Will you take the vaccine

will you take the vaccine

  • yes

    Votes: 91 37.0%
  • no

    Votes: 24 9.8%
  • maybe later

    Votes: 21 8.5%
  • heck no

    Votes: 30 12.2%
  • BTDT - Got the shot

    Votes: 80 32.5%

  • Total voters
    246
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Sierra1

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Which brings up the question of semantics: a vaccine provides immunity from a disease . . . .
Agreed. But we had to call it something easy. :D

One's immune system is like a castle wall. The vaccine makes it stronger. But, after repeated attacks on that wall, it becomes weaker. Then one day, it doesn't take much of an attack to knock the wall down. Each time a person comes in contact with an unvaccinated, and infected person, that's an attack on your immune system. Sooner or later, even with the vaccine, with enough contact(s), your wall is coming down.
 

pooh and xtine

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Covid had revealed some inconvenient truths about the West. We’re increasingly fat and old, kept alive by modern medicine and over nutrition (Africa has a much younger, slimmer population and has resisted the pandemic).

Our ignorance of cold viruses has been woeful - colds spread and everybody catches them, but huge numbers are asymptomatic. You can lock down, wear masks, wash your feet, do the hokey cokey, but you’ll just delay the inevitable: everybody will get it. We’ve just never tested people to see how many have this year’s cold or how it spreads and mutates.

We are unable to interpret statistics. We get obsessed with absolute numbers, get fixated on just one number and we deliberately overstate them in the name of drama, sensationalism and fear.

We love to rely on anecdotal evidence if it fits the narrative (“my postman knows someone who ran 2 marathons a week and he died of covid”).

We worship experts, the very people who have a vested interest in their own self aggrandisement, funding and future importance. If you ask a risk expert he’ll find something risky, otherwise what is he for?

However, we don’t like experts if they express opinions that don’t fit the dramatic narrative (children aren’t affected by covid, the average age of those dying with covid is higher that the average life expectancy, we’ve treated covid at the expense of every other disease and condition etc.).

We’ve no idea how many people have had covid because most don’t even know they’ve had it. So we’ve no idea if or when we reached herd immunity.

We are unashamed virtue signallers (I wear a mask ‘cos I’m more caring than you are).

For all our cleverness, we can be pretty stupid.
 

MattR

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My son and his mates refused to get vaccinated. His mate went down with the Rona and needed two spells in ICU and thought he was going to die. His mate tells him that he wished he’d got vaccinated. My son still refuses to get vaccinated. Several more of his unvaccinated mates and their parents have now got Rona. He still refuses to have the vax. He’s not stupid, he’s an engineer and he knows stuff. But somewhere along the line he’s been exposed to some sort of radicalisation that is so strong that hard evidence cannot counter it.


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Checkswrecks

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I've supposedly been part of three [non]conspiracies, one of which was 9/11. What a bunch of delusional cr@p.
Why people believe in conspiracy theories is well known, yet it's going to continue:

As for people believing they have freedom to not get the vaccine where it has been mandated: If you believe in the Constitution then you need to accept and abide by Supreme Court decisions, even if you don't like them. It was 116 years ago when the Supreme Court ruled that the rights of an individual's choice about getting a vaccine ended when the person NOT getting the vaccine threatened the freedom of others they might come in contact with. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
So yes, vaccinations MAY be compulsory and there is nothing to debate.
 

Mak10

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Except there are problems with this. You are using a Supreme Court decision based on State laws. Laws passed by state elected legislature. Not presidential executive orders.

Does this not bother anyone? Regardless of political party this is a gross overstep of federal power.
 

Ric H

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Except there are problems with this. You are using a Supreme Court decision based on State laws. Laws passed by state elected legislature. Not presidential executive orders.

Does this not bother anyone? Regardless of political party this is a gross overstep of federal power.
The only thing that bothers me is that the Canadian government has opened our border to Americans.
 

MattR

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Except there are problems with this. You are using a Supreme Court decision based on State laws. Laws passed by state elected legislature. Not presidential executive orders.

Does this not bother anyone? Regardless of political party this is a gross overstep of federal power.
Am I right in thinking that the Supreme Court judges are appointed by the elected president and are therefore loaded towards whichever party appointed them? Didn’t we just hear that with the last appointment the Supreme Court is now overwhelmingly from the Republican Party?


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Scoop47501

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Am I right in thinking that the Supreme Court judges are appointed by the elected president and are therefore loaded towards whichever party appointed them? Didn’t we just hear that with the last appointment the Supreme Court is now overwhelmingly from the Republican Party?


