Another ABS question...

[Muppetlab]

Forgive me for my ignorance but ive trawled the forum and whilst i have some useful info some of it is causing me some confusion.
Firstly my abs light has been intermittent after a brake hose and what looked like a long over due fluid change. When bleeding the brakes back up i cycled the abs pump using a jumper wire and got a great pedal and lever. All good until last week when i think the front brake lever went hard after braking for a tight corner. Made me wonder if the light was related. Anyway after leaving the bike for a couple of hours it would generally reset itself, however today the abs light is on and staying on. Ive managed to access the diagnostics (2012 bike) and pulled up some codes (14,22,30,42 and 12). reset all codes and been out for a ride. No codes currently showing but abs light defo still on. Tried braking on gravel and abs is defo not working. Have checked 30amp fuse and fuses in boxes under right cowling all good. Tried the ABS cycling again and now im not getting anything at all happening.

My questions are these if anyone can answer?

1. Is there a separate abs ecu which needs resetting? if so how do i do it? can it be done without expensive computers?
2. which diagnostic numbers relate to the front and rear abs sensors? how do i use them to check if they are okay?
3. Ive seen a combined abs fuel multi function relay on fleabay. where is this and is it likely that one part of this abs side could fail?
4. Does the fact the abs pump wont cycle mean its toast?
5. How do i read abs fault codes as i think there is a way to make the light flash the codes out?
6. Any reference material for diagnostic codes and their meanings would be great and also if anyone has a link to the service manual so i can have a go at this myself it would be appreciated. I fear im probably looking at ABS pump but would rather rule out everything else first.
7. Sorry for all teh questions i realise its a mamoth task but if i can get some codes and at least a reset sequence i can make a good start.

thanks so much
Jez

 

[Boris]

42 is the only code possibly related to your issue,

 

[Boris]

14 is, intake air pressure. 22 is, intake air temp. 30 is, lean angle sensor (bike fallen over), 12 is crankshaft position sensor.

 

[Muppetlab]

Thanks very much thats amazing. I thought if the rear sensor was no good the speedo wouldnt work is this correct?

 

[Boris]

Thanks very much thats amazing. I thought if the rear sensor was no good the speedo wouldnt work is this correct?

Sorry, I don’t know the answer. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will be along soon.

 

[Muppetlab]

no worries thanks i'll check out fault 42 tomorrow, i know the neutral switch is okay as i could work that one out but will check the clutch switch out.

 

[AntrimMan]

the 42 might be being set if you drop the bike with the engine running in gear. For a brief time the rear wheel is turning and the gear backlash promotes stopping and turning again as the engine dies and the front wheel is not turning. An exception is taken to this behaviour. It probably comes from the algorithm used to determine and indicate the forward speed from the rear wheel sensor pulses.
Let me state my only experience is with USDM Gen 1. Not Europe if in fact they are any different.
There is a diagnostic capability for the ecu and a separate diagnostic capability for the abs ecu. No special computers needed for Gen 1.
The ecu fault codes are read as digits on the multi-function meter unit (main cluster). The abs ecu will flash the abs light on the multi-function meter unit (main cluster) you will need to decipher the groups of flashes to determine the abs fault codes. The manual has the code explanations. Usually if you have the codes and ask some one can look it up for you but it can rapidly become more complicated than an internet answer.
All your questions are good ones and indicate a need for a shop manual. Beg, borrow or steal one. The answers are in there, sometimes only after reading the sections several times 'till it sinks in.
Access the diagnostics, record all the indicated faults for reference, clear the faults, operate the machine and see what faults are freshly set.
All the best.

 

[Muppetlab]

Thanks. Do you know of the abs reset procedure of engine kill off and then pressing starter ten times within 4 seconds to wipe codes??

 

[Muppetlab]

Okay so out to test this morning. Jumped abs and think the abs flashing light is giving out just code 63 or 33. This seems to
Indicate either an issue with no power to abs unit, so will recheck fuses and have ago at the abs pump multiplug or front brake mastercylinder pressure awitch which would tie in with the lever going hard maybe but why would pump not cycle if just this? There also seems to be a ticking noise like a relay opening and closing in the area of the abs pump that ive not noticed before. Would this be a relay in the pump or a fuel pump ticking?

 

[Muppetlab]

so ive narrowed it down to code 63 on the abs side. Tried to cycle the pump today and got it to do it once in about 50 tries. abs pump is constantly clicking. checked out the power to the unit and pulled the abs plug all seem okay. will try bleeding the brakes again but i fear it toast. maybe air in the abs pump would cause a pressure switch fault i dont know but when i pull either the brake lever or pedal it sounds like air being pushed about inside the abs module. Might explain why being left over night somehow reset it in the past? I did manage to get hold of a service manual and its a gold mine of info. The cure for code 63 it says is abs pump replacement so i'm preparing for that eventuality.
Does anyone know if air in the unit would cause a code 63 fault?

 

[AntrimMan]

now you have the manual sadly you realize the pressure sensors are internal to the hydraulic unit. No service parts are available. If that is the fault there is no correction possible today by the end user.
The clicking and whirring is mentioned in two separate areas of the manual as being normal during self diagnostics and not a malfunction.
Air in the unit will invalidate the self diagnostics. All diagnostics depend on a substantially air free system. Air in the unit must be bled out. If the entrapped air is the result of accidentally exhausting the reservoir the procedure is to bleed. If the air is introduced because of a pump seal failure any further operation just draws air back in. Pump corrosion is the end of seal life. Again no service parts are available.
Other than a replacement hydraulic unit there are no service parts available, not good news but the state of repair to this ABS system in the US today is complete replacement.
There has been mention of a UK or maybe Dutch re-builder on this forum.
There is the breaker option and the bypass option.
All the best.

