jbrown
Active Member
I think that's your suspension controller.
ECU flash on newer model.
- Thread starter Strummer
- Start date
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
....crap. Welp, give me an extra week or so on that post-flash write up folks! (tucks tail between legs as he walks past the service manual in the garage). #rookiemove
PhilPhilippines
Well-Known Member
LOL. We've all done something similar. I put oil in my Bro's Singer Chamois (Hillman Imp) when I borrowed it. First time I had ever put oil in a car and I was watching for oil in the filler funnel not checking the dip stick.!
"Oh, you w*anker!", or similar, was the response I got when I explained I had "topped" it up as he had requested with a FIVE LITRE can of oil!!!
At least yours looks a bit like an ECU...
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
Oh man! That's topping it off indeed!LOL. We've all done something similar. I put oil in my Bro's Singer Chamois (Hillman Imp) when I borrowed it. First time I had ever put oil in a car and I was watching for oil in the filler funnel not checking the dip stick.!
"Oh, you w*anker!", or similar, was the response I got when I explained I had "topped" it up as he had requested with a FIVE LITRE can of oil!!!
At least yours looks a bit like an ECU...
This forum is awesome though! I really appreciate the teamwork in catching that error for me! Tbh, I was rushing a bit to make it to the post office before the holiday closures and apparently thought my Yamaha was a Kawasaki for a minute! Ha ha! Live and learn. At least you all saved me time in helping me get the REAL (lol) ECU in the mail! 
EnnK
Active Member
I have 2018 European bike and I have absolutely no abruptness problems with factory ECU. Everything is smooth and engine braking suits for me too. I had Fjr 1300 before and that bike was really jearky, pc5 did cure it somewhat but it was never as smooth ST is stock.
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
I'm happy it works well for you EnnK
I do wish I could say the same. I think an important factor that divides riders on this mod is riding style. I ride pretty hard, brake hard and usually seek out the tightest and most technical twisty roads. Whether it be on a tour or weekend rides. The S10's balance and chassis never lets me down (ES settings maxed out for firmness) but the power delivery has.The post flash testimony on this forum has been the most helpful whenever the riding style seems to be similar to mine. That nuance in the testimony is critical imo. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have done it.
I also have taught a few MSF classes on my S10; most recently the Advanced Rider Course. My power delivery experiences/feelings were further confirmed with many of the exercises. Students couldn't tell though
After class, I asked the other instructor to run the S10 through a couple of exercises as well. He felt similarly and I wasn't too surprised because we have a similar riding style (he rides/owns everything from Goldwings, supernakeds, dual sports, mini motos, etc.)So to me, there's a highly subjective aspect to this mod. I'd prefer to not mess with the ECU at all, but my experiences are too real to me and the testimony is too compelling. Considering my riding style, safety via smoother fueling is the priority. Not any hp gains.
If I don't like it, I suppose I'd restore it. Only one way to find out (for me) at this stage of ownership
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
P.S. The ACTUAL ECU is en route to 2 Wheel DynoWorks; NOT the sub par stunt double component (!) A BIG thanks again to all who helped me catch that in the nick of time!
A BIG thanks again to all who helped me catch that in the nick of time! Attachments
Longdog Cymru
Well-Known Member
I have a 2017 European bike and mine is fine too.
I heard the same thing when I was on a Gen I (flashed) and the Gen II came out. A few years later I got a Gen II and it only took one ride to know that the Gen II would also benefit from a flash to get rid of the bog around 2000 RPM, to get eliminate the power limits in the first 3 gears and to smooth out the power delivery and increase the power. It was a dog compared to my flashed Gen I, but a flash and Arrow headers made it a fantastic bike.
yoyo
Well-Known Member
I have to say I'm more than happy with my 2016 bike, I do a lot of slow control when out training and I've never really had an issue. Sport mode is snatchy compared to touring but you quickly learn to ride around it.
Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk
Sent from my ELE-L29 using Tapatalk
Thanks for letting me know the difference.
To be honest the only thing I am not completely happy about is the top end for a lack of better words.
