Will you take the vaccine

will you take the vaccine

  • yes

    Votes: 91 37.0%
  • no

    Votes: 24 9.8%
  • maybe later

    Votes: 21 8.5%
  • heck no

    Votes: 30 12.2%
  • BTDT - Got the shot

    Votes: 80 32.5%

  • Total voters
    246
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Sierra1

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As with any statistic, you can find the numbers to support your agenda. What bothers me is the people that try to brush off the danger of covid. Are there more dangerous/deadly things out there? Of course. Does that make covid any less dangerous? Hell no. Especially if you're one of those that it kicks the shit out of. Just because it doesn't affect you personally, why would you endanger somebody. . . . anybody. . . . needlessly. To do so is just F'n selfish. Take the vaccine, or don't, obviously your choice. But, in the mean time, mask up, and limit contact. . . . shouldn't be an issue for anybody; no rights infringed on.
 

regder

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Toronno
What's interesting is a Johns Hopkins study that showed during the 10 months of covid in the US, the number of people dying of heart disease -- the leading killer of elderly in the US -- plummeted. Which suggests that most deaths blamed on covid actually had other underlying causes. JH quickly retracted the paper after anti-lockdown conservatives highlighted it, but the authors stand by the data, which was taken from the CDC.
Do you have a link to the study? I couldn't find it with a quick google search.

I do find the comorbidities discussion interesting. I think it would be fair to say (someone please correct me if wrong) that the large majority of Covid deaths do have an underlying health issue (diabetes, heart disease, cancer (current and past), etc. In those Covid deaths, the health issue would likely be under decent control were it not for Covid. Top google answer was this CDC page stating 6/10 Americans have a chronic disease, that's a lot of people that would be extremely negatively affected by Covid, https://www.cdc.gov/chronicdisease/resources/infographic/chronic-diseases.htm


As per the initial question, I can't wait to get the vaccine. I have too many people around me that have currently managed health issues.
 

Wallkeeper

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According to Parliament UK, 70,000 UK civilians lost their lives in WWII.

The latest UK govt. stats say around 61,000 Britons died of Covid.

According to the British Heart Foundation, heart disease kills 170,000 Britons every year. That's nearly three times the number of Covid deaths.

What's interesting is a Johns Hopkins study that showed during the 10 months of covid in the US, the number of people dying of heart disease -- the leading killer of elderly in the US -- plummeted. Which suggests that most deaths blamed on covid actually had other underlying causes. JH quickly retracted the paper after anti-lockdown conservatives highlighted it, but the authors stand by the data, which was taken from the CDC.
There is ZERO debate that people with underlying conditions are at greater risk of dying from Covid. I also would not be surprised if once we get past the current pandemic to see deaths from cardiac events remain down for some time. What Covid has done is hasten the deaths of those with underlying conditions.. Many if not most of the victims with underlying conditions might still be with us enjoying their previous poor health if not for Covid

The frustrating thing for me about data bits is how they are misused and abused. Studies like the one referenced only show parts of a larger dynamic but instead of using the data to generate more questions to help us better understand the dynamic, they are instead waved around in support of preconceived or preferred political positions.

Speaking only of the U.S., I am disheartened by our nations ready availability of fools that think "rational" and "rationalizing" are the same thing. Sadly, if we cannot teach Civics in our public schools I doubt we will ever teach Epistemology. The Founders must be rolling in their graves
 

twinrider

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Yokohama
What Covid has done is hasten the deaths of those with underlying conditions.. Many if not most of the victims with underlying conditions might still be with us enjoying their previous poor health if not for Covid
Maybe, but only for a short time. Otherwise, deaths related to heart disease over 10 months wouldn't have plummeted.

As the meme goes....



Do you have a link to the study? I couldn't find it with a quick google search.

Here ya go...

 

MattR

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Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
1,175
Location
North Hampshire UK
According to Parliament UK, 70,000 UK civilians lost their lives in WWII.

The latest UK govt. stats say around 61,000 Britons died of Covid.

According to the British Heart Foundation, heart disease kills 170,000 Britons every year. That's nearly three times the number of Covid deaths.