 

[bimota]

these may help if your UK.

may be handy company UK advertising ABS module repair

https://www.carmoelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=493_6257_6267&fbclid=IwAR1rkPjlhIWHgKJIt4HXenlFDzai5_TJfcuYVgYqZv42qLwyzg0jjEQhx3A rob

yamahasupertenere.com

ROB

 

[alejofly]

Forgive me for my ignorance but ive trawled the forum and whilst i have some useful info some of it is causing me some confusion.
Firstly my abs light has been intermittent after a brake hose and what looked like a long over due fluid change. When bleeding the brakes back up i cycled the abs pump using a jumper wire and got a great pedal and lever. All good until last week when i think the front brake lever went hard after braking for a tight corner. Made me wonder if the light was related. Anyway after leaving the bike for a couple of hours it would generally reset itself, however today the abs light is on and staying on. Ive managed to access the diagnostics (2012 bike) and pulled up some codes (14,22,30,42 and 12). reset all codes and been out for a ride. No codes currently showing but abs light defo still on. Tried braking on gravel and abs is defo not working. Have checked 30amp fuse and fuses in boxes under right cowling all good. Tried the ABS cycling again and now im not getting anything at all happening.

My questions are these if anyone can answer?

1. Is there a separate abs ecu which needs resetting? if so how do i do it? can it be done without expensive computers?
2. which diagnostic numbers relate to the front and rear abs sensors? how do i use them to check if they are okay?
3. Ive seen a combined abs fuel multi function relay on fleabay. where is this and is it likely that one part of this abs side could fail?
4. Does the fact the abs pump wont cycle mean its toast?
5. How do i read abs fault codes as i think there is a way to make the light flash the codes out?
6. Any reference material for diagnostic codes and their meanings would be great and also if anyone has a link to the service manual so i can have a go at this myself it would be appreciated. I fear im probably looking at ABS pump but would rather rule out everything else first.
7. Sorry for all teh questions i realise its a mamoth task but if i can get some codes and at least a reset sequence i can make a good start.

thanks so much
Jez

Hi Muppetlab. I had a very similar situation with my ABS unit. Starting with the light on and Off randomly, then permanent all the time, but reset any time the bike was OFF, Getting those faulty codes, and finally stopping the cycling maneuver. Unfortunately, in my case, the problem was the circuit board. Here in Colombia, we have a Guru Mechanic knowing all the tricks and faults of our ST ´s , the guy is very well known around the country, especially for his ABS repairs. Usually is very successful on it... but in my case, he could not make it work. I ended up finding a secondhand unit and installed it again... no problems so far. I will try to answer your questions from my experience:

1. The only ECU is the one in the ABS module. No need for more than the jumper and the bike dash to read the codes and do all the reset things.
2. The workshop manual which is in the library of this group, will tell you how to proceed to verify all the ABS system. Check the troubleshooting of each Error, and using the dash you will check sensor by sensor to discard problems.
3. The only relay I know for the ABS is the same one to start the bike.. feeding the starter motor. I don't know what you mean by ABS fuel multi-function. If you have a link I could take a look.
4. Could be a few problems: the internal brushes, or rust, or circuit board... but the only way to know it, is to read the codes or send it to a repair workshop.
5. you can read the codes using the blinking ABS led, it is the only way. Take a look at this video to do it. it is very simple.

6. All you need is the workshop manual, but will not give you details to disassemble the unit to do checks... only gives you general information to determine faults and some are very shocking: replace the entire unit.
7. I passed through this nightmare last year, I do all the mechanics to my ST, so I learned how to dismount the unit, purge brakes, find codes, etc. All the info is on the manuals, some other you could find it using youtube. In the same channel I Shared in item 5 I have a couple more info related to solving ST problems.

Good Luck, unfortunately, Yamaha decided to control Speed, Gear shift, cruise, ABS, TCS, etc using that unit.

Alejo

 

[Muppetlab]

Thanks sooooo much for all the replies. After bleeding the hell out of it today i did get the pump to cycle once but it just wont cycle so i cant make sure its not got air in. I have a good lever and pedal and have checked front and rear sensors. Its been really useful
learning this stuff as im going on a 3500 trip in just over a month so useful to know how everything works. Fitted new pads and discs so apart from the pump all good. My code is 63 and ive exhausted all options other than bypass or as antrimMan suggested replacement. Ive found a new pump thats pretty expensive but 2/3 cheaper than most other suppliers so fingers crossed it works. I really like the ubs and the safety net of abs so a bypass is an absolute last resort for me. I’m guessing it would need to be declared as a mod for insurance purposes which im also not overly keen on. I will try and update once the new pump is fitted. Fingers crossed. I suspect this issue in my case was caused by the bike sitting for a couple of years during covid by the last owner.

 

[Muppetlab]

Update: i purchased a genuine yamaha pump from webike japan. Imported to uk where it sat for nearly 4 weeks in customs , paid the tax. Costs less than half the UK price. Webike were faultless. Fitted pump and bled and cycled pump several times issue seems fixed. I should have trusted the yamaha diagnostic system as it was spot on with my error code. Fingers crossed Its all good from here.