Rattling on Start

[Zeth609]

Hey Guys! I come to you because I have a question about yet another weird Super Ten sound. It happens when I start the bike, mostly when it's cold, but not exclusively. It's a loud vibrating sound the first 1 or 2 seconds after I start the engine. Loud, abnormal sound, for 1 or 2 seconds then the sound disappears. I have also noted the vibration and rattling others describe between 3000 and 3500 revs.

I have really ridden my bike, as it now reads 32.000 kms ( 20.000 miles ), and am wondering what this could be. Another friend also owns a Super Ten and this sound does not appear anytime in his bike.

Ideas guys?

Tks.

PS: The ride feels great still, no weird feelings while riding.

 

[carrot]

mine just started making a rattling sound at startup first heard it at 12000 miles. my 2007 r6 started it about the same time i think its the timing chain tensioner but i don't know if its anything to worry about.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

My wife's S10 made that 3 second rattling sound when I started it after having it sit for a week. Very disconcerting, then after 3 seconds it stopped and did not do it again that day. Haven't started it since then. Been wondering if it would do it again next time.

Her bike has around 17K miles.

 

[titsken]

Here in Belgium and Holland several people had the same issue. After checking with a dealer it was the Camshaft chain tensioner who was making the sound.

 

[seatec]

Funny
MY 2010. R1 chain tensioner does the same Thing. Took the Stock one out and put a manual in. NOISE GONE

 

[snakebitten]

My wife's S10 made that 3 second rattling sound when I started it after having it sit for a week. Very disconcerting, then after 3 seconds it stopped and did not do it again that day. Haven't started it since then. Been wondering if it would do it again next time.

Her bike has around 17K miles.

I think this is a likely explanation.
By that I mean, my S10 has done the same thing a very few number times. (15,500 miles)
But ONLY if it had sat a few days. Which has only happened those same few times. (I ride almost every day)

Each time the bike had sat for a few days, it had much increased internal metallic clatter. But in just seconds, it was gone.

I am 99% sure it was just un-oiled parts making un-oiled clatter.
Reminds me of old high mileage pushrod automobiles that took a few seconds to pump oil up and fill the lifters.

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Due to lack of inventory I did an oil change with a different oil this time. Normally I use a Castrol Semi-Synthetic, this past time I use Yamalube on both Teneres. So far it has only happened once, and only to the higher mileage bike (17K vs 12K). Both bikes sat the same number of days (7) between rides.

 

[snakebitten]

I wouldn't be shocked to find some oils be more effective at reducing/eliminating the start-up clatter.

Clingy oil would likely be the good stuff in this case.

 

[Combo]

Due to lack of inventory I did an oil change with a different oil this time. Normally I use a Castrol Semi-Synthetic, this past time I use Yamalube on both Teneres. So far it has only happened once, and only to the higher mileage bike (17K vs 12K). Both bikes sat the same number of days (7) between rides.

Yamalube in a Yamaha? Change that stuff ASAP.

From what I understand, changing oils from time to time may be a good thing for a motor. Don't know for sure. Just some things I have read from some engine guys over the years. :question:

I know, everyone has an opinion on this stuff.......just do not know if it is true and may never know. :-\

Mine:
IMHO

I don't think It makes a hill of beans if you change oils as long as it meets the requirements. ;D

snakebitten,

I agree that some oils do work better than others. I notice more so in the shifting.

 

[markjenn]

I agree with the cam chain tensioner diagnosis. It is harmless if it goes away immediately.

- Mark

 

[stevepsd]

More than likely the cam chain tensioner, since it is hydraulically actuated. After the bike sites for a while it bleeds down and takes a few seconds for the oil pressure to buildup again. In a cursory review of the service manual I see no check valves in the oiling system that would maintain pressure, so it is probably the very close tolerances of the trochoidal oil pump (or possibly a check valve in the oil filter - have not torn one apart to see) slowing the bleed-down and with a little bit of wear it would allow a bit faster bleed down. A higher viscosity oil would slow the bleed down as well, so this would explain why a oil change (or change in oil type) would affect what is observed. I would not worry about it.

