Well another dealer bites the dust. If your sensitive dont read this post

[OldRider]

My insurance policy doesn't say anything about not allowing customers in the shop. I don't allow customers to stand and look over my shoulder while working on their bike. They will wear you out with questions and that only adds more time to do the job and distracts you from what you're doing.

Requiring someone to bring the bike in to be looked at before giving them a quote on routine service is just plain silly.

If a customer 50 miles away calls and wants a price on an oil change on his 2015 Road King and I tell him he needs to ride it over and let me look at it before I can quote him a price, I can guarantee you I just lost the job. ( Engine oil, filter, trans oil, primary oil and a general check over of tires, belt, etc on A Road King would run $152.30)

I've needed to take a lot of pictures of customers bikes because of things like a mouse nest in the air cleaner, unexpected broken parts or a part that has worn a lot that they need to keep an eye on, etc, etc, etc. If a customer wants me to take pictures and document every thing I touch on a bike, I'm going to advise them to go find another shop.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Little story for you on Berts. First they do quote a fixed price on a valve job, on the phone.

Berts did my first valve job. Thought they did a great job, until it was opened up for its second one. Found the rubber gasket was pinched in several places, and was obviously known to the mechanic that did the job as he placed the pinched parts back into where they should go. When I called and tried to talk to them about it, all I got was the usual "so sorry, so sad," it has been awhile, so tough luck.

As far as quotes for repairs over the phone, I was unaware that dealers did that until yesterday. I have been wrenching and fabricating so long that I was under the false assumption that they had to see the vehicle first. My cold calls were mostly about how busy they are and how long do they need the bike. All the details of the repair I handle in person. Moving forward I doubt I will change.

That's too bad. Did you inspect the job after it was complete? Did you specify to replace the old gasket with a new one. I have seen gaskets pinched from the factory. It sounds like they did a good job. If you had no leaks and it lasted until the next one.

My insurance policy doesn't say anything about not allowing customers in the shop. I don't allow customers to stand and look over my shoulder while working on their bike. They will wear you out with questions and that only adds more time to do the job and distracts you from what you're doing.

I would never stand over someones shoulder and watch them work. I will help them though if it makes their job easier. I R&R the tank, moved wiring harness, radiators, and valve covers so my dealer could remove cams to upgrade the auto decompression device. And yes, I used his tools and put them back where I found them. Only reason I did not remove the cams myself was the special procedure on these particular cams when upgrading to the new part.

 

[Checkswrecks]

In this area the insurance prohibits customers in the shop and very rough estimates are given over the phone, usually something like:
"Book rate to inspect the [valves] is $XX for YY hours and if we need to adjust or do something else then the additional labor will be $ZZ/hour."

 

[Mak10]

I have seen a sign posted in a shop that says:

Shop does the work-$$
You tried to fix and shop has to fix-$$$
You want to help, while I do the work-$$$$$

Or to that effect.

Having someone stand over you while you work on something is a real pain. Then they want a discount because they “helped”.

Don’t be that guy.

 

[RCinNC]

I've never owned a motorcycle shop, but is this common that shops will allow someone back in the shop area to "help"? I can't imagine that's SOP for too many places. I think that as a shop owner, you'd have to be borderline nuts to allow a customer to not only hang out back in the area where they're most likely to get hurt, but to actively participate in a repair. There are always limits to liability coverage; how much extra would it cost a shop owner beyond the maximum liability limit when he got sued because a customer lost a finger when it got pinched in a scissor lift while he was knowigly working on the premises? For anyone who owns a shop, that might be worth a call to an attorney to find out how much that sort of customer service could really cost.

 

[ballisticexchris]

I have helped out in the shop a few times to free up mechanics to do the more technical work. I just work off their toolbox. The big bonus is the labor goes way down whenever you help with the R&R part of the repair. Some of the larger dealerships I would not even ask. It all depends on your relationship with the dealer/service center.

For example Berts Mega Mall I would not offer to help. There are very few bikes they work on anyway. Most of the service center is dedicated to UTV modification and repair. I just make a list of what I want done, get a price and timeline, interview and leave the Master Tech do do the rest. After the repair is complete I go over my bike with a fine tooth comb, do an exit interview with the tech, pay my money and leave.

I have used this procedure for years and I have yet to have a crappy experience. Well I take that back. Recently I had to take my wife's car to a quick lube place. I wanted the cabin air filter replaced. They started to remove the glovebox when it was under the dash on the drivers side. I had to show him. I was kind of pissed but no big deal. I watched them like a hawk do a fuel filter, oil change, air filter, and cabin air filter. In the end it worked out great and the young kid learned that the online service book is not always correct.

 

[OldRider]

I have helped out in the shop a few times to free up mechanics to do the more technical work. I just work off their toolbox. The big bonus is the labor goes way down whenever you help with the R&R part of the repair. Some of the larger dealerships I would not even ask. It all depends on your relationship with the dealer/service center.

I figured it was something like this. This is not the same as walking into a dealership out of the blue and demanding access to the shop and tools and helping with the work. I have a few friends that have been hanging around the shop for years. Some of them 30-40 years and I give them the run of the place' Give them room to work and supply tools, but no one walks in off the street and gets the same treatment.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Most of the guys I ride with and have known for a looong time.

