weird hard start - not the usual one! (FIXED)

[dcstrom]

FIXED (I think)

This seemed to have something to do with the sidestand switch (error code 19) - it started happening in the days after very heavy rain (although I wasn't out riding in it!). I persisted daily for a week, every time I was able to restart the bike by switching off and back on. I was considering cutting wires to bypass the sidestand switch, but first thought I'd try drowning the switch in WD40. Seems to be fixed! No reoccurence in the 6 days since then, and almost 2000 miles covered in that time.

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After 140,000 miles I thought I'd experienced all the little quirks, but today found a new one.

Rode the bike about 2 miles this morning, shut it down and came back 2 hours later. Started and idled normally, then just died, as if I'd hit the kill switch. Started again, died again. Turn it off and back on again and same thing. Fourth time lucky and it ran normally till this afternoon, when it had been sitting for about an hour. This time no start at all, and no sign of starting (unlike the usual hard start which will catch every once in a while). Just like there was no spark... the engine check light was flashing as I was cranking. Switched off and back on a couple of times, and eventually it started and ran normally.

One thing - we had some very heavy rain recently, the bike was, as usual, sitting out in it. Wouldn't be surprised if it's water somewhere. Kill switch?

I haven't had a chance yet to check and see if there are any error codes yet, just wondering if anyone has any clues.

 

[Juan]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

No clues. But my Gen 1 (2013) has the 'check engine' light continuously on (not flashing) while cranking

 

[Cycledude]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Sorry to hear you have been having trouble starting your Tenere, What year is your Tenere ?

I have experienced hard start on my 13 only twice and fortunately it has never shut itself off. After the last hard start issue I decided to always wait a few seconds after turning the switch on and I haven’t had a hard start issue since but I really don’t use my Tenere a lot, it only has 37,000 miles, I also make sure it’s fully warmed up before shutting it off, I really got no idea if that stuff helps anything but so far so good. My Honda Goldwing currently has 522,000 miles and the only time it ever failed to start was the time I accidentally left the key turned to the accessory position overnight.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Trevor's Ténéré is an Impact Blue 2012. Trevor, any chance the rain was especially bad? Like enough to get the spark plug wells extra wet? You don't bother with at least a little bit of a cover when stored outside?

 

[jmz]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Mine was acting kinda like yours DCstrom . It turned out I didnt push the fuel pump plug in good the last time I had the tank off. .

 

[dcstrom]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Trevor's Ténéré is an Impact Blue 2012. Trevor, any chance the rain was especially bad? Like enough to get the spark plug wells extra wet? You don't bother with at least a little bit of a cover when stored outside?

Hi Don - nah, at this stage about the only time I cover it is for security reasons. If I'm somewhere safe, I don't usually bother. Anyway it wouldn't have helped on the day of the downpour, it was in the afternoon and I was out and about. Not moving however! So unlikely it got water in the plug caps. They are sealed with silicone too...

I just ran through the diagnostic codes - it's amazing what you can discover by RTFM! And also found this video helpful. It's for an R1 but most of the codes are the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuoZ6JOyr4Y

The manual says "To inform the rider that the fuel injection system is not functioning, the engine trouble warning light flashes while the start switch is being pushed to start the engine." That is what was happening.

However none of the tests show any problem with the FI. In my error code history, a Code 19 - sidestand switch. That's testing ok at the moment, but anyway even if there was a problem with it, it cuts ignition, not FI - right?

So still not clear where the problem came from, bike started just fine now. At least I'm up to date with the diagnostics and if it happens again I can see what's changed...

 

[Cycledude]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Kinda sounds like lousy electrical connection somewhere could be the cause

 

[WJBertrand]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Speaking of hard starts, I clumsily stalled my Tenere at a traffic light but when I went to restart it, it barely turned over, too slowly to catch. This was with the clutch pulled in but the bike still in 1st gear. After several tries I put it into neutral instead and tried again, but it was still reluctant to re-fire and took some throttle to make it happen. I guess oil viscosity or slight clutch drag was enough to prevent spinning the motor over fast enough to start in this case? By then I'd missed the traffic light cycle. This was with the engine fully warm from 30+ minutes riding. I also noticed that the LCD display (Gen2) went blank/partially blank whilst cranking. Seems like the signs of a weak battery but subsequent starts, warm or even from cold after sitting overnight outdoors have been fine. Wonder what's up?

