Who is replacing their brake lines after 4 years?

bnschroder

2014 Super Tenere ES
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Coming up on 4 years of ownership of my 2014 ES and just checked what service items to do next.
The manual says to replace your brake lines after 4 years, or when cracked, what I assume means "then sooner".
Who does that, or does this only sound rather extreme to me? I bet there are millions of multi-decade bikes out there that never had a brake line touched.
And if you are supposed to replace them, which elements do you replace (I guess the service manual may tell me)?
 

Juan

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I have 33k km (20k miles) on my S10. I recently flushed the brake fluid (including the ABS module) but have no intention of replacing the brake lines soon.
 
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ballisticexchris

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I personally have never waited more than a few seasons before replacing the OEM rubber lines on Asian bikes. I replace with steel braided. That being said I'm sure there are guys who run many years with no issues.

FWIW, I flush my brakes at least once or twice a season with Motul 600, 660 or equivalent regardless of mileage. After going to steel braided lines I have never had to replace them.

As a fair warning, you must flush brakes more frequently when going to the high grade brake fluid. It captures moisture more quickly than the standard stuff.
 
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RonH

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I'm running 40yr old brake lines on other motorcycles I've owned for 40 years and they still work just fine and are not cracked yet. :)
Better part of $400.00 to buy the rubber lines through Yamaha. Putting braided steel on is cool of course, and that is all well and good, but the factory lines don't go bad very often in my experience at least.
 

Ramseybella

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Never had a line fail in all the bikes i have owned, and that includes outdoor finds next to barns.
Cables are a different story.
I do check flex points when changing break pads and fluid.
 

Nikolajsen

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RonH said:
I'm running 40yr old brake lines on other motorcycles I've owned for 40 years and they still work just fine and are not cracked yet. :)
Better part of $400.00 to buy the rubber lines through Yamaha. Putting braided steel on is cool of course, and that is all well and good, but the factory lines don't go bad very often in my experience at least.
I have also never changed a brake line.
 
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ballisticexchris

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RonH said:
I'm running 40yr old brake lines on other motorcycles I've owned for 40 years and they still work just fine and are not cracked yet. :)
Better part of $400.00 to buy the rubber lines through Yamaha. Putting braided steel on is cool of course, and that is all well and good, but the factory lines don't go bad very often in my experience at least.
Putting on steel braided lines gives a much better feel at the lever, stopping distance is decreased considerably, and last much longer than OEM rubber lines. Over time rubber lines swell, give a mushy feel at the lever and lose stopping power. Worst of all stopping distance increases over time. This happens very slowly and is hardly noticed by most riders. I cannot imagine taking chances by not maintaining a safety item.

No 40 year old brake line is going to have the stopping power of a steel braided one. I'm willing to bet some guys even go more than a year on the same brake fluid.
 

ace50

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ANOTHER contentions topic!

I've never been on an older bike with original brake lines that I felt unsafe, because of the brake lines anyway!
My 1996 Magna did have sticking front brake when purchased a couple of years ago. No maintenance I expect! (see pic, fluid was color of molassas)
The caliper was the same condition and the lever pivots were so dry it braked in increments, not variable as we are use to.
Cleaned entire system, even a new site window in reservoir. Worked like new except they were sub-par brakes.
Changed to Galfer line and seen no difference. These bikes just had soft front brakes. Typical Honda cruiser.
Changed my 2000 ZRX to Galfer brake lines and again, seen no difference. Brakes wern't too bad on that bike anyway.
The ZRX manual said to rebuild the bake system every two years with new seals. I bet nobody does that!

This is a judgement call. I personally haven't seen issues with brake lines failing. Not to say it doesn't happen though.
 

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ace50

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There is actually a device you can buy and put on the brake lines that softens the pressure of grabbing the brakes (without ABS)
so you don't lock-up the wheel. It kinda reminds me of just having a brake line that 'gives' a little. Old brake lines don't 'give' (expand)
so much that you run out of lever travel. They may just be a softer feel.

I don't like the feel of a super sport bike bike with their super sensitive (strong) brakes. Hard to ride in traffic, they are SO touchy.
I'm sure you get use to it if that's all you ride.

I really enjoyed my 2003 Honda Sabre cause the front brakes were somewhat soft, (single disc) cause you could stab it without being afraid if it grabbing.
Gives it time to transfer the weight up front. If you need to brake fast, grab the rear too! (talking pre-ABS)
 

Dogdaze

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My own personal view, I change the fluids every two years as I don't ride much and the bike are always in a garage. My thinking behind that is that fluid with condensation in it will rot the lines from inside to out, and so I do it, but never thought about replacing brake lines as I never store outside so not open to extreme elements. So far, never had an issue, never had fluid discolour or look gritty, once the first replacement was done. Just my view.
 
