What's going on?

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Ok, just so that there is a little background. Got myself a new S10 2016, have ridden about 100 miles on it so far (time and weather). last week when I went out I found myself going into corners faster and then having to brake to control the bike round, not good! Also, on some roads there was water run off and again in the corners feel really uneasy and 'babying' it around. is it just a break in period or is there something else that's making me lose my nerve? I also found I'm not sitting on the seat in the same position as the old S10, this may be cured by putting a set of risers on as I did on the other bike. I'm not sure if this is temporary and normal? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a knee dragger and ride about 70% max (100% being all out) but speed does not bother me. Any tips of useful suggestions would be appreciated, rider training is not really something they do here other than beginner stuff to pass tests.
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,227
Location
Tupelo, MS
New bike, new tires, different suspension settings, (did you ever play with the seat angle on the old bike?), vibration dampening bar risers now, so more flex in the bars. All of these things can contribute to what you're experiencing. Heck, it looks like the old bike, but feels and rides just a little different. Tons of small differences from clutch feel, to bar feel and angles, etc. Never mind the normal fast drop in of some tires when new.

My humble suggestion is to play with setting up the suspension for your weight/style, if you haven't already, double check your tire pressures, (if you don't normally do that anyway), then go find a large parking lot and play around. Slow speed skills and familiarity with a new bike always translate to greater confidence/comfort at higher speeds. Do some figure 8s and see if you can stay inside two parking spaces while doing your turns. Do a few really slow, absolute minimum speed runs from one end to the other end of the parking lot or an empty street. Balance feel on the new bike is going to be just a bit different and you should get used to where those tip points are, what compensation you input at pegs, bars, knees, butt, etc to keep the bike balanced it will take. Do slow circles until you can do a slow circle at full steering lock in both directions.

Then go for a short ride and see how it feels to you. I think you just need to wake up those muscle memory factors for the new bike, they are still remembering the old bike.
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Thanks Eric, a few good suggestions ::008:: , fwiw, I set the suspension, seat and checked tyre pressures before even the first ride. But as the seat and suspension are 'fresh' could be they are firmer than the old one? and maybe the suspension needs to be readjusted, think I'll do that car park thing on Sunday.
 

groundhog

New Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
326
Location
Winchester, England
My guess would be tyres. For instance I always find the feel of the bike between an old set of squared off tyres and a new pair of properly rounded tyres quite noticeable. Also are they a different make to your last bike and as mentioned before, have you checked the pressures ?
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,227
Location
Tupelo, MS
I'm a suspension noob as far as getting that stuff set up, but I can see where the same general settings on the old bike might not give you the same feel and results on the new bike, for reasons like wear and age of fluids as well as different internal components, (possibly), so just one more thing to play with. Mostly I think you just need to get better aquatinted with the new girl. She's got all the same basic parts, but every girl likes a different touch. ;)
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Groundhog, Stock battlewings, not scrubbed in yet........ factory psi +1lb.
Eric, probably the 'new' thing and that wobbly handlebar factor.
 

AZ Dean

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
112
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I agree with Eric. Just give it some time. When I first got my bike it felt really different and weird, but a few weeks ago I was chasing a talented rider on a KTM 950 SMR through the twisties.

Once I got used to it the bike is very confidence inspiring.
 

Rasher

Active Member
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,955
Location
UK
I always hated the Deathwing tyres. My 2011 bike came with Tourance EXP's - if it had arrived with the DW's they would have gone straight in the bin, probably OK(ish) in good warm weather.

Plus what Eric said about the new bike syndrome.

For Training get yourself a copy of "A Twist of the Wrist 2" DVD, all good stuff and quite entertaining, going to a school is better, but the DVD (and the Twist2 book) are the next best thing IMO and I have read a lot of books and been on a lot of Race Schools and road training courses.....