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And before that it has a liberal majority. It swings one way then the other. When the next couple of old timers die or retire the dynamic will change again
 

AVGeek

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We have veered into political territory here, and the slope is extremely slippery....so far, everyone has been civil (thank you for that), but has often been noted, opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one...

Am I right in thinking that the Supreme Court judges are appointed by the elected president and are therefore loaded towards whichever party appointed them? Didn’t we just hear that with the last appointment the Supreme Court is now overwhelmingly from the Republican Party?
While the President nominates candidates for the Court, they must be approved by Congress. This is one of the checks and balances built into our Constitution, and generally leads to more moderate justices. We have seen, even recently, that the justices don't always necessarily "side" with "their" party, depending on their interpretation of the law and legal precedents that apply to the case (and the SC is mostly seen as an interpreter of laws passed by our state and Federal legislatures).

Getting back on topic, I can only share my personal experience with the virus. I have both 1st and 2nd degree connections to people who have succumbed to the virus. I also strongly believe that I did become infected, even after being "fully" vaccinated, even though every COVID test I have taken has come back negative. In no way would I consider my case to be a "mild" infection, as I have never been that sick in my entire life. My wife very nearly took me to the hospital because I had shortness of breath, but fortunately it didn't last that long and I recovered. I also am very concerned about long term damage to my lungs, since both my paternal grandmother and my father passed from pulmonary fibrosis, even though there is no evidence of genetics playing a role in that coincidence. (for my grandmother, it was most likely caused by exposure to asbestos when she was younger, and in my father's case, it was most likely his lifelong smoking habit and his time in the fire department).

This particular virus, and the vaccine, both have short and long term effects that we will be learning about for years to come. Right now, the push is to deal with the emergency of the short term, and make adjustments as we learn more about the long term.
 

Sierra1

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So, what I'm seeing. . . . is that a lot of people aren't getting the vaccine because they're being told by the government that they have to. W . . . T . . . F? That is literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Because if people were honestly afraid of the vaccine, they wouldn't being willing to trade their long term health . . . . for $100, or tickets to an event.

AVGeek is spot on, about taking care of the here & now emergency.
 

WJBertrand

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Which brings up the question of semantics: a vaccine provides immunity from a disease (https://www.britannica.com/science/vaccine). The current "vaccine" actually falls under the definition of a therapeutic, as it does not provide immunity. Again, not making a case for anti-vaxers, just looking at all sides of the debate.
I don't see anything in that definition that disqualifies the Covid vaccine as a vaccine. The definition says nothing about how long the vaccine should last as a qualifier for the title. In fact it refers to flu vaccines frequently as examples of different types of vaccines and those are known to be temporary.
A therapeutic by contrast (and definition) is a substance used to treat or relieve an existing condition or illness rather than as a preventative. A vaccine is not given to someone as a therapeutic when they are already ill with the disease. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/therapeutic
 

Wallkeeper

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So, what I'm seeing. . . . is that a lot of people aren't getting the vaccine because they're being told by the government that they have to. W . . . T . . . F? That is literally cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Sometimes insisting that something is ones "Right" does not make what ever one wants to do "Smart" Often enough what some one is insisting on is straight up foolish. The debate around helmet laws is a case in point.
 

fac191

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Covid had revealed some inconvenient truths about the West. We’re increasingly fat and old, kept alive by modern medicine and over nutrition (Africa has a much younger, slimmer population and has resisted the pandemic).

Our ignorance of cold viruses has been woeful - colds spread and everybody catches them, but huge numbers are asymptomatic. You can lock down, wear masks, wash your feet, do the hokey cokey, but you’ll just delay the inevitable: everybody will get it. We’ve just never tested people to see how many have this year’s cold or how it spreads and mutates.

We are unable to interpret statistics. We get obsessed with absolute numbers, get fixated on just one number and we deliberately overstate them in the name of drama, sensationalism and fear.

We love to rely on anecdotal evidence if it fits the narrative (“my postman knows someone who ran 2 marathons a week and he died of covid”).

We worship experts, the very people who have a vested interest in their own self aggrandisement, funding and future importance. If you ask a risk expert he’ll find something risky, otherwise what is he for?

However, we don’t like experts if they express opinions that don’t fit the dramatic narrative (children aren’t affected by covid, the average age of those dying with covid is higher that the average life expectancy, we’ve treated covid at the expense of every other disease and condition etc.).

We’ve no idea how many people have had covid because most don’t even know they’ve had it. So we’ve no idea if or when we reached herd immunity.

We are unashamed virtue signallers (I wear a mask ‘cos I’m more caring than you are).

For all our cleverness, we can be pretty stupid.
Africa resisting the virus, LOL.
 

Wallkeeper

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pooh and xtine said:

"We’ve no idea how many people have had covid because most don’t even know they’ve had it. So we’ve no idea if or when we reached herd immunity."

Pooh
I have been trying to understand the conclusion implied in this statement. My struggle is the proof of this statement is perilously close to proving the negative. As I considered it, the proof of this may be in a large random population sample where everyone is tested and evidence is found of people being asymptomatic and not knowing they were infected. I have been looking and not found it. I recognize your sources are likely not the same as mine. Can you point me in the right direction?

Thank you
Wally
 

Sierra1

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. . . . The debate around helmet laws is a case in point.
I think I know what you mean. And, I don't understand the debate about helmets or seatbelts. I didn't start wearing either because of the law; neither were on the books at the time. Seatbelts because I could go around corners faster without sliding across those big bench seats. Helmets because they make riding more enjoyable since there's no bugs in my eyes or nose.
 

WJBertrand

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The main difference is that the failure to use helmets, contracting heart disease or cancer are not conditions communicable to others. I sound like a broken record, but even as a dyed in the wool, card-carrying Libertarian, I still believe there's an important element of social responsibility regarding vaccines. I am however completely against government mandates, but disappointed more folks don't feel this responsibility . If private, non-governmental, entities want to enforce vaccines and other precautions, that's their decision. Most private entities have outlawed smoking as there is wide recognition that smoking doesn't just affect the smoker. This is the closest analogy I can think of.
 

Scoop47501

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pooh and xtine said:

"We’ve no idea how many people have had covid because most don’t even know they’ve had it. So we’ve no idea if or when we reached herd immunity."

Pooh
I have been trying to understand the conclusion implied in this statement. My struggle is the proof of this statement is perilously close to proving the negative. As I considered it, the proof of this may be in a large random population sample where everyone is tested and evidence is found of people being asymptomatic and not knowing they were infected. I have been looking and not found it. I recognize your sources are likely not the same as mine. Can you point me in the right direction?

Thank you
Wally
I understand what Pooh is talking about. Case in point. I volunteer at a Christian summer camp and last year on the first week of summer camp they had a covid outbreak. there were 27 positive cases recorded there. However the camp manager and his family of a total of six people came down with symptoms but did not bother to get tested. They did quarantine for 2 weeks and are fine now. Their cases were never recorded.
Also My wife and I had friends over for dinner a couple weeks ago. The next day he got sick and his wife four days later. Both tested positive . My wife and I did not get any symptoms and did not get tested either. Were we positive but a symptomatic or did our vaccine 100% protect us ? We'll never know because we did not get tested.
I realized this is not scientific but a few examples of the kin d of things going on and I'm sure that's happening all over too.
 

Sierra1

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. . . . Were we positive but a symptomatic or did our vaccine 100% protect us ? We'll never know because we did not get tested.
I realized this is not scientific but a few examples of the kind of things going on and I'm sure that's happening all over too.
I don't really see the point of testing at this stage. . . . sort of. I know I read somewhere that if a person was completely vaccinated, they could not be carriers. It didn't make sense then, and apparently they've found that it's not true. Even if vaccinated, and asymptomatic . . . . you can still spread the virus. I found this yesterday:

CDC recently updated its guidance for fully vaccinated people, including what they should do if exposed to someone with COVID-19. If you are fully vaccinated, and you do not have any symptoms of COVID-19, you do not need to quarantine at home. However, you should get tested 3–5 days after the exposure, even if you don’t have symptoms, and wear a mask indoors in public for 14 days following exposure or until your test result is negative. Aug 31, 2021

I read that to mean if you're vaccinated, and test positive, you have the virus for 14 day, or a negative test result. Which means you can transmit it. The part I have a problem with is that they say you don't have to quarantine. That's putting too much faith in a mask in my opinion.

My wife is to get tested tomorrow due to an exposure last Thursday to a co-worker who is vaccinated, but now showing symptoms. We're vaccinated, and have no symptoms. But, little baby Sparticus isn't vaccinated. So, before his next visit, we need to find if we're carriers. Not a big deal, considering the potential negative repercussions.

Numbers are meaningless. We need to act responsibly and protect each other.
 
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