yen_powell
Well-Known Member
I used my CX for a few weeks despatching in London. Home each night with a soot covered face and a headache is how I remember it, but the bike was perfect for that.
XT1200 Super Tenere dropped by Yamaha in Europe/UK
- Thread starter Sussexmariner
- Start date
Donk
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the S10 was originally made to compete with the oil head GS when it came out and BMW updated the GS the next year. That put the S10 a bit behind the sales curve since day 1. While it’s been a slow and steady seller for Yamaha I can see why they didn’t invest to make it EU5 compliant. On the other hand EU5 has been on the horizon so they knew it was coming when they did the Gen2 updates. Who knows what Yamaha is thinking. I’m sure we here in the US will continue to get the last of the inventory for the next couple of years. Yamaha’ already deprecated their tooling down to zero so they can pump out a few more bikes with minimal added investment. I remember BMW discontinued the K1300S in ‘12 or ‘13 and they had model year ‘15 bikes at dealers. Sad part is the S10 while underwhelming in some respects is the 1 bike I would choose to ride through a nuclear wasteland. Just a good steady eddy ride.
I just don't see Yamaha giving up on the S10. Maybe it will disappear for a year or so, and come out with a new version. The market is too big for them to not have something in the heavyweight adventure segment. They have been pumping out new/updated models of the popular models, so the S10 not being a bigger seller, it will be the one they work on after those are out. Problem is, this is a needed refresh that you can't just slap some lipstick on, and call it good.
dell835
Active Member
S10 needs a refresh to compete but it doesn’t really need much improvement to do what most riders realistically do.
I don't think the S10 was built to "compete" with the GS. The S10 was created as one more motorcycle in the segment of the “Adventure” maxi trails. The Japanese do not compete with the Europeans ... the Japanese show a philosophy, and "their" customers buy "that philosophy" ... which is basically reliability, simplicity, durability, after sales service ... and I think S10 perfectly fulfilled these objectives, after 10 years ... Some European manufacturers created a new segment, the "super sport Adventure" ... it will be BMW, which will have to see how it competes with the 160HP or the V4 .... Hardly the Japanese factories put up a fight, they stay true to their philosophy. Even Honda or Suzuki with their most recent models, denote their lack of interest in competing for the escalation of HP ... They compete among themselves ... and I think they still do not get close to the old S10 created 10 years ago ...
gunslinger_006
Well-Known Member
I like your take on this.
I think there is a clear rift between “adventure” bikes and “super sport adventure” in which i would place both KTM and BMW, maybe also ducati.
I strongly prefer the Japanese philosophy on adventure bikes being reliable first, almost to the point of being boring (looking at you vstrom) over the german “racebike with lights and farkles” concept. I am glad that both segments exist alongside each other.
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+1. More opinions from me. Reliability is number one. But, they're not averse to performance either. (Vmax, R1/6, MT) So, if they wanted the T12 to be a power house, they could have made it such. The T12 is exactly the bike they want it to be. It would also explain why there have been so few changes over the years. Most of the changes have been tweeks to improve the bike, and increase the reliability. My only question is do they remain "true" to their past, or do they succumb to peer pressure? Guess we'll find out.
Donk
Well-Known Member
Well I for one was looking at a GS when I first sat on an S10 and how many S10 owners previously owned a GS? Of course they compete and if the GS wasn’t such a big sales success than the S10 may never have been. Don’t get me wrong I’m no GS fan I’m just objectively looking at the market that the S10 has to exist in.
Xclimation
Well-Known Member
2023 Yamaha Super Ténéré ES Adventure Touring Motorcycle - Photo Gallery, Video, Specs, Features, Offers, Inventory and more
2023 Yamaha Super Ténéré ES Adventure Touring Motorcycle
Maybe. . . . maybe not. Is Yamaha competing with Beemer. . . . or the other Japanese brands? I think the T-12 has more in common with the Versys, A.T., and V-Strom, than the GS; or even the KTM or Triumph. And, depending on your personal point of view, Yamaha is more than an equal to the Japanese competition.
I understood when the bike was released that it was pointed at BMW. More than the displacement, the ergonomics were nearly 1 for 1 copies of those on the GS. The Tenere in weight was between the GS and GSA with some attributes of each.
The AT didn't yet exist in 2010 when the Tenere was first sold let alone when designed before that, the Strom 1000 was a very different street oriented bike, KTM was selling the 990, the Tiger was the 1050 with 17" wheels, and the Versys was a funky little 650.
The AT didn't yet exist in 2010 when the Tenere was first sold let alone when designed before that, the Strom 1000 was a very different street oriented bike, KTM was selling the 990, the Tiger was the 1050 with 17" wheels, and the Versys was a funky little 650.