...but if you do not gel with your tyres nothing really helps, give it a few more miles and ride nice and steady, but if your still disliking it come spring chuck on something decent, Roadsmart and Roadsmart 2's were both excellent on my Gen1 Super Tenere (and GS) and the latest RS3 will be what next graces my KTM - I actually like the OE Pirelli tyres in the dry, but they scare me to death in the wet.
 

tomatocity

Active Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
5,251
Location
Sacramento, CA USA
Dogdaze you ahve been through the drill before...
... what Tenere do you have ES or Standard?
... now we know the tires, BW, what tire pressures are you running?
... what are your suspension settings?
... what is the position of your seat?
... have you changed the position of your handlebars?
... have you checked (loosened and re-torqued[inside outside]) the front axle?
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
tomatocity said:
Dogdaze you ahve been through the drill before...
... what Tenere do you have ES or Standard?

Standard
... now we know the tires, BW, what tire pressures are you running?

36 F and 40 R
... what are your suspension settings?

Front 4 rings showing on preload, rebound and damping both in the middle specs, rear 75% pre-load. (I now weigh 200lbs)
... what is the position of your seat?

Did the seat mod already, same as the last bike.
... have you changed the position of your handlebars?

No change yet, will look at buying risers, not happy with stock position.
... have you checked (loosened and re-torqued[inside outside]) the front axle?

No, but may look into that, being brand new was hoping that would be ok........
Rasher, thanks for info on the DVD, will look into getting a copy.
 

Squibb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
Bedford, UK
I think the guys have covered all the issues, the most likely of which seems to be the need to get your tyres well scrubbed in. All sorts of crap gets floated up out of the road surface when wet & just a few warning slips/slides soon affects one's confidence.

However, I do remember an old ex-racer buddy of mine a while back. Got a shiny new sports bike, but hardly ever rode the thing, after the initial excitement had subsided. I insisted we go out for a decent run one day &, after lunch, he spilled out a sorry tale - he reckoned he had 'lost it' after 40 years riding & was planning to hang up his leathers. We swopped bikes (something I rarely allow for obvious reasons) - after about 40 miles on my Hayabusa he pulled in to compare notes. He was delighted to find it wasn't him after all - turned out to be a slightly tight, barely lubricated set of steering head bearings that made the whole bike seem stiff & unresponsive - Just like our S10 shaft drives, Yamaha were mean with the grease even then.

All the best ................... KEN
 

tomatocity

Active Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
5,251
Location
Sacramento, CA USA
Dogdaze said:
Rasher, thanks for info on the DVD, will look into getting a copy.
I am going with the others and say it is a new (er) Tenere but...

... the front wheel is installed at the dealer.
... the handlebars are either installed at the dealer and definitely adjusted.
... if you want to discover the correct suspension settings, change them. Choose a starting point and ride a common road. Change the setting by increasing and riding the same road then decreasing the setting and riding the same road. Takes time but when you find the sweet spot you will know it.

I have an ES and did not know where to start with the Dampening. Hard STD Soft and +3 | +2 | +1 | 0 | -1 | -2 | -3 are the settings. I started in the middle 'STD 0' and would go to +3 then -3. Hard was next then Soft. Tried them all and ended up the 'Soft -3'. I would have not guessed this setting and tried proving myself wrong... wrong Soft -3 it is. I play with tire pressures for handling. Accidentally discovered that 26F Road was scary in the corners. Correcting it to 32 made me a happy rider. Is it a perfect suspension NO but it much better than my 2012 with Ohlins rear and performance built forks. The 2012 NEVER handled well.

You can do the same with the Standard suspension settings on the forks and rear shock. Do them separately. Enjoy your ride(s) and listen to the feedback.
 

Squibb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
Bedford, UK
Andylaser said:
I upped the preload to 1 person plus luggage and I find that better than the 1 person only setting.
Whilst you, & I, have that luxury, Ford has gone with the Standard Non-ES bike. Having said that, he had a Gen 1, so knows his way around the settings I reckon.
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Squibb said:
Whilst you, & I, have that luxury, Ford has gone with the Standard Non-ES bike. Having said that, he had a Gen 1, so knows his way around the settings I reckon.
Ken, Not from lack of trying ::010:: But I may just need to go back to zero and start again, with the new fresh springs etc, might just be a tad firmer, hopefully I can cure my issues and learn to ride to this bike from scratch as Eric suggested. It's going to be a long winter..........................
 