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ballisticexchris

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ace50 said:
ANOTHER contentions topic!
Not really a heated argument at all. Just opinions vs facts vs how guys maintain their bikes. We all have a comfort level on what stuff to neglect. I'm even guilty of it myself. OTOH, brakes, tires, steering, controls, or anything that keeps the rider safe and bike upright on rubber is nothing to mess with.

I highly recommend for the OP to replace his brake lines with steel braided or OEM as prescribed in the manual. It will be his choice of comfort level when it comes to safety.

Dogdaze said:
My own personal view, I change the fluids every two years as I don't ride much and the bike are always in a garage. My thinking behind that is that fluid with condensation in it will rot the lines from inside to out, and so I do it, but never thought about replacing brake lines as I never store outside so not open to extreme elements. So far, never had an issue, never had fluid discolour or look gritty, once the first replacement was done. Just my view.
That sounds pretty reasonable. Frequent fluid changes go a long way to extend the life of the brake lines. Still, anything over 4 years is a long time to keep and use the OEM brake lines.
 

OldRider

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ballisticexchris said:
Still, anything over 4 years is a long time to keep and use the OEM brake lines.
That's just not so, 4 years is not a long time to be using brake lines. If it makes you feel good to do it that often, then I think you should do so. What about changing them every six months? No one can make an argument proving that doesn't make you even safer. The truth of the matter is that there are millions on top of millions of cars trucks & motorcycles out there with brake lines 10 - 20 years old and haven't had a problem.
 

Checkswrecks

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There's no question that brake lines physically degrade over time, being attacked on the outside by ozone and UV from the sun. On the inside, brake fluid attacks the rubber plus attracts moisture, and the heat at the caliper turns the moisture acidic. None of these are quick but they do add up to very slowly degrade the rubber so the outer layer hardens and inner layer softens.


There are two big "howevers" going for us though. One is that the design of the system puts really little strain on the lines when compared to the hose pressure. The other is that the 4 years is conservative guidance set by the manufacturer for THIS bike. I know of another vehicle manufacturer that puts 6 years and regards that as conservative.


I tend to leave my lines for newer bikes and replace them on condition of getting gray, small cracks, feel, etc. When I do replace, it is always with braided lines.
More important to me is changing out the fluid every winter, and regularly checking the ABS with stops on the grass when getting home from work.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Checkswrecks said:
More important to me is changing out the fluid every winter, and regularly checking the ABS with stops on the grass when getting home from work.
I don’t feel so bad now!! I too have been testing out the antilock and also traction control at the local horse trail on almost every ride. This is my first ever bike with antilock brakes. So I will error on the side of caution.

It’s still a spooky feeling to grab a handful of front brake in loose hardback! Another unnerving feeling is the inability to lock up rear brake to help the bike turn.
 

EricV

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ballisticexchris said:
It’s still a spooky feeling to grab a handful of front brake in loose hardback! Another unnerving feeling is the inability to lock up rear brake to help the bike turn.
That's twice you've outed yourself as new to ABS. (stop tearing up the trails please, learn to manage your speed, not try to slide thru corners because you over cooked the trail) Braided s/s lines make ZERO difference in braking quality or feel on an ABS bike. ZERO. That does not mean they are not a higher quality of line. It simply means that you can't get that rock hard feel with an ABS solenoid in the system.

To the OP, there is no good reason to replace your brake lines unless there is damage to them. Do flush and bleed the brake system every couple of years minimum because all brake fluid is hygroscopic, (absorbs moisture), and that will decrease the temp at which it boils. Higher boiling point means the system will handle more heat before brake fade. Which is why ballisticexchris uses a higher grade of fluid, accepting that he needs to flush it more often. Good trade off for riders aggressive with the brakes.
 

Checkswrecks

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EricV said:
That's twice you've outed yourself as new to ABS. (stop tearing up the trails please, learn to manage your speed, not try to slide thru corners because you over cooked the trail) ...

