XT1200Z Chassis Comments

[Rick]

Hi Guys,

On paper the S10's flatter steering head angle makes me think the bike will steer slower than my DL1000. The S10 is listed at 28° and the DL at 26.5°. That seems like kind of a lot. I've heard the S10 feels light and is stable. I wonder if the steering head angle has a lot to do with that feeling. Does anyone with both models care to give a comparison between these two models?

 

[Ollie]

I'm curious about this as well. Yamaha only publishes rake but not trail.

 

[Koinz]

I have a dl1k and love how it handles. I guess rake is like Caster on a car alignment. The more caster you have, the straighter it wants to go. Maybe that's why the ST10 reviewers say it feels so "planted" on the road. Probably helps in cross winds too.

would 2 degrees make that much of a difference.

 

[SpeedStar]

On the Stroms many people have raised the forks in the clamps 15-20mm to quicken the steering. How much affect this has, I don't know.
It appears that we will have this option to some extent on the XT forks as there looks to be a consistent diameter at the mounting points before it tapers in. Maybe 15mm worth.
This will also lower the seat height a slight amount.

 

[Rick]

I raised the forks on my DL1000 the 10 or 15 mm's. I did it to help me touch the ground better though. I never really noticed much of a difference handling-wise, or in cross-winds like some people mention. A much better modification for that bike was the upgrade to stiffer fork springs and fresh fork oil. I'm so glad the S10 does not need fork spring upgrades for someone in the 200 lb range. In cross winds these tall bikes with a lot of surface area are going to move around quite a bit. The trick is to stay loose on the bike and let it do its thing.

I wish I knew more about how chassis dimensions affect handling. I think I have a book about it somewhere, I suppose I'll have to re-read it since there is still quite a bit of time between now and AST (After Super Tenere What I'm thinking about today is that the wheelbase of the DL1000 and S10 is virtually identical, but the S10 has 1.5° flatter fork rake angle. Does this make for a lightweight flickable feeling? Is it what allows the weight to be carried low?

 

[ptfjjj]

The Concours had a 28.5o rake and it was very maneuverable. When I took the motorcycle safety foundation advanced rider's course, the other two bikes in my group were a V-Star and a Sportster. My bike was way more maneuverable than those. I was the only participant that was able to complete all of the required maneuvers with no retries on any. The other two riders had numerous sections of the course that they were unable to complete, even after many retries. The instructor/evaluator was a Harley guy and he kept trying to figure out how I was cheating. i think 28o is going to prove to be a very good compromise between stability and maneuverability.

 

[3putt]

Wheelbase enters into the equation also. The K12GT runs down the highway like a freight train, but it doesn't like turning so much and tight twisties are a test of faith and strength. The rake is about 28 degrees but over 62" wheelbase. Super Tenere is what, 60" and 150 lbs lighter? It handles, trust me.

 

[Buckeye56]

When I had the forks worked on on my FZ1, Lee at Traxxion Dynamics told me I could raise the forks 7MM no more, it did make a motivator difference in how the bike turns in and quickens up the steering response. Once the bikes begin being delivered I would imagine the suspension gurus will take a look to see what can be done to improve the forks and shocks and they should be able to give folks guidelines as to how much you can move the forks.

 

[ErnsTT]

First Ride it !


It hears like afficianodo blabbering, but it really is a truly well thought out package, thanks to the 60 cm long swing arm, it look like a Chopper with its "flat" stearing angle, but the whole concept is agile steering *with* offroad stability.

the Driver is placed very near its COG, and the weightdistribution is really incedible, once rolling at walking pace ist like a steamengin, but opening the throttle it transform in the Flying Scotsman, and Blisters the Autobahn, but the real amazing thig happens when taking the exit onto the backroad
The suprise is well downright astonishing, it's like all the non-intrusive electronics take over the stearing into the realm of augmented reality and your imput is put through an invisble exosceleton, flicking the bike like an F16 fighter putting G forces into your Bumm lik our old DB3 liked todo.


look at the difference in Seating between the new Honda Crossrunner, and the XTZ:

The Crossrunner is the overlaying bike, the red dots are the swingarm pivot footrest etc of the XTZ, and look at where the tank and headlights are, and you'll understand,you actually sit like on a WR verry frontup for a Grand Allroad.


and how they did it, it beats me, but it feels much lighterthen my "the Bride Stripped Bare" R3B GS... (appr 215kg)




Still not convinced, look at how this sure te be spill, is just straghtened out by the XTZ Magic, if that happens on a GS, well you can pick up the pieces






Super Ténéré Press ride in Marocco - Day 2


And boy did they succeed, in putting a miracle bike together, there's just one niggle it's so easy and stable flickable, it feels like the footrests are mounted way to low... :'(

 

[eemsreno]

I get out of shape like that on my 125 yz but that would be a hand full on a Super Tenere.

 

[markjenn]

Saves like this have a lot to do with rider skill and luck than the bike. To attribute this to the bike shows puppy love for the bike, but not much else. And I'm not sure what overlaying the chassis geometry of the S10 over a Crossrunner (?!) shows - the Crossrunner is a VFR800 sport-touring chassis with some new bodywork. When you do a similar overlay vs. a product that is actually competitive with a S10 (like a GS), they're extremely close - the biggest difference is the S10 puts the screen and dash quite a bit further forward, which probably helps get more weight on the front wheel (which is good), but usually has more buffeting issues (which is bad).

