Valve adjustment - more lessons learned

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
Seems like the chain length would be an easy spec for checking chain wear specifically. Clearly, Yamaha does not want chain only replacement.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
It's relatively easy to see how much life is left on your cam chain.
If you are going to check the valves on a higher milage Tenere,
The very first thing to do is remove the clutch cover and block the rear guide forward to keep the chain snug.
Then unbolt the tensioner, as you back out the screws the tensioner should back itself out.
Once the screws are removed just push the tensioner back in with your finger.
The plunger will be fully extended and the gap between the tensioner and cylinder is the amount of adjustment that is left in your tensioner's ability to keep pressure on the guide.
And yes it is fine to replace the chain without replacing any sprockets. This bike isn't a 1970's CT90, They have hardened sprockets that do not wear out in the milage we can put on them
My bike with 276,000 miles has NO noticeable wear on the sprockets. I have replaced the chain once, and probable will again this winter.
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
With that many miles, what has been your history on checks and adjustments? Other than that one valve it looks pretty clean given the miles.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
This is a quote from wera688 last year.

Mine has 178,000 miles. I service the forks yearly. I replaced the wheel bearings at 100K. Spark plugs are replaced every 40-70,000 miles. Other than engine/filter/rear drive oil changes/air filter cleaning, nothing else has been done.
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
This is a quote from wera688 last year.

Mine has 178,000 miles. I service the forks yearly. I replaced the wheel bearings at 100K. Spark plugs are replaced every 40-70,000 miles. Other than engine/filter/rear drive oil changes/air filter cleaning, nothing else has been done.
I would still like to hear what the valves measured at the point the photo was taken. Was it still running with the burnt valve? Rebuilt??

Questions for wera688...

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

wera688

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
116
Location
Newnan GA
I assume my initial valve adjustment interval was not appropriate. I had not checked the valve clearance. Yes it is a burnt exhaust valve. I ride 50-60,000 miles a year so I try to do it at least annually. Since it is my transportation there aren't many days it isn't ridden. But now since I have 2 Teneres, I have a backup bike.
I'm only waiting on back ordered exhaust valve springs to put everything back together, estimated Jan 2022.
"I would still like to hear what the valves measured at the point the photo was taken."

the mileage was 199,003 miles, Nov 4, 2020.
cylinder.jpgcylinder2.JPG
#1 Intake both = .006. #2 Intake both= .005.
#1 Exhaust outer =.004. Inner .004 (cracked). #2 Exhaust outer= no clearance. Inner=.004
#1 cylinder = 0 psi compression. #2 cylinder = 30 psi compression.
 
Last edited:

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
Thanks for the update. Good luck with the repair. Projected cost? DIY?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

wera688

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
116
Location
Newnan GA
cost for 8 valves w/springs, collets, 6 cylinder bolts, gasket & valve oil seals is around $500. It'll be DIY with help from my neighbor to put the head together and lap the valves/seats. There are no reputable Yamaha shops in the Atlanta area that I know of and the labor cost would be outrageous!
 

blitz11

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
312
Location
SW Montana
$500 for parts is probably what a valve adjustment costs if you have it done by a dealer. If you're handy, it's cheaper to run w/o valve adjustments, and just replace parts when they're shot. :eek:

This violates every one of my maintenance principles, but it makes sense financially (and if you have the time).

I have a cam chain ready if/when i have to pull the cams to shim valves. so far, valve clearance hasn't moved. Hy-vo sprockets wear very slowly, so a chain once in a while (say, 200K miles) will keep everything happy for a good, long time.
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
Today It's snowing so I started on my 2012.
Hope this helps out some of you.
The first thing I did was determined if the cam chain needed replaced.
To do this you need to block the rear guide, so it keeps the chain snug.
100_8564.JPG

I have a Graves manual tensioner, and this is what was left on the adjustment, so I knew the chain was getting wore to the limit.
100_8561.JPG
Notice very little threads left on the outside before they go inside the lock nut

This is how much threads it has for adjustment.
100_8562.JPG

I still have the OEM tensioner, Here it is with the plunger all the way out.
100_8563.JPG

I put this into the head to determine how much adjustment it would have had left to push on the guide.
You can see without even pushing in on it that it has very little adjustment left if I was still using the OEM tensioner.
100_8560.JPG

This is the new chain on the left and shows how much longer the old chain is. This is the second time I have replaced the chain now. The first chain had 121,900 miles on it. So this chain had 155,700 miles on it.
100_8570.JPG

And after adjusting and putting it back together, this is what the Graves tensioner looks like now.
100_8571.JPG

And for you that think the sprockets wear out this is what my sprockets look like with 277,588 miles on them. Look like new.
100_8566.JPG

100_8568.JPG
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
Today It's snowing so I started on my 2012.
Hope this helps out some of you.
The first thing I did was determined if the cam chain needed replaced.
To do this you need to block the rear guide, so it keeps the chain snug.
View attachment 88010

I have a Graves manual tensioner, and this is what was left on the adjustment, so I knew the chain was getting wore to the limit.
View attachment 88012
Notice very little threads left on the outside before they go inside the lock nut

This is how much threads it has for adjustment.
View attachment 88011

I still have the OEM tensioner, Here it is with the plunger all the way out.
View attachment 88013

I put this into the head to determine how much adjustment it would have had left to push on the guide.
You can see without even pushing in on it that it has very little adjustment left if I was still using the OEM tensioner.
View attachment 88014