 

[Jagermeister]

Great post, thanks ::008::

You must have been the kid that got paid to do others' homework!

More than likely the cam chain tensioner, since it is hydraulically actuated. After the bike sites for a while it bleeds down and takes a few seconds for the oil pressure to buildup again. In a cursory review of the service manual I see no check valves in the oiling system that would maintain pressure, so it is probably the very close tolerances of the trochoidal oil pump (or possibly a check valve in the oil filter - have not torn one apart to see) slowing the bleed-down and with a little bit of wear it would allow a bit faster bleed down. A higher viscosity oil would slow the bleed down as well, so this would explain why a oil change (or change in oil type) would affect what is observed. I would not worry about it.

 

[Zeth609]

Guys you rule.

I think I'm gonna check the cam chain tensioner to see if this is it.
On the Oil issue I used Yamalube (full synthetic) for a long time, but changed to Mobil 1 like 1 year ago, full synthetic. Do you recommend NOT to use Yamalube?

Thanks again!

 

[markjenn]

I think I'm gonna check the cam chain tensioner to see if this is it.

I'm not aware of any "check" that can be made, other than removing it from the engine and checking to see if the piston moves smoothly. I've never taken it off, so I don't know how difficult this is. I doubt it would tell you much.

On the Oil issue I used Yamalube (full synthetic) for a long time, but changed to Mobil 1 like 1 year ago, full synthetic. Do you recommend NOT to use Yamalube?

Yamalube is good oil. So are many others including the Mobil 1. Anything that meets the specs in the OM is fine; beyond this, you're into an "oil thread" debate and there are plenty of them on this and other forums. You could experiment with a few and see if it quiets down the startup tensioner clatter. I doubt it, but you never know.

- Mark

 

[Tremor38]

Guys you rule.

I think I'm gonna check the cam chain tensioner to see if this is it.
On the Oil issue I used Yamalube (full synthetic) for a long time, but changed to Mobil 1 like 1 year ago, full synthetic. Do you recommend NOT to use Yamalube?

Thanks again!

Contrary to what others might rationalize, there IS a procedure for checking the timing chain tensioner in the service manual. First, it calls for a visual inspection for cracks and damage, which many tensioner bodies are susceptible to, BTW. Next is a mult-step procedure which basically checks for smooth operation of the tensioner rod. ::001::

 

[MrMc]

Hi,
I just turned 20,000 MILES on my Tenere &

1- I have the same knocking noise after sitting for a day or more. It seems louder when it has sat on it's side stand & a little less when sitting overnight on the center stand???
2- Plus until the motor is HOT (IE: the cooling fan comes on) there's a rattling - slapping - clicking noise from the valve train area like for example loose valves or a loose cam chain???

Of course the dealer ships says they don't hear a thing . . .

 

[markjenn]

Here's the "check" process for the cam chain tensioner from the service manual...

- Mark

 

[Dirt_Dad]

Here's the "check" process for the cam chain tensioner from the service manual...

Reminds me of reading tax instructions.

I think I need to see a video on this one.

 

[Koinz]

Who knows, maybe there will be redesign of the tensioner to limit bleed down. Anyone familiar with the left side cam tensioners on the oil head BMW models. A little confusion until they figured out what worked. In the end it was a relatively inexpensive fix.

 

[markjenn]

Who knows, maybe there will be redesign of the tensioner to limit bleed down. Anyone familiar with the left side cam tensioners on the oil head BMW models. A little confusion until they figured out what worked. In the end it was a relatively inexpensive fix.

Did this fix myself. Wrote it up on the R1100S board.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/267977-retrofitting-late-model-left-side-cam-chain-tensioner.html

Again, assuming it is just a momentary rattle at startup, I don't think it is of consequence. It wasn't on the BMW R-twins either, but since BMW had put out a new/improved part for the R1200 twins for the left side and it was relatively cheap, I bunch of us did the mod.

I haven't noticed the rattle on my S10, but then I don't worry much about things like this - it's a big twin and will rattle a bit at times. I don't think I'd pull the tensioner or do anything else unless the noise was apparent well after startup.

- Mark