What's interesting is a Johns Hopkins study that showed during the 10 months of covid in the US, the number of people dying of heart disease -- the leading killer of elderly in the US -- plummeted. Which suggests that most deaths blamed on covid actually had other underlying causes. JH quickly retracted the paper after anti-lockdown conservatives highlighted it, but the authors stand by the data, which was taken from the CDC.
That’s interesting, the BBC say it was 60000. Need to get them to fact check that.

Of course if you have heart disease, COPD, diabetes, asthma, obesity or any of a whole range of other conditions, your body will struggle to fight off covid. It’s all linked. I’m sure that when the stats for this year come out they will show a huge increase in deaths for people with all of those underlying problems. Some of them may have died anyway but many will have been finished off by covid.


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Kruzzin5

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Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
415
Location
Newmarket, Ontario
I have my doubts that Trump was infected with the Covid virus. He has been credited for 20,000 false and misleading claims. Why would anyone believe that an old, overweight and out of shape person could kick Covid in just 4 days.
Exactly! It was just a publicity stunt for him to get sympathy and voted back in.
 

AVGeek

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That is one of my biggest questions on covid. Blood type O has the highest resistance to the virus. China has 666,000ish citizens with type O; 48%. America only has 325,000ish as a total population. Hmmmm. . . .
Interesting...I had not heard about different resistances based on blood type. I am Type O (I believe O negative, but I don't 100% recall). The Red Cross has some interesting articles on blood type.
 

VRODE

Easy Does It
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940
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Northern Vermont
I work part time helping elderly clients (rides to apptntmnts, shopping). They are all in their 90’s. Pretty sure Covid would kill them. I’ve been masking, etc since March. They are all homebound. Fortunately our state has a decent handle on it and our efforts to limit all interactions has been working. I might wait a few weeks after the vaccine is released to gauge its response, but yeah, I’m getting it.
Me, I’m not worried about, but I don’t want to pass anything to anybody.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
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I'll take the shot. Odds are it will be next summer before it's available to the general public. Like many, I have my concerns about a rapid to market vaccine that hasn't gone through the full spectrum of 'normal' testing and observation trials. Perhaps by the time I can actually get vaccinated, there will be more data to make an informed decision with.

Re: Trump. Holy cow people, do you really think the President of the United States is going to receive the same level of care YOU get? He got tested a lot, and the instant they thought he had it, they threw the entire assault line of things that might work at him. Very few regular citizens, if any, would get that level of testing and follow up or treatment.

Some things to consider. The immune system can only deal with things it's seen before. The bubble kids that never had pets or ate dirt, now suffer from all kinds of 'intolerance' issues, imho, because they never got exposed to the natural crap out there that others experienced, but that didn't make us "sick", from dog kisses to tick bites and who knows what all else. The same is true of the 90-100 year old folks that grew up with more 'wild' viruses and lived a more active, more outdoors/farm life. Over their lifetime, many, if not most, were exposed to a lot more things that those of us in our 50's and 60's. Hell, I grew up with fluoride in the water, chicken pox parties and every vaccine poked into me at school. I still wasn't exposed to half the crap my grandparents were growing up.

Recovery is a funny word. A lot of what I've been reading is saying that people that suffer thru serious cases of Covid will have a life long impact from it. The scaring in the lung tissue doesn't fully recover/go away, heart damage causes lingering issues that may crop up again as those people get older or if other complications arise. They may be more susceptible to suffering from other issues as well. This isn't the flu. Several people I know that got severe cases of this and have come out the other side are taking a loooooong time to regain pre-Covid levels of strength, activity and for lack of a better term, normalcy in their lives.

I get that people want a choice. But there is a lot of stupidity going on in the world. Far too many people are running around w/o masks because they have convinced each other that it's no big deal if they get it or not. And frankly, not giving a damn if they spread it to other people. That's why we have 2000+ new cases a day in MS and the hospitals are maxed out in the ICUs in the larger cities. Jackson, MS had zero ICU beds available a couple of weeks ago and probably still doesn't have any now. One dies, another bed gets filled. Hardly anyone getting to the ICU stage of Covid recovers. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's statistically rare.