This is the new chain on the left and shows how much longer the old chain is. This is the second time I have replaced the chain now. The first chain had 121,900 miles on it. So this chain had 155,700 miles on it.
View attachment 88015

And after adjusting and putting it back together, this is what the Graves tensioner looks like now.
View attachment 88016

And for you that think the sprockets wear out this is what my sprockets look like with 277,588 miles on them. Look like new.
View attachment 88017

View attachment 88018
Good calibration for the rest of us Steve!
How frequently did you adjust the graves CCT? How were the valves? It would be interesting to know how much the valves have changed since new, given your mileage. It does look like the Graves might give a little more adjustment than the OEM.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
Joined
Jun 20, 2015
Messages
4,516
Location
Ventura, CA
Very interesting. I wonder, did you have a chance to compare the number of links in the old vs. new chain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
Very interesting. I wonder, did you have a chance to compare the number of links in the old vs. new chain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
My guess is they are the same. I wonder how much the chain lengthens at operating temperature. I am assuming the automatic CCTs are used to minimize maintenance and to provide a more consistent pressure??
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
Good calibration for the rest of us Steve!
How frequently did you adjust the graves CCT? How were the valves? It would be interesting to know how much the valves have changed since new, given your mileage. It does look like the Graves might give a little more adjustment than the OEM.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I'll work on trying to answer all the questions.
1--How frequently did you adjust the graves CCT?
When the chain is new, I felt like I was adjusting it quite often, as the miles added up it seemed to slow way down, Just a ruff guess maybe every 10 to 15 thousand.
2---How were the valves?
All intake still in the center of spec. The two outside exhaust were right at .25mm and the two center were just on the tight spec so I put them at .25mm.
It has been 92,200 miles since last adjustment.
3--- It would be interesting to know how much the valves have changed since new,
I have kept pretty good records, The first time that I had to adjust the valves I put [from left to right] 190 190 188 188 in Exhaust. That was at 63,162 miles. I didn't record what size that I took out.
I don't think the intakes have ever been adjusted but if I did dial any of them into the center I just didn't keep track/
The exhaust shims today are 178 182 185 182
4--- It does look like the Graves might give a little more adjustment than the OEM.
That might be true but you would have to be turning the adjustment bolt clear into the locknut and with no threads showing. I would also think that Yamaha made the OEM tensioner to stop adjusting when they thought the chain should be replaced.
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
Very interesting. I wonder, did you have a chance to compare the number of links in the old vs. new chain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
The chains are exact in number of links, If they weren't you couldn't get the cam timing right.
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
My guess is they are the same. I wonder how much the chain lengthens at operating temperature. I am assuming the automatic CCTs are used to minimize maintenance and to provide a more consistent pressure??
The OEM CCT is defiantly the easy way to go. A lot of riders would have a hard time keeping the manual CCT set correctly. Somone with hard of heiring when it just starts to make noise would be riding around with a loose chain. It takes some getting used to and being aware when it just starts to rattle like on no throttle going down a step hill is when I usually first notice it.
 

jbrown

Active Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
373
Location
Novato, CA
How much wear do the chain guides show after all those miles?
Chain adjustment issues can go both ways - if you're too picky about the noise, you could keep the chain too tight and wear it faster.
I think everyone develops a "feel" for what they think is right, but I suspect many choose something that is always loose or always tight, depending on their sensitivity to the S10 set of noises.
 

holligl

Find the road less traveled...
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
2,212
Location
IL/AZ
It has been 92,200 miles since last adjustment.
3--- It would be interesting to know how much the valves have changed since new,
I have kept pretty good records, The first time that I had to adjust the valves I put [from left to right] 190 190 188 188 in Exhaust. That was at 63,162 miles. I didn't record what size that I took out.
I don't think the intakes have ever been adjusted but if I did dial any of them into the center I just didn't keep track/
The exhaust shims today are 178 182 185 182
I like to think of the measurements in terms of the .06mm range:
1.9 - 1.78 = .12 (2x range)
1.9 - 1.82 = .08 (1.3x)
1.88 - 1.85 = .03 (.5x)
1.88 - 1.82 = .06 (1x)
They do seem to wear inconsistently. Given the wear and mileage, it kind of supports the spec interval for worst case wear. Possibly 40k if you feel lucky.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
How much wear do the chain guides show after all those miles?
I actually purchased front and rear guides before I changed the chain the first time. There is no way to replace the front guide without pulling the head. I went ahead and replaced the rear guide at that time but there was not noticeable wear on the old guide. To replace the chain you have to unbolt the chain guide at the bottom sprocket, so the rear guide just falls out at that time. It still looked brand new. I don't see any reason to ever replace the guides.
 

eemsreno

Well-Known Member
Founding Member
2011 Site Supporter
2012 Site Supporter
2013 Site Supporter
2014 Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2010
Messages
3,227
Location
On your way to everywhere, , Iowa
Chain adjustment issues can go both ways - if you're too picky about the noise, you could keep the chain too tight and wear it faster.
I think everyone develops a "feel" for what they think is right, but I suspect many choose something that is always loose or always tight, depending on their sensitivity to the S10 set of noises.
The little experience that I have had with other guys putting in the Manual tensioner then contacting me saying they think their bike is noisy , I have told them to try tightening the tensioner more and see if that helps, They always set it up for the first time on the "safe" side and it is noisy. The chain actually runs pretty tight with the OEM tensioner. I try to mess with the chain to see just how tight it is before removing the OEM then try to get the manual tensioner to have about the same tension.
 
Top