There is no jerkiness at all on my 2020 model...
Maybe in the future I will try a slip on ,maybe an Italian Arrow. You have to support your own country after all...
My Super Tenere is also an EU spec. The bog at 2000 rpm is due to emissions fueling. You won't know how good it can be till you do the flash, then you'll say "Now I get it." I can recommend a really good tuner in the UK, he sold me a flash he developed on the dyno for 200 quid, which was a bargain considering how good it made both S and T modes. Shoot me a PM if you want the info.
For more top end, change the header to an Arrow. That'll have more impact than changing the muffler.
I personally think that is the key. The more you ride, the less it's an issue.
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
I can appreciate that approach (and yoyo's too) but I'm not sure that it can be standardized for all S10 riders. E.g., if we had specialized training checklists/routines coupled with mandatory "flying hours" and an evaluator; at some point, a formal call could made as to whether or not enough muscle memory has been developed/refined to a qualifying point.
Geeky way to contrast my belief that there are way too many variables to almost guarantee that a rider will learn to work around any fueling imperfection if: they get more seat time, do some track days, practice low speed maneuvers, etc.
I'll also add that I'm applying lessons learned from my gen III Versys 650. Six years of ownership and 35k+ miles couldn't make the low rpm throttle response safe enough for me as a rider. Personal preferences/limits apply for sure, but for me, I felt I gave it enough time and technique application; which included multiple track days, teaching many advanced riding clinics on it, temp. installing a G2 Ergonomics throttle tamer, etc.
With the S10, 5,000 miles in and after riding a variety of riding environments (minus track days and dirt) as well as a few tours, I've decided not to delay as I did with my Versys. For me it's a matter safety; the ECU flash is for the times when I can't ride around the fueling imperfections. I suppose if such a solution didn't exist, then I'd force myself to work with it; or just sell the bike
Again, it's all subject to my riding style, comfort and safety level. I state all of this with the upmost respect to all on this thread. Especially our senior and most experienced riders and members.
And, I am basing my opinion on 19 years as a motor cop. Starting with a KZ1000, followed by an RT, and then ST. None of which have much in common. But, with all of them, I learned their difference, and adapted without changing anything other than lever engagement. Low rpm control requires throttle control, and just as importantly clutch, and rear brake control. If you can't combine them correctly, that's not the bike's fault.
I have ridden in all weather conditions, road conditions, and have weeks/months of specialized training. In addition, my personal bike, an '86 FJ which I have had since it was brand new, was used in several MSF courses that are designed for 250cc bikes. I have always preferred my 'ol FJ to any of my work bikes. . . . until the Tenere. This thing dominates in cone courses, which are done at low rpms.
In the training, and at work, some guys just can't pick it up, no matter how much they try and think they can. A lot of guys can operate a motorcycle, but not all can ride a motorcycle. Just like when ask people if they're good drivers. . . . everybody thinks they are.
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
Great points! I definitely understand the concepts of good low rpm bike control
. E.g., running the small bike exercises on my KLR650 is no problem and pretty fun! In a faster environment, I preferred riding a 1998 GSX-R600 over a 2005 ZX-6R. I attribute much of that preference to the oh so smooth carbs of the KLR and the GSX-R. The fueling is just lush! I also have run A and B cornering "tests" on a buddy's 2019 R1200GS. I definitely had smoother operation with that bike too. Same test on a friend's 2014 Multistrada, not so much
In my riding group, I'm know as "Mr. All Stock" guy. Ha ha! All four of my personal bikes are stock. Except for my ER-6N (pro suspension upgrades). One of the smoothest/fastest riders in our group is a licensed racer with a good amount of trophy hardware. One of the reasons I enjoy riding his Hypermotard SP so much is because of all the work he did to the ECU to smooth it out.