Sorry, I'm just not buying that the S10 is some kind of major leap forward in chassis design. The tests where the bikes are ridden back to back with a GS say that is is about the same, with a little better rear shock and a front end that feels like a fork rather than a telelever (which is both good and bad). Not much more (or less).

- Mark

 

[GrahamD]

Saves like this have a lot to do with rider skill and luck than the bike. To attribute this to the bike shows puppy love for the bike, but not much else. And I'm not sure what overlaying the chassis geometry of the S10 over a Crossrunner (?!) shows - the Crossrunner is a VFR800 sport-touring chassis with some new bodywork. When you do a similar overlay vs. a product that is actually competitive with a S10 (like a GS), they're extremely close - the biggest difference is the S10 puts the screen and dash quite a bit further forward, which probably helps get more weight on the front wheel (which is good), but usually has more buffeting issues (which is bad).

Sorry, I'm just not buying that the S10 is some kind of major leap forward in chassis design. The tests where the bikes are ridden back to back with a GS say that is is about the same, with a little better rear shock and a front end that feels like a fork rather than a telelever (which is both good and bad). Not much more (or less).

- Mark

From the reviews I get the same impression, but a common theme of owners is to get more "fanboy" as time goes on. ErnsTT AKA (R3B) was pretty much a skeptic in the beginning but there might be some special gas leaking from these bikes, I think ^-^.

They seem to make for happy owners.

Cheers
Graham

 

[ErnsTT]

Saves like this have a lot to do with rider skill and luck than the bike. To attribute this to the bike shows puppy love for the bike, but not much else.

I've been riding Offroad since before i got my license more than 30 years ago, i've ridden almost every conceivable offroad, buit my own SM in 1982 (an XT with the front of an XS650D) and you call my observation puppy love?




have you even ridden the Super Tenere?
I've took years to Switch from my long loved Beemer to something else, because we got fed up *twice* with the pisspoor quality management of their great *riding* bikes (if they are not in the shop for an 3th gearbox or umpteenth software update.

I did not know yet this kind of riding would rip out the rear support of the frame out of the gearbox
I've ridden my R3B like that and made well quite a few scratches in the poor bikes dress.

Sorry, I'm just not buying that the S10 is some kind of major leap forward in chassis design. The tests where the bikes are ridden back to back with a GS say that is is about the same, with a little better rear shock and a front end that feels like a fork rather than a telelever (which is both good and bad). Not much more (or less).

Tests by *road* riders (with well be kind, basic riding skillz) you mean?
Ive tried many a bike, to give that old beemer its well deserved relaxed old day, but all bikes (even the F800GS) could not stand in the shadow of my prupose built GS...


Until the XT1200Z, it's Leaps ahead of the competition, its so F***ing brilliant it *feels* slow in every respect, until you look in your mirror where your mates are...
Any tester not stating the same hasn't tested the tenere's capacaties, we also have an XT660Z, 21" 215 kilos instead of 267 of the GTXT, and way more goodlooking, ihave the luxury to chose whatever i like to ride, but you know what, the lardy Fugly Rhinoceros of a bike is *easier* to handle in really awkward bumpy off road, it doesn't bottomout, and doesn't kick its behind uncontrolable offside.


And boy have i been doing botanic research a lot with my beemer, because the rear wanted to overtake the back.




wait until you ride it, and be amazed, really, its leapsand bounds ahead of the competition, especcially Offroad.


Seen the new Advert yet?
Yamaha Super Ténéré XT 1200 Z schittert in commercial


And for me the last sentence was actually the most compelling reason, to let my girl buy me en new bike for my birthday

 

[motopan]

Hi Rick,

Not sure about the angle stuff, and our new Silver S10 does feel agile enough, but compared to my Honda Transalp, I really do need to counter steer the S10 into every turn at speed. I've only put 500 miles on since we picked it up yesterday at noon, but she is sweet. My wife & I are both 6 footers, but this bike must have been built for giants. I definitely need bar risers, road pegs, and a way to stop the glare from the headlight protectors.

More later, Motopan

 

[GrahamD]

Seen the new Advert yet?

That must be the new bike with special dust repellent technology

 

[Rick]

Saves like this have a lot to do with rider skill and luck than the bike. To attribute this to the bike shows puppy love for the bike, but not much else. And I'm not sure what overlaying the chassis geometry of the S10 over a Crossrunner (?!) shows - the Crossrunner is a VFR800 sport-touring chassis with some new bodywork. When you do a similar overlay vs. a product that is actually competitive with a S10 (like a GS), they're extremely close - the biggest difference is the S10 puts the screen and dash quite a bit further forward, which probably helps get more weight on the front wheel (which is good), but usually has more buffeting issues (which is bad).

Sorry, I'm just not buying that the S10 is some kind of major leap forward in chassis design. The tests where the bikes are ridden back to back with a GS say that is is about the same, with a little better rear shock and a front end that feels like a fork rather than a telelever (which is both good and bad). Not much more (or less).

- Mark

If you're a dirt rider you probably know that some bikes seem to get you into a lot of trouble while others don't as much. On top of that some bikes seem to recover well from things. I'm wondering if the S10 is one of those bikes.

 

[ErnsTT]

On top of that some bikes seem to recover well from things. I'm wondering if the S10 is one of those bikes.

have
Stop wondering, my personal experiences in the Snow last winter with numerous glitches of the front have convinced me the mass-centralisation hype, ain't no hype at all, it feels sooo planted, and when it looses a wheel, it picks it up, like a raw egg, instead of trying to get it scrambled...