 

[2daMax]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Speaking of hard starts, I clumsily stalled my Tenere at a traffic light but when I went to restart it, it barely turned over, too slowly to catch. This was with the clutch pulled in but the bike still in 1st gear. After several tries I put it into neutral instead and tried again, but it was still reluctant to re-fire and took some throttle to make it happen. I guess oil viscosity or slight clutch drag was enough to prevent spinning the motor over fast enough to start in this case? By then I'd missed the traffic light cycle. This was with the engine fully warm from 30+ minutes riding. I also noticed that the LCD display (Gen2) went blank/partially blank whilst cranking. Seems like the signs of a weak battery but subsequent starts, warm or even from cold after sitting overnight outdoors have been fine. Wonder what's up?

Occured to me once while riding in the rainy weather, around low 80F. There was a group of us that stopped for a photo shoot, and I accidentally stalled while in low speed. Couldn't start up with the clutch pulled in and while in gear and noticed the same blank off LCD when trying to start. I let it sit for 30 secs and then put to Neutral, on and off the key, and manage to start but took like 3 secs turning to start. Battery was weak but am not sure if that is the real cause.

 

[HeliMark]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Load test time, or the inevitable new battery. When I started seeing the display occasionally disappear during starts, I knew I was on borrowed time.

 

[WJBertrand]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Load test time, or the inevitable new battery. When I started seeing the display occasionally disappear during starts, I knew I was on borrowed time.

I've got a long trip to Baker City Oregon (from Ventura, CA) planned at the end of August and I sure don't want to have battery issues. Thinking about throwing the biggest Earth-X Lithium battery that will fit in there or at least upgrading to the YTZ14S before I leave. Thing is the problem has not recurred, but this bike spins over slower than any other bike I've owned from new.

 

[HeliMark]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

I've got a long trip to Baker City Oregon (from Ventura, CA) planned at the end of August and I sure don't want to have battery issues. Thinking about throwing the biggest Earth-X Lithium battery that will fit in there or at least upgrading to the YTZ14S before I leave. Thing is the problem has not recurred, but this bike spins over slower than any other bike I've owned from new.

As you know, weird things start happening to this bike with a battery on its way out. Mine spun a lot faster with the new battery, and no worries 100 miles from anyone.

This bike is way to big to push start.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

 

[Cycledude]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Load test time, or the inevitable new battery. When I started seeing the display occasionally disappear during starts, I knew I was on borrowed time.

Load test in many cases is very good advice but for the starter of this thread I believe it’s a completely different issue.

 

[HeliMark]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Load test in many cases is very good advice but for the starter of this thread I believe it’s a completely different issue.

Yup, your right, that was a response to WJBertrand. As always these like to go in different directions. Sorry to the OP.

 

[dcstrom]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

Ok so yesterday this happened again - twice. Engine will crank but not catch, engine check light flickering. Manual says this indicates an FI problems. Both times it starts after turning off and on. I flicked the kill switch too, dunno it that makes any difference.

Diagnostics history gives me a Code 19 again - sidestand switch. So my question is, could the sidestand switch cause this? I know the proper function is the kill the engine if the bike is put into gear with the sidestand down - which it does - but if it thinks the bike is in gear when it is in neutral, would it let the starter engage while killing ignition or FI?

I know the switch isn't sticky, so there could be a problem in the switch itself. Probably needs a new one, which I'm not going to get here (In Sarajevo the official Yamaha dealer is a workshop at the back of a house ) - so the next question would be - what's the easiest way of bypassing the sidestand switch? If I can't figure this out, that would be the easiest way to test if the switch is the cause, or not...

 

[Jeff Milleman]

Re: weird hard start - not the usual one!

I would say its ether open or closed switch , Ohm it to see then put the wires together or apart to bypass it . On the battery issue I put the YTZ14S and it cranks a lot faster hot .never question it now . The YTZ14S will hold a load longer then the Lithium so I stayed with a conventional battery .

 

[dcstrom]

FIXED (I think)

This seemed to have something to do with the sidestand switch (error code 19) - it started happening in the days after very heavy rain (although I wasn't out riding in it!). I persisted daily for a week, every time I was able to restart the bike by switching off and back on. I was considering cutting wires to bypass the sidestand switch, but first thought I'd try drowning the switch in WD40. Seems to be fixed! No reoccurence in the 6 days since then, and almost 2000 miles covered in that time.