2012 S10 wont start

[rakhan]

Hello,

I have a 2012 gen 1 S10, and it left me stranded the other day. I went to dinner the bike started up just fine, 10-15 min drive to dinner. I spent a about 1.5 hours at dinner and came out to go home and the bike started then died immediately and would not start again.

Here are the things I tried
1. Tried a battery jump box
2. Tried jumping it off with a car
3. Tried removing the fuel pump fuse and WOT with start, then replaced the fuse and tried to start it again
4. Towed it home let it sit for 2 days on a charger and still wouldn't start

I noticed at some point ( I don't believe it was doing this the whole time) my check engine light was on when I was trying to crank it. I can't remember if that is normal until the bike actually starts or not.

I just learned that you can check fault codes on this bike. so I followed the steps to check those and got the following results

d:15 = 17 (position sensor throttle 2 closed)
d:14 = 17 (position sensor throttle 1 closed)
d:13 = 14 (position sensor throttle 2 closed)
d:08 = 1.1
d:06 = 68
d:05 = 70
d:03 = 100
d:01 = 14 (throttle position sensor closed)
d:62 = 4
d:61 = 30,43,70

I am brand new to interpreting these codes, but from my understanding I have the important ones in parentheses is this correct?

and now for my dumb question, what is a "position sensor throttle? Is that the coil that connects to the spark plugs?
also why are d:13 and d:15 the same sensor?

I am assuming that this is what is causing my starting issues?

I would consider myself decently mechanically inclined but a novice to working on bikes. I'm confident when it comes to changing fluids and brakes, but when it comes to engines an electrical I lack the knowledge, so I want to make sure I don't royally screw something up haha.

Thank you all for any help

 

[Squibb]

On the face of it, you are looking at a failed Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) - there is a check & adjustment procedure in the Service Manual, for both the TPS & Accelerator Position Sensor (APS). Parts #10 & #12 on this diagram:-
......... https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5448875/xt1200z-2012-23pb-europe-bluish-white-cocktail-1/intake-2

However, unless you have experience of FI systems I would suggest this may be best left to a dealer or competent tech. Perhaps you could try lifting the tank though, just to check out the TPS electrical connection on the throttle body.

 

[holligl]

Did you perhaps recently refill with gasoline? Possibly get some bad gas? If this is possible, try some sea foam.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[rakhan]

Did you perhaps recently refill with gasoline? Possibly get some bad gas? If this is possible, try some sea foam.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I don't believe so, I had a about a quarter tank when this happened, and then I even topped off with a gallon of fresh gas

 

[rakhan]

looking more into that diagnosis mode, I think i was worried about the d:13, d:14 and d:15 but I was doing it wrong. I was tryin the throttle to get the full range.

When I turn the key on I get a check engine light, and a code 14,and it also looks like d:61 is indicating something wrong with 30, 43 and 70. But I don't know what these numbers refer to

 

[Jlq1969]

and now for my dumb question, what is a "position sensor throttle? Is that the coil that connects to the spark plugs?
also why are d:13 and d:15 the same sensor?

 

[rakhan]

could this be a bad spark plug issue? its been about the 12k recommended miles to be changed. I will be taking a look at them this weekend, this will be my first time messing with spark plugs. Do those coin sized gauges work ok to gap them?

 

[Squibb]

Whilst I was suspicious of the TPS/APS initially, we really need to know the throttle full open values to pass judgement.

It appears there are 4 errors in the memory (d:62). Only 3 are detailed so one must be duplicated?

Then d:61 logs these, but they could of course be historic just to mislead us: -
30 = Drop sensor - probably historic as d:08 shows 1.1, position sensor fall within normal range. Seems the bike has been dropped at some stage.
43 = Voltage at fuel pump circuit - this one is of interest. Can you hear the fuel system pressurise normally when you first turn on the ignition?
My suspicion though is that you may have induced this error when attempting a restart.
70 = Idling cut-off after 20 minutes. This was auto stop cutting in after the bike had been left idling, so probably historic.

The plugs may well be wet, but given that you rode the bike 15 mins to a venue without problems suggests they are not the root cause here. So, if the fuel pump charges the system readily, my thoughts turn to the side stand/neutral/clutch switch interlock system. This is designed so you cannot start the bike when in gear, with the sidestand down/deployed accidentally. Does the neutral light show correctly on the dash?

 

[rakhan]

Whilst I was suspicious of the TPS/APS initially, we really need to know the throttle full open values to pass judgement.

It appears there are 4 errors in the memory (d:62). Only 3 are detailed so one must be duplicated?

Then d:61 logs these, but they could of course be historic just to mislead us: -
30 = Drop sensor - probably historic as d:08 shows 1.1, position sensor fall within normal range. Seems the bike has been dropped at some stage.
43 = Voltage at fuel pump circuit - this one is of interest. Can you hear the fuel system pressurise normally when you first turn on the ignition?
My suspicion though is that you may have induced this error when attempting a restart.
70 = Idling cut-off after 20 minutes. This was auto stop cutting in after the bike had been left idling, so probably historic.

The plugs may well be wet, but given that you rode the bike 15 mins to a venue without problems suggests they are not the root cause here. So, if the fuel pump charges the system readily, my thoughts turn to the side stand/neutral/clutch switch interlock system. This is designed so you cannot start the bike when in gear, with the sidestand down/deployed accidentally. Does the neutral light show correctly on the dash?

Thank you for your detailed response.


You are right d:62 says 4, but there are only 3 listed under d:61, could that be indicative of something?
I tried giving throttle for the TPS items and they fell into a normal range.

- I have dropped the bike a few times, I off-road my S10 probably more than the average tenere rider
- I can hear the fuel pump pressurize at startup like it normally does

The neutral light does show correctly, and will allow me to crank it with the side stand down in neutral. Is there something else here I should check or be doing?

 

[Squibb]

Well @rakhan , if the WOT readings are all within normal range, you have plenty of fuel in the tank & the fuel pump pressurises the system (for a few seconds, until it stops once charged up), then we are getting into the mystery that is the Hard Start issue, which I'm sure you have read through using 'search' already. I had hoped the codes would give us more of a lead.

Firstly, please can you check each & every fuse for continuity with a meter; don't remove them unless they have failed & need changing. Obviously fuses 3, 4 & 7 behind cowling A are of particular interest, but check everything while you are in there, as well as all the fuses behind cowling B.

Next comes checking spark plugs/coils & a compression test. It's not ideal testing cold, but I was wondering whether there could be an issue with the de-compression system - has any work been carried out recently involving the valve clearances, cam chain or CCT? Clearly a failed CCT can inflict significant carnage.

The plugs will tell a story - we may be expecting them to be wet &/or smelling of unburnt fuel, but make no assumptions. Best fit a new set idc. Then test each of the 4 coils for resistance & report back the readings - make sure each delivers a fat spark when cranking. Finally test each cylinder for compression during cold cranking - readings will be low, but I'm guessing c. 100 psi. Lower/ negligible & we may have a stuck valve or decompressor issue. BTW, if you are satisfied that fuel is being injected OK, then remove the FI fuse during these cranking procedures.

It's a painful process, but keep it methodical - Good luck with the search.