Which made the T-12 the "big dog" from Japan. So, are Honda, Kawi, and Suzuki competing with Yamaha. . . . BMW, or both? Yamaha tried taking on the Gold Wing, apples to apples with the Venture Royale. Didn't do so well. "I" think Yamaha does their own thing. . . . for their own reasons. I agree that Yamaha saw an opportunity in the adventure niche. And, BMW had been doing it, successfully, for awhile. But, Yamaha took a slightly different path. For better or worse; of course "I" think for the better. But, I'm satisfied with the path they chose. . . . a lot of people aren't.
B
ballisticexchris
Guest
My research was relentless when choosing this segment of bike. I simply do not have enough zeros in my bank account nor the patience for being left stranded. Otherwise I would have chose a different bike. My Super Tenere fully loaded is less than half the cost of a stripped down GS.
Since 2020 the Super Tenere has no longer been producing a new model. They are going to use the tooling and what they have left until it is no more. It was a great bike while it lasted. Almost a 9 year run and one model change is impressive for a bike in this segment.
Since 2020 the Super Tenere has no longer been producing a new model. They are going to use the tooling and what they have left until it is no more. It was a great bike while it lasted. Almost a 9 year run and one model change is impressive for a bike in this segment.
gunslinger_006
Well-Known Member
There will be parts for the tenere for a decade after it leaves production. That sounds like enough time for me to mile out this one ans another one....
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Steve_h80
Member
It's a shame, but not unexpected.
Sales of the Ten12 have never been that big compared to the opposition and the engine has only ever been used in the one bike, its most likely uneconomic to update the engine. I doubt they have ever made much money on the big Ten, not even on parts because it doesn't break down enough!
Does Yamaha need to replace the Ten? I'm not so sure. The adventure/big trailie market has got overblown and is now moving toward lighter/ less powerful bikes. The Ten7 which is a better bike for offroad stuff, and the engine is used across a range of bikes so bringing economy of scale.
Although with the loss of the FJR too that leaves Yamaha without any big touring bike (I'm not including the Ventura thing because that's a cruiser and the Tracer 9 because that's a bit cramped for two fat westerners + luggage).
I expect we'll see something new before too long, possibly two styles sharing the same shaft drive, big engine format.
Sales of the Ten12 have never been that big compared to the opposition and the engine has only ever been used in the one bike, its most likely uneconomic to update the engine. I doubt they have ever made much money on the big Ten, not even on parts because it doesn't break down enough!
Does Yamaha need to replace the Ten? I'm not so sure. The adventure/big trailie market has got overblown and is now moving toward lighter/ less powerful bikes. The Ten7 which is a better bike for offroad stuff, and the engine is used across a range of bikes so bringing economy of scale.
Although with the loss of the FJR too that leaves Yamaha without any big touring bike (I'm not including the Ventura thing because that's a cruiser and the Tracer 9 because that's a bit cramped for two fat westerners + luggage).
I expect we'll see something new before too long, possibly two styles sharing the same shaft drive, big engine format.
my 2 pennies worth on the big 10.
i have had a few big adventure bikes, i like the look and comfort of these big adventure bikes, but being over 6 foot and 16 and a half stone plus all my holidays are 2 up, alot of us and i mean alot of us have to have these big ones, as any smaller 700-900 bikes don,t work
rob
i have had a few big adventure bikes, i like the look and comfort of these big adventure bikes, but being over 6 foot and 16 and a half stone plus all my holidays are 2 up, alot of us and i mean alot of us have to have these big ones, as any smaller 700-900 bikes don,t work
rob
Steve_h80
Member
I agree with you there Rob. I wouldn't be surprised to see a big bore version of the 900, hopefully with shaft drive, used in both a replacement tourer and adv/tourer.
Yamaha has a habit of evolving engines this way, Tenere 750 to TDM 850 to TDM 900 to XTZ 1200 and similar with the litre sportbike mill to the FJR13 so it makes sense to develop the triple further.
Yamaha has a habit of evolving engines this way, Tenere 750 to TDM 850 to TDM 900 to XTZ 1200 and similar with the litre sportbike mill to the FJR13 so it makes sense to develop the triple further.
gunslinger_006
Well-Known Member
I took a hard look at the tracer gt and if there were no more teneres and mine exploded...i think i could make that work. Id give up ground clearance, but the ergos are very close. Slightly more rearward foot position for the tracer.
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sky4
Active Member
i'm with you there. I am hard pressed to buy an R12 over a tenere. the tenere just WORKS. the R12 has more gadgets and more cool factor depending who you ask. If you're buying an all purpose motorcycle to ride great distances reliably and comfortably the super tenere is it. Is it 25 lbs heavier? sure, but it's a yamaha so i'm not gonna have to push it.
Johnwesley
Well-Known Member
i had the opportunity to take a friend of mines gs on a 4,000 mile trip all roads, paved and dirt. It was a great trip and a neat bike. my wife has a S10 2014 model, so I have put a few trips on that one. Over all I like the ten better, but I’ll give the bmw this, it has much better suspension out of the box. Something I’ll have to work on on my 2019. Maybe next winter.