HARD START

Re: Very hard starting today

If I'm comprehending the dialog correctly as it's been put forth, the object here is to convince Yamaha that we're buffoons rather than concerned, rational consumers.

An issue is when something doesn't go the way it should... Which this clearly doesn't on occasion. An idiot is a stupid, perhaps mentally handicapped person... Which we clearly are not.

Haven't looked in on this thread in a while and was immediately reminded why. An aloof and erudite approach to a mechanical problem isn't helpful. I for one think a new thread for airing pettiness could be started elsewhere so this one could get back to the business of addressing the issue sans ego and ridicule, while perhaps providing the manufacturer with a useful experience base.

Re: Very hard starting today

One of the experienced Yamaha dealers in Germany (Yamaha Voiges) gave us a hint. To deair the motor, following procedure should help:

1. Turn ignition off
2. Press both blacks buttons in the cockpit, turn the ignition on and keep pressing both buttons for 8 seconds (the display will switch to diag mode). Now you can release the buttons.
3. Push booth buttons again for 3 seconds. The display will switch again.
4. Now give full throttle and let the starter turn for 4-5 seconds.
5. Release the throttle and turn the ignition off.
6. Turn the ignition on (display should be in normal mode) and the XT should start without any problems.

http://www.yamaha-voiges.de/images/stories/texte/starten.pdf

With this procedure, the full pump will be deactivated and no fuel will be injected during the deair of the pistons.

A much more simpler procedure is to use a key without transponder. If you start your XT with such a key, the starter will turn but the fuel pump is deactivatet by the ECU.

Re: Very hard starting today

Rainer said:

One of the experienced Yamaha dealers in Germany (Yamaha Voiges) gave us a hint. To deair the motor, following procedure should help:

1. Turn ignition off
2. Press both blacks buttons in the cockpit, turn the ignition on and keep pressing both buttons for 8 seconds (the display will switch to diag mode). Now you can release the buttons.
3. Push booth buttons again for 3 seconds. The display will switch again.
4. Now give full throttle and let the starter turn for 4-5 seconds.
5. Release the throttle and turn the ignition off.
6. Turn the ignition on (display should be in normal mode) and the XT should start without any problems.

http://www.yamaha-voiges.de/images/stories/texte/starten.pdf

With this procedure, the full pump will be deactivated and no fuel will be injected during the deair of the pistons.

A much more simpler procedure is to use a key without transponder. If you start your XT with such a key, the starter will turn but the fuel pump is deactivatet by the ECU.

Click to expand...

That's great info Rainer!! The problem is that there are a few morons on this board that insist the hard start is operator error. If that is the case, then it will be just short of impossible for these "operator error" folks to follow your directions, since supposedly they can't even push a starter button without screwing something up! LOL.

Re: Very hard starting today

Why go through all the trouble of deactivating the fuel pump when the injectors are deactivated simply by going to WOT? And, I also had another hard start. Chevy Cobalt that received a throttle body cleaning. We turned the car over and shook it many times. We then tried starting with WOT. I think the shaking worked, cause it started right up.

Re: Very hard starting today

Rainer said:

A much more simpler procedure is to use a key without transponder. If you start your XT with such a key, the starter will turn but the fuel pump is deactivatet by the ECU.

Click to expand...

FYI, not applicable to NA S10's since they don't use a transponder key. I'm surprised (and a bit skeptical) that Yamaha allows the starter motor to turn the engine over without the transponder - most immobilizer systems deactivate the starter too.

- Mark

Re: Very hard starting today

I have seen this post and once in a while open and read a couple comments and keep coming back to thinking what is the big deal. I will not use my valuable time to read each post and maybe I am missing a huge concern but my 2012 S10 has 40 000kms and the bike had started on first attempts all but 3 times. The 3 times it did not fire up right away, I twisted the throttle a bit, fired up, I went riding and never thought about it again.

Life is short and not always perfect and maybe I am missing a major issue here but I'd rather be riding than worry about something that only requires a bit of patience, common sense, throttle twist and go...
Have a nice day

Re: Very hard starting today

Had the hard start issue on Tuesday AM for the first time. Bike (2013 ST, ~5200 miles) had been sitting for about 2 weeks in the garage on a charger. I never use the kill switch. I think I turned the key on and off a couple of times while it sat when I was re-adjusting the throttle control, but I can't be certain. Regardless, I hit the starter Tuesday AM and the engine didn't catch. I remember reading this thread about 6 months ago, but couldn't remember the remedies. I continued to hit the starter and gave it some throttle. The engine almost caught a few times but never did. I hit the starter and then did WOT. Nothing. I could smell gas. I was certain I flooded the darn thing. I took my gear off and took the cage to work on what was going to be a beautiful 60 degree day in December.

Got home after work and went to start again. Nothing. Tried starting with WOT. Nothing. I went in the house and proceeded to read half of this thread from the beginning. This morning I went out to the bike and did the following:

1. Put kill switch in off position.
2. Put the key in and turned it on in neutral.
3. Put kill switch in on position. (I couldn't hear the fuel pump).
4. WOT first, then hit starter button.
5. Started right up and purred. Let it warm up to about 170 and rode to work.

Lessons learned from this sweet thread:

1. I will always use the kill switch instead of the key to kill the engine.
2. I will always make sure the bike is warmed up to at least 150F if I am going to go a short distance (like getting gas).
3. If I ever kill the engine by accident and it doesn't start up on the first try I will immediately do WOT and then hit the starter button.

Cheers!

Re: Very hard starting today

I just bought a new '14 Super Tenere ES. I won't be picking it up until our snow is gone.

I had the hard start issue a couple of times with my '04 FJR1300, which was new in August of '03.

