic!

I don't think the average punter is an idiot, but maybe bikes are not their area of expertise, which is why I use the term clueless, which I suppose can be insulting but really I am pretty clueless about lots of things. I probably buy lots of "not very good" stuff for more money than I should and am none the wiser, until I bump into someone who does know what they are talking about.

I am currently working on some LED lights and the more I learn the more clueless I have found I was a week ago. Maybe it would have been better just buying some but I enjoy clue-ing up. ;D
 
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