**Tire Debate** Mileage vs Safety. Hard Compound vs Soft Compound

[jeckyll]

Depends on the gravel, but I've done 70 with no problems, while other times 20 maybe too much.

Like so often the answer is 'it depends'

 

[Checkswrecks]

The Tenere is top heavy and unless you keep the gyroscopes spinning fast, it prefers to nap when it comes to sand, regardless of tires.

 

[EricV]

Chris, that video doesn't tell me anything except that he experienced some tire slip. What was on the surface of the road? We don't know. tires don't just randomly slip. You well know the full range of things that can be on the road to cause that. We can't tell from the video. He might not even know if he didn't go back and look.

I've had Metzeler Tourance EXPs do that on a TX FM road with a lot of greasy tar content in the rain. (not really tar, but I'm not a road engineer) Didn't do it under any other conditions. Some people loved those tires.

What jeckyll said about gravel. I've ridden this particular stretch of road many times, on street front and CT rear on a FJR and on the Super Ten with K60 Scouts at the same speeds. The strait stretches can easily be 50-70 with no issue. The canyon is much slower and some of the turns are washed out and slower as well.

From Hwy 447 North of Gerlach to outside Susanville, CA. Smoke Creek Road. About 60 miles. I once did it in just over an hour on the FJR.
LINK

 

[Sierra1]

Watching that video, in slow motion, that tire left yaw marks. To do so, it was gripping the pavement. It also sounded like he applied throttle. I mean it IS a knobby tire....leaned over in a curve....on pavement. That's why I use 90/10 tires.

 

[jeckyll]

Watching that video, in slow motion, that tire left yaw marks. To do so, it was gripping the pavement. It also sounded like he applied throttle. I mean it IS a knobby tire....leaned over in a curve....on pavement. That's why I use 90/10 tires.

Exactly, which make it safer to ride on the road.

Different type of tire, different construction, better road handling capabilities = safer tire for road riding.

 

[jeckyll]

...<snip>...


@ jeckyll - I don't disagree with what you said. Too often I see spirited riders that are not able to deal with the unexpected. Deliberately dragging hard parts on a regular basis is not leaving any room for error. If you get even a tiny thrill of adrenaline from riding on the street, step back and look hard at that behavior. The thrill is because you lack the skills to KNOW you can make that corner at that speed. If you had the skills, you wouldn't get the adrenaline rush from it. That is fact. One few people will accept. I enjoy a spirited ride as much as the next person. I'm not scaring myself when I'm doing it.

If you're riding the same roads all the time, sell the bike. Buy a track bike and go to the track days. You'll have more fun and won't miss street riding any.

You don't agree with what I said then. Let me re-state:

If you can ride so that you can react intelligently to the unexpected, then whatever speed your doing, or whatever lean angle you have, is OK. Maybe most people can't ride at that level. For them, not OK.

So, let's talk sport bikes, if you can ride twisties and drag a knee, and still react to the unexpected, you're OK at that speed. Even if it's double the posted limit.

This statement " If you get even a tiny thrill of adrenaline from riding on the street, step back and look hard at that behavior." made me shake my head. I can get a trill and still know I can make the corner. Or react to a deer on the road, or someone pulling out of a driveway (though just about all my spirited riding is away from driveways ). Or someone riding a horse or walking their dog. Or an RV crossing the centerline.

" If you had the skills, you wouldn't get the adrenaline rush from it. That is fact. " Point me to this fact, where is it documented, in what peer reviewed study?

And I've got a bike that does fine at the track

 

[ballisticexchris]

Man that’s a nice bike jeckyll ! The video I posted was to simply show that a subpar tire can break loose with no warning. It’s spooky to see something like that on dry perfect pavement. I try to get tires that give me ample warnings before letting go on pavement. I am lucky for the fact I know how a bike feels when losing traction. Most guys that don’t see dirt are relying on traction only.

 

[EricV]

Yes, nice bike for the track. So why ride at a spirited pace on the street? And what I said was if you're dragging hard parts, not a knee down. Knee down doesn't mean dragging hard parts and you still have a margin to adjust. If you're dragging hard parts, no margin.

And I stand by my previous words. If you're getting a thrill, you're not sure you can make it. Own that and consider the truth. If you knew you could make it, it's just riding. Take it to the track for the adrenalin rush.

 

[jeckyll]

Yes, nice bike for the track. So why ride at a spirited pace on the street? And what I said was if you're dragging hard parts, not a knee down. Knee down doesn't mean dragging hard parts and you still have a margin to adjust. If you're dragging hard parts, no margin.

And I stand by my previous words. If you're getting a thrill, you're not sure you can make it. Own that and consider the truth. If you knew you could make it, it's just riding. Take it to the track for the adrenalin rush.

I own everything I need to own and have for decades

 

[Sierra1]

And I've got a bike that does fine at the track

Is that bike that small, or are you that big?

 

[Sierra1]

….If you're getting a thrill, you're not sure you can make it....If you knew you could make it, it's just riding. Take it to the track for the adrenalin rush.

Hmmmm....never thought about it that way. And, you're probably right. But....I'm kinda weird. The track isn't scary to me. It's actually calming....everybody is paying attention to what they're doing....nobody is on a cell phone....nobody is drunk....and nobody is doing 15mph under the speed limit, with their left blinker on. The street is where I'm not sure I'll make it; but it's not a good adrenalin rush. Gimme a good road with no dumbasses, and a good view....THAT's where I get the thrill. Oh, almost forgot....gotta have my music too.

 

[Jlq1969]

I think, are confusing the Hormones. Eric refers to ADRENALINE, like the the boy in the video secretes because he scare when skid ... Sierra, you're talking about ENDORPHINE, because you enjoy what you do .... If the tire makes you feel adrenaline, it's not the right tire ,or is the tire adequate but the driving style is incorrect...I think the video, it was the pilot's mistake, it is not the factory tire, he would have to know that with that tire, he cannot accelerate in that way in a curve. It is not a matter of hard or soft compounds

 

[Boris]

I was in France a couple of weeks back and at the top of the Col De La Bonnette I was approached by another Brit who went on to tell me about how I wasn’t touring correctly, how I should be camping instead of hotels, how I was missing out by not doing the passes he’d done, as they were better, how he’d toured multiple times so knew better, how his open face lid was better suited to touring and so on............... he appeared to assume I was a novice and took no time to engage in discussion, but just talked at me, trying to impose his opinions on me. He was a nice enough chap, but just another I, I, I, me, me, me, I know best, preachy biker, we all know them.

I made my excuses and left.

 

[squarebore]

I was in France a couple of weeks back and at the top of the Col De La Bonnette I was approached by another Brit who went on to tell me about how I wasn’t touring correctly, how I should be camping instead of hotels, how I was missing out by not doing the passes he’d done, as they were better, how he’d toured multiple times so knew better, how his open face lid was better suited to touring and so on............... he appeared to assume I was a novice and took no time to