Don't let your ego over ride your common sense. For those of you that don't want to be told what to do. Grow the F*** up. You do what you're told ever day of your life, this is no different. You're a member of this society. You stop for red lights, you drive on the correct side of the road, you pay taxes, get your driver's license renewed and park between the lines. You likely hold a job, which is all about doing what you're told to do in exchange for getting paid for your end result efforts. Part of society is about following the rules society has generated. You don't always agree with them, and yes, sometimes you can choose to ignore some to a degree. Speeding is a good example. You drive 10 over, mostly no one cares. You drive 10 over thru a school zone, more people care because your choice impacted more people that are at a higher risk. You refuse to take a chicken pox vaccine, you don't get to go to public school in some states. At some point, those that refuse to take a Covid vaccine may also find themselves losing opportunities and options. Like crossing a border for an obvious one. But what if you couldn't stay in a hotel or go to church? Or what if you don't get hired for a job because you haven't been vaccinated? I already know of companies that deny medical insurance to employees that smoke. The smokers were given an opportunity and access to free stop smoking programs, but if they refused, or continued to smoke afterwards, they lost those benefits for themselves and their families. (and they were told up front this would be the result of continuing to smoke.) To what extent will you be willing to limit yourself and your activities just because you don't want to take a vaccine?

And what are you really concerned about in the first place? Some of the people here, (Mississippi), that refuse to wear masks are also the same people that are saying they won't take a vaccine. WTF? You're not afraid of getting Covid because you don't think it's a big deal, but you're also refusing to take the vaccine because what? You're afraid of getting Covid? Pick one. Are you afraid of getting it or not?

Bottom line, we still have far too little information about Covid-19 and it's mutations. Far too little information about the vaccines for it and the long term impact, if any, of getting vaccinated. And that's not likely to change for years to come. Simple truth though, if enough people were wearing masks and following some simple guidelines, we wouldn't be where we are today. Another simple truth is that if enough people get vaccinated, this shit will virtually go away. It will still be out there, but far fewer people will get it and fewer of the people they contact will get it so it won't spread as fast and it will be easier to isolate those that have it before they spread it to large groups.

I would not be surprised if the Covid vaccine ends up being an annual thing like flu shots. And like flu shots, it will be a crap shoot if they pick the right strains that year for the vaccine. But it will still help most people fight it off, even if they have symptoms and more severe cases. Cumulative impact on our immune systems, if you will.
 

Sierra1

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Joined
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Joshua TX
. . . . I would not be surprised if the Covid vaccine ends up being an annual thing like flu shots. And like flu shots, it will be a crap shoot if they pick the right strains that year for the vaccine. But it will still help most people fight it off, even if they have symptoms and more severe cases. Cumulative impact on our immune systems, if you will.
I took it for granted that this was not a "one-n-done". They said that the vax would protect for three months, ish. So, yeah, every year there will be the injection cocktail. Unless of course somebody else doesn't "accidently" produce & release yet another virus.

I totally agree with your assessment of Trump's recovery. There's plenty of "regular folk" that have recovered relatively quick. And, if there's anybody out there that thinks that Trump didn't get the latest & greatest treatment. . . . I have some land in Florida for sale. :D
 

Eville Rich

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464
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Wisconsin, USA
I'm sympathetic with folks who have a specific medical reason to not take the vaccine (e.g. genetic issue). But people who refuse it on the basis of their freedumb can stuff it. You enjoy the fruits of society you sometimes are asked to give something. People who refuse? They can enjoy their freedumb in their own homes and stay there. Them not taking the vaccine (or wearing a mask, social distancing) are the reason we're in this position and it keeps getting stretched out. Their freedom ends where another's nose begins. That they may pass along a serious communicable disease in some self-righteous selfish notion of what freedom is a boundary condition. The vaccine and masks aren't about self-protection - it's about protecting others. Folks that can't understand that or don't care - I really do not care about their feelings and I'm not interested in coddling them. I'm sure they will resort some name calling of those that do and probably shake their fists in indignation.

I'm not excited about the rapid pace and inherently limited testing that accompany this vaccine, but I'll take it once available. Not sure what my place in the line will be, but it's going to be after the most vulnerable groups (e.g. elderly) and most at-risk professionals (health care, etc.). I am impressed with the global effort to develop vaccines in such a short time. Shows what humanity can do with focused attention.

I am a little concerned about the pace of vaccine distribution. With what may be a relatively short period for it remaining active (several months?), I'd think we'd need as many to get it all at once in order to squash future transmission. Taking a long time for distribution means delays in creating the societal immunity that's needed to drop reinfection rates once the vaccine wears off. But I'm not an expert at this and am wholly unqualified in understanding the nature of the virus and the vaccine. I'd just like to know more about the subject.