All that stated, I definitely believe in the "stay a student" philosophy. I believe I have lots more to learn and experience but looking at my whole person as a rider, I don't think this S10 mod is a knee jerk reaction. I know I can further adapt and work to become an on-road S10 "black belt"
, I'm just choosing not to, and to at least try this option out.That aside, the bike is pretty damn impressive as a overall package. If the flash works to my satisfaction, I'll be looking at ways to further stiffen up the suspension (considering it's an ES).
Anyways, I'll know more soon as the ECU is on its way back from 2 Wheel DynoWorks as I write.
I appreciate all your input Sierra1 and also your dedication to serving and protecting (my brother is NYPD and did motor cop duty). Thank you for all you continue to do
Longdog Cymru
Well-Known Member
It has been said before on here, but there are many people who believe that among the mods/upgrades to post 2014 or Gen 2 bikes was the removal of restrictions in the first 3 gears. Also, my bike is a 2017 U.K. model and it certainly doesn’t bog or stumble around 2000 rpm and I think you will find most will agree with me on that.
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Streethawk
Well-Known Member
2 Wheel DynoWorks flashed ECU has been reinstalled. I had excellent maintenance supervision in the garage ;-)
Much more riding and different roads to test it on, but my initial impressions after a quick 20 minute ride are WOW! Touring is now a usable "urban" mode to me. Sports is now KTM "mode" to me (!!!)
First stop was a large empty parking lot to run some tight and low speed maneuvers in Touring. The flash made it fun and predictable. Second stop was a wide open interstate and a few cloverleaf on/offramps in Sports. The flash has that mode alive and kicking!!! Really wakes the bike up!
I also decided to keep the exhaust stock. I like the sound and as far as the weight ...I'll just shed some pounds myself :-D
Is it worth it? So far, a HUGE yes. I think if you ride hard or really spirited (or if the KTM 1290 Super Duke R is in your top 5 favorite bikes ever ridden) you'll appreciate the flash for how it transforms Sports mode alone. For most other practical riding situations, I feel Touring mode is now way more usable.
I plan to provide longer term feedback with more miles (and smiles).
Much more riding and different roads to test it on, but my initial impressions after a quick 20 minute ride are WOW! Touring is now a usable "urban" mode to me. Sports is now KTM "mode" to me (!!!)
First stop was a large empty parking lot to run some tight and low speed maneuvers in Touring. The flash made it fun and predictable. Second stop was a wide open interstate and a few cloverleaf on/offramps in Sports. The flash has that mode alive and kicking!!! Really wakes the bike up!
I also decided to keep the exhaust stock. I like the sound and as far as the weight ...I'll just shed some pounds myself :-D
Is it worth it? So far, a HUGE yes. I think if you ride hard or really spirited (or if the KTM 1290 Super Duke R is in your top 5 favorite bikes ever ridden) you'll appreciate the flash for how it transforms Sports mode alone. For most other practical riding situations, I feel Touring mode is now way more usable.
I plan to provide longer term feedback with more miles (and smiles).
Attachments
Longdog Cymru
Well-Known Member
It would be interesting to know if Yamaha use different ECU maps according to the country where the bike is to be sold. It well known that Gen 1 bikes benefit greatly from remapping but it seems that the general opinion is that U.K. and European Gen 2 bikes appear to perform quite well as stock.
Streethawk
Well-Known Member
I've never ridden a gen 1 but would like to sometime in the future. It'd be great to have that Yamaha insider info though.
To me, my gen 2 did perform very well stock. A majority of the time, it hit the mark. The (2 Wheel DynoWorks) flash just smooths many edges to get it just about perfect. For me, the throttle response is now very linear and predictable. Almost in a European premium bike sort of way (Ducati, KTM, Triumph, BMW, etc.). I also appreciate that the bike defaults to Touring on every start up. Good post flash safety net.
I would not label this flash critical or essential at all. If you're happy with the stock fueling, then I'd happily roll on with it. I'd say it's more of a personal preference; based on individual riding style and adequate seat time. Maybe the same way, after some time, you decide to get bar risers or different foot pegs, aftermarket seat, etc.
This forum can help in an amazing way with mod decisions such as those and the ECU flash. I'm certainly glad to have become a member!