Squibb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2014
Messages
1,064
Location
Bedford, UK
Dogdaze said:
Ken, Not from lack of trying ::010:: But I may just need to go back to zero and start again, with the new fresh springs etc, might just be a tad firmer, hopefully I can cure my issues and learn to ride to this bike from scratch as Eric suggested. It's going to be a long winter..........................
Probably a good idea, if you are still unhappy in the dry.

Before my ES, I liked to run my KTM990s pretty soft & loose; more so in the wet, firmed them up when dry riding. The first of these had been run by a KTM Cup racer, who wound preload & all damping up to the max - might have been OK showing off on the track, but lacked compliance for general road use. We went back to 'by the book' standard dry settings for me solo (I am around 200 lb in riding gear), about 60% preload when fully loaded (we never ran with side panniers), with a touch of extra compression damping. Softened this back a tad if all day wet riding. If this is anything to go by? it would suggest to me that you may be running your preload a little too high both ends.

Have fun. All the Best .......................... KEN
 

EricV

Riding, farkling, riding...
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
8,227
Location
Tupelo, MS
I think you'll be surprised to find out how quickly you adapt, once you take on that mindset and focus a day on those core drills. When we are out for a normal ride, reality dictates that we focus on so many other external things, like staying alive while other road users try to kill us. ??? A little time just focused on the bike and what you are doing will do wonders.
 

shrekonwheels

New Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
772
Location
Montana
Dogdaze said:
Ok, just so that there is a little background. Got myself a new S10 2016, have ridden about 100 miles on it so far (time and weather). last week when I went out I found myself going into corners faster and then having to brake to control the bike round, not good! Also, on some roads there was water run off and again in the corners feel really uneasy and 'babying' it around. is it just a break in period or is there something else that's making me lose my nerve? I also found I'm not sitting on the seat in the same position as the old S10, this may be cured by putting a set of risers on as I did on the other bike. I'm not sure if this is temporary and normal? Don't get me wrong, I'm not a knee dragger and ride about 70% max (100% being all out) but speed does not bother me. Any tips of useful suggestions would be appreciated, rider training is not really something they do here other than beginner stuff to pass tests.
At an Advanced Riding clinic, which was pretty much just a track clinic :p I learned that if you think you are riding at 80 percent, you are actually riding at 100 percent.
 

Dogdaze

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
3,040
Location
Solothurn, Switzerland
Okay, a little update. I have not had the opportunity to ride much, but did get out last Sunday and again today, last week did as EricV suggested and practised some low speed turns, reduced front preload a tad and went for another 100km ride today. Feeling better about the bike, still need my risers though and they should be with me in two weeks.
So thanks for the input guys ::008::
(Also waiting on my 'Twist of the wrist' DVD, thanks Rasher!)
On a slightly different note, the bike sounds more throaty, less rattley, and has a nice pop on deceleration, again, different from my 2012 S10. But engine braking is really harsh, hope that clears up by 5k miles, a way to go as I only have about 300 miles on the bike........ ::010::
 

arjayes

Active Member
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Dec 13, 2013
Messages
460
Location
San Diego
I've been messing with my suspension the last few weeks. Finally got a new stiffer spring on the Elka shock I bought a couple of years ago. Before the new spring I was never able to get the rear sag set correctly so the bike rode low, scraped metal in fast turns, etc. I had no problem with how the bike handled but I didn't know any better and was used to it.

I had never even measured my front sag, but along with the new rear spring I got new springs and a piston kit from Stoltec for the front. For my first test ride after the upgrades I set the front sag to 60 mm and the rear to about 55 mm and I was absolutely blown away by the difference in handling. It was like the bike had power steering. Turning was SO much easier. Before my next ride I added my top box and threw my usual stuff in there and went for a long ride in the rain to check out some new gear. I did not re-check the sag after adding the top box and the handling was pretty much back to where it was with the old spring. When I got home I checked the rear sag and it was well over 60 mm (I forget the exact #). I weighed the top box + contents and it was only 17 lbs, but that extra weight directly above the rear axle (behind it actually) made a huge difference in handling.

Geometry lessens! I really never paid much attention to sag and geometry. It was a set it and forget kind of thing. I will now be much more meticulous about it. The benefits of having things set up correctly are unbelievable.
 
Top