 

[Baja Explorer]

Berts Big mega mall are bunch of idiots, I won't even put air in my tires over there !

But then again.... it is a personal choice and experience we have had at those places.

 

[holligl]

Oh boy the side by sides!! Yes they are a hot item right now. And also a real danger on the trails!!

(Sorry this is off subject, but just following the tangent.) Danger to themselves too. I just got back from taking my wife up the east side of Four Peaks in the Ford Explorer. Tons of SxSs out today, usually in packs of four. Coming back down we came across some four wheelers (not the SxSs). One big guy had been thrown off, dislocating a shoulder, cracking ribs, and who knows what else. Pretty bad shape. We loaded him the back seat and headed out to the pavement to meet the EMTs. Painful rough ride out, but better than trying to hang on on the back of a 4 wheeler. They were talking about getting a helicopter as we left. Weekends can get crazy in the mountains and on the trails here. I rode the same trail earlier in the week and the only other person a saw passed me on a KTM dirt bike.

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[HeliMark]

As far as quotes for repairs over the phone, I was unaware that dealers did that until yesterday. I have been wrenching and fabricating so long that I was under the false assumption that they had to see the vehicle first. My cold calls were mostly about how busy they are and how long do they need the bike. All the details of the repair I handle in person. Moving forward I doubt I will change.

That's too bad. Did you inspect the job after it was complete? Did you specify to replace the old gasket with a new one. I have seen gaskets pinched from the factory. It sounds like they did a good job. If you had no leaks and it lasted until the next .

It was burning some oil. Not a lot, but more than it ever did. Because it was a small amount, hard to say how it was burning it, until the next check. And it is not a good job, when you screw up a new part and still put it in, knowing that it isn't bad enough for the customer to find out. And of course charge for the new part on top of that.

This was the rubber that runs around the cylinder, so oil was going into the cylinder and burning, not leaking out.

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[Sierra1]

Oh boy the side by sides!! Yes they are a hot item right now. And also a real danger on the trails!!

Not just the trails. With the reduced LE presence, I've been seeing more and more of them. . . . on the streets. And, the vast majority are being driven by kids that are too young to have a driver's license. Recipe for disaster.

 

[WJBertrand]

It was burning some oil. Not a lot, but more than it ever did. Because it was a small amount, hard to say how it was burning it, until the next check. And it is not a good job, when you screw up a new part and still put it in, knowing that it isn't bad enough for the customer to find out. And of course charge for the new part on top of that.

This was the rubber that runs around the cylinder, so oil was going into the cylinder and burning, not leaking out.

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You mean the head gasket? A leaking valve
cover gasket would not introduce oil into the combustion chamber, which is where it would need to go in order to be burned. A leak there can only leak to the outside or into a spark plug well.


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[ballisticexchris]

You mean the head gasket? A leaking valve
cover gasket would not introduce oil into the combustion chamber, which is where it would need to go in order to be burned. A leak there can only leak to the outside or into a spark plug well.


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I was wondering about that too.

Berts Big mega mall are bunch of idiots, I won't even put air in my tires over there !

But then again.... it is a personal choice and experience we have had at those places.

What is the reason? What was your experience there?

 

[HeliMark]

You mean the head gasket? A leaking valve
cover gasket would not introduce oil into the combustion chamber, which is where it would need to go in order to be burned. A leak there can only leak to the outside or into a spark plug well.


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Yes, you are correct.

 

[WJBertrand]

First I've heard of a blown head gasket on one of these bikes.

 

[HeliMark]

First I've heard of a blown head gasket on one of these bikes.

It wasn't blown due to mechanical issues, it was F'uped by the person installing it, and knowing they did.

I depend on a good mechanic to do certain things that I have little to no skill at. Being realistic saves money.

 

[ballisticexchris]

It wasn't blown due to mechanical issues, it was F'uped when installed.

Now I'm really confused. They did an actual valve job on the bike requiring the head to be pulled? Then when it was reinstalled they pinched the head gasket? I don't understand how a head gasket could be pinched on a 4T. Enlighten me please. There are normally a few dowels that go in the cylinder that would make it almost impossible to damage the head gasket.

The only loose rubber head gasket seals I've came across are on a 2T.

 

[WJBertrand]

Now I'm really confused. They did an actual valve job on the bike requiring the head to be pulled? Then when it was reinstalled they pinched the head gasket? I don't understand how a head gasket could be pinched on a 4T. Enlighten me please. There are normally a few dowels that go in the cylinder that would make it almost impossible to damage the head gasket.

The only loose rubber head gasket seals I've came across are on a 2T.

Me too. A pinched valve cover gasket would not lead to oil burning, just a leak, only a bad head gasket letting oil into the combustion chamber would cause burning but I've got to believe the bike would be running pretty poorly with such a condition. If the head was removed, why? It's not necessary for valve clearance checking or adjusting.

 

[HeliMark]

Now I'm really confused. They did an actual valve job on the bike requiring the head to be pulled? Then when it was reinstalled they pinched the head gasket? I don't understand how a head gasket could be pinched on a 4T. Enlighten me please. There are normally a few dowels that go in the cylinder that would make it almost impossible to damage the head gasket.

The only loose rubber head gasket seals I've came across are on a 2T.

Head cover gasket, not cylinder head gasket.

#17 in the parts diagram