You weren't new at some point?
:p
Seriously, Chris, I get where you are coming from, in going from the non-ABS KTM dirt bike to the Tenere and back. Grab the front brake on the KTM and you lock up the tire immediately, and sliding the rear is just normal operation. Get on the big girl and there's a bit of habit transfer or transfer of expectations for the first few seconds.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Checkswrecks said:
You weren't new at some point?
:p
Seriously, Chris, I get where you are coming from, in going from the non-ABS KTM dirt bike to the Tenere and back. Grab the front brake on the KTM and you lock up the tire immediately, and sliding the rear is just normal operation. Get on the big girl and there's a bit of habit transfer or transfer of expectations for the first few seconds.
Yes very strange indeed. I'm slowly getting used to it.

EricV said:
That's twice you've outed yourself as new to ABS. (stop tearing up the trails please, learn to manage your speed, not try to slide thru corners because you over cooked the trail) Braided s/s lines make ZERO difference in braking quality or feel on an ABS bike. ZERO. That does not mean they are not a higher quality of line. It simply means that you can't get that rock hard feel with an ABS solenoid in the system.

To the OP, there is no good reason to replace your brake lines unless there is damage to them. Do flush and bleed the brake system every couple of years minimum because all brake fluid is hygroscopic, (absorbs moisture), and that will decrease the temp at which it boils. Higher boiling point means the system will handle more heat before brake fade. Which is why ballisticexchris uses a higher grade of fluid, accepting that he needs to flush it more often. Good trade off for riders aggressive with the brakes.
I cringe at the thought of 2 years without a brake flush. I figure you're kidding about the "overcooking" the trail. I'm just testing different things out with this new system. Very deliberate acts of super hard braking on loose ground to see the stopping power of this beast in a controlled environment.

Still not in agreement with your statement of steel braided lines making no difference on the feel at the lever or lack of braking quality. As long as the ABS is not kicking in, the braking quality of steel braided vs OEM rubber should be very noticeable. It's one of the first brake upgrades I have made to all my Japanese bikes over the years. Also brake pad material can help that improvement. Although I have found OEM Honda, Kawasaki, and Yamaha brake pads are really hard to beat for good overall stopping power.

That's not to say the OEM lines are crap. I'm finding the brakes on this bike to be really awesome!! Darn discs are huge!! As it sets I'll be doing just frequent fluid changes and go through a few sets of pads before changing the lines on this one. I sure in the heck don't plan on using the same OEM lines after 4 years though. But who knows, maybe I'll get on board with the rest of the guys who just run these bikes past the recommended service schedule.

I get it that I'm odd man out. When it comes to maintaining my bikes I always error on the side of want the bike to not let me down. FWIW I have never DNF'd in a race due to a mechanical failure on my bike. Body failure, hell yes!!
 

SilverBullet

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ballisticexchris said:
...I get it that I'm odd man out. When it comes to maintaining my bikes I always error on the side of want the bike to not let me down. FWIW I have never DNF'd in a race due to a mechanical failure on my bike. Body failure, hell yes!!
I wouldn't say odd man out, more like everybody has different use, surroundings and expectations. Too many variables to make blanket statements on scheduled preventative maintenance. Go with your own gut and ride with peace of mind.

Do you:...
Frequently overcook your brakes?
Too the point of boiling your fluid?
Live in Arizona or Florida humidity?
Let your bike sit outside uncovered or in a garage?
Keep your brake system sealed between fluid changes? (many OCD will crack it open, serves no purpose but allows moisture to enter.)
Periodically cycle fluid thru your ABS pump?
Use OEM fluid or performance fluid that is more hygroscopic?
When you change pads or reinstall a wheel do you clean your pistons before pushing them back inside the calipers?

Short list that comes to mind, probably more variables than that.

Sent from my SM-G860P using Tapatalk
 

WJBertrand

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I replaced all the lines on my Honda ST1100 with braided ones hoping to reap the alleged increased stopping performance and better feel. This bike was a '93 ABS I model that had completely separate front and rear braking circuits. Honda didn't come out with the linked system until '96 In the end there was no difference in either feel or stopping distance. I could engage the ABS at about the same amount of effort and lever travel with both the 8-year old OEM rubber lines vs. the new braided ones. If you are able to lock the wheel there isn't any additional additional stopping performance to be had. Honda actually recommends to replace the lines every 2 years so I figured I'd really notice the difference. I was quite disappointed.

As a result (and that fact that there were a lot more brake lines) I never bothered to replace the lines on my 2005 ST1300 ABS. Never noticed any issues like softening or cracking of the lines but I always kept the synthetic fluid fresh every two years. When I bought my Super Tenere, I noticed that my 10-year old ST13 had a much firmer braking feel and better initial bite than my brand new Super Tenere.

I won't be bothered with changing the brake lines again unless they are damaged for some reason.
 
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