At that time, there was nothing documenting the issue online. I tore the bike apart to get her going. I removed the tank, plastics, dash, plugs, etc. She was definitely full of fuel.

What finally worked was holding WOT with a fully charged battery. When she fired, she FIRED! It sounded like a pair of shotguns going off.

I've also had it happen on a pair of V-Strom 650's, one was my wife's '05, the other my '06. As soon as issue reared it ugly head, simply opened throttle and hit starter. Fired right up.

Re: Very hard starting today

OK Guys FWIW My Explorer has always started on first touch of the starter button. Today not so fast. Had to crank it 2-3 times before it fired. This happened several times during the day. So maybe they all do it. You get the wrong combination of fuel, atmosphere, and events and the FI gets out of whack? I don't know but I now know that Yamaha isn't alone.

Re: Very hard starting today

Donk said:

OK Guys FWIW My Explorer has always started on first touch of the starter button. Today not so fast. Had to crank it 2-3 times before it fired. This happened several times during the day. So maybe they all do it. You get the wrong combination of fuel, atmosphere, and events and the FI gets out of whack? I don't know but I now know that Yamaha isn't alone.

Click to expand...

Maybe so. But I don't think it's simply a FI "thing" as FI cars that I've driven have never been fussy on start.

Re: Very hard starting today

Donk said:

OK Guys FWIW My Explorer has always started on first touch of the starter button. Today not so fast. Had to crank it 2-3 times before it fired. This happened several times during the day. So maybe they all do it. You get the wrong combination of fuel, atmosphere, and events and the FI gets out of whack? I don't know but I now know that Yamaha isn't alone.

Click to expand...

Agree. My wife managed to get the hard start on her Mazda CX9. When she explained what was happening it was identical to the hard start issue on the Tenere. Even the cause was similar (short start then stop of engine).

Re: Very hard starting today

Today was my turn for the "hard starts" bug. 2013 with 12k miles put on in the last few months, always started right up. Was doing the 12k service and started it once for a minute to verify oil pressure and no leaks after oil and filter change. Replaced the plugs and then started it again before I reinstalled the tupperware to make sure all was OK. The bike sat overnight and I rolled it out in the morning to go riding. Then had a long crank and no start, checked all the usual suspects and found nothing amiss. Tried WOT and eventually it started with a slight smell of raw gas. Shut off and topped up the gas tank, was only a gallon or so low. Started right up and rode 20 miles no problem.

This failure kinda fits the "shut off before warming " theory, as this bike seldom gets started unless I'm going a ways. I roll the bike around intead of starting it to move it around the garage, and as I live 6 miles from the nearest anything I do no short trips. Any ideas?

Re: Very hard starting today

Any ideas? Well,yeah. Don't do things that are known to cause the hard start.

Sorry, but you nailed the cause of your hard start perfectly. You started the bike, briefly ran it, then shut down before it was warmed up, then it sat overnight. That's a perfect hard start scenario.

Re: Very hard starting today

Donk said:

OK Guys FWIW My Explorer has always started on first touch of the starter button. Today not so fast. Had to crank it 2-3 times before it fired. This happened several times during the day. So maybe they all do it. You get the wrong combination of fuel, atmosphere, and events and the FI gets out of whack? I don't know but I now know that Yamaha isn't alone.

Click to expand...

Yea but fords are like Harleys, not a valid comparison ::025::

Re: Very hard starting today

shrekonwheels said:

Yea but fords are like Harleys, not a valid comparison ::025::

Click to expand...

Donk probably was referring to his Triumph Explorer...

Re: Very hard starting today

It is important to differentiate between cars being slightly more difficult to start vs. the S10's total refusal to start. When the S10 has a "hard start" episode IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT START until the operator intervenes with WOT, pulling fuses, replacing plugs, and/or waiting overnight. This isn't anything like a car that occasionally requires a few more seconds of cranking.

- Mark

Re: Very hard starting today

I had the hard start thing today for the second time since I've had the bike. Due I think, as before, by me riding it a very short distance before it had warmed up enough........I forgot !! Kill switch off etc and WOT got it going again. It's irritating if you forget as I did but as there is an easy fix then it doesn't have to be a problem

Re: Very hard starting today

markjenn said:

It is important to differentiate between cars being slightly more difficult to start vs. the S10's total refusal to start. When the S10 has a "hard start" episode IT ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT START until the operator intervenes with WOT, pulling fuses, replacing plugs, and/or waiting overnight. This isn't anything like a car that occasionally requires a few more seconds of cranking.

- Mark

Click to expand...

Cars dont have decompression mechanisms

Re: Very hard starting today

Hard start yesterday, after a two week cruise vacation. All my fault I suppose - I sensed the end result before trying. The battery had lost some juice lying idle for two weeks. I tried to start the bike (2013) and it turned slower than usual and obviously there must have been little power left for the plugs (with 20,000 km or 12,500 miles on them) to fire. This must have choked the engine. I shut it off and put the battery on charge for 18 hours or so and this gave it a full charge. After around 15 seconds with WOT, the bike fired up.

Re: Very hard starting today

I washed the bike yesterday before seeing this thread. After wash, I rode her around the block. This morning, she refused to start. I cranked her over 3 or 4 times and then let her be and went about my business. Came back after lunch, tried again without any luck. I posed on several forums. Someone showed me this thread so I went out and ran the battery down cranking on her till she finally started. Man, that was some foul smelling stuff out the tail pipe. I had a multi meter on the battery while cranking. Went down to 9.6 volts. I stopped. Waited 10 seconds and then she started. Not sure what caused this issue. I will email Yamaha and see what they have to say.