Eville Rich
2016 S10
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
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Read an interesting article in Scientific American about the covid 19 virus. Turns out it has twice as many base pairs (genetic material) than common cold and flu causing coronial viruses. Very rare for RNA based coronal viruses, it evidently also has some replication error correcting capability, this is common for DNA based organisms but not RNA Corona viruses. The article comments that this no average / common Corona virus.

My interpretation is that having that ability to correct errors means this virus will be less susceptible to mutation than typical Corona viruses. This might in part explain its persistence and I think, based on my studies in biotechnology and molecular biology, a positive sign for an effective longer lasting vaccine. Coincidentally, I’m hearing some talk that the vaccine may have efficacy lasting years as opposed to months. More data still needed here though.

Most scientists believe random mutations are statistically most often fatal to the organism, with conferring an advantage being the exception.



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B

ballisticexchris

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I'm sympathetic with folks who have a specific medical reason to not take the vaccine (e.g. genetic issue). But people who refuse it on the basis of their freedumb can stuff it. You enjoy the fruits of society you sometimes are asked to give something. People who refuse? They can enjoy their freedumb in their own homes and stay there. Them not taking the vaccine (or wearing a mask, social distancing) are the reason we're in this position and it keeps getting stretched out. Their freedom ends where another's nose begins. That they may pass along a serious communicable disease in some self-righteous selfish notion of what freedom is a boundary condition. The vaccine and masks aren't about self-protection - it's about protecting others. Folks that can't understand that or don't care - I really do not care about their feelings and I'm not interested in coddling them. I'm sure they will resort some name calling of those that do and probably shake their fists in indignation.

I'm not excited about the rapid pace and inherently limited testing that accompany this vaccine, but I'll take it once available. Not sure what my place in the line will be, but it's going to be after the most vulnerable groups (e.g. elderly) and most at-risk professionals (health care, etc.). I am impressed with the global effort to develop vaccines in such a short time. Shows what humanity can do with focused attention.

I am a little concerned about the pace of vaccine distribution. With what may be a relatively short period for it remaining active (several months?), I'd think we'd need as many to get it all at once in order to squash future transmission. Taking a long time for distribution means delays in creating the societal immunity that's needed to drop reinfection rates once the vaccine wears off. But I'm not an expert at this and am wholly unqualified in understanding the nature of the virus and the vaccine. I'd just like to know more about the subject.

Eville Rich
2016 S10
I'm with you 100% Mr. Rich. Unfortunately common sense is a gift that not everyone has. We have grown adults that lack maturity and intelligence. Then you add inability to separate facts from fiction, and add in their rights to do as they wish.

Since this is a motorcycle forum I'll give an example of common sense vs lack of (for those that don't know). Go on any tire thread and the discussion gets split with those that have common sense and those that are cretinous . It is a proven fact that a soft compound knobby is going to work the best in sand, loose rock and any off pavement situation. Yet you have those that continue to test out Darwinism by proclaiming they ride on a nice "compromise" hard compound tire and it's just as good. All you need to do is watch someone ride with that tire and see the crash that follows. Might take one ride or 10 years but it is going to happen. Rider skill has zero to do with it other than the length of time between crashes.

This is not much different than those that are not wearing masks and refusing vaccination. Those that are doing this are playing Russian Roulette. The only difference from my paradigm above is now they are risking other lives beside just their own. Very sad indeed.
 

Sierra1

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Joshua TX
Yup. I'm sure you've seen those people. . . . and realize that they're going to reproduce. :(
 

Nissbird

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Jul 16, 2015
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Hereford
70 million people in the UK with each vaccine costing over £200, of course it should be mandated so the elite get more money, after all making sure we are safe from a nasty virus that can kill you if you're in the unlucky 1%.
 

tallpaul

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Messages
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Whitworth, Rochdale, UK
I'm certainly not an antivaxer. I wear my mask and wash my hands. I do all the safe stuff the government advises and I'm happy to do so. I'm just the someone who would like more rigorous testing before taking the one way trip of having a hastily created vaccine injected into to me then find out there are side effects they didn't foresee. It's too late by then. I know it's not the same ballpark but Thalidomide was a wonder drug until it wasn't. Yes it's still in use today but for a different purpose, but no-one saw the problems that created coming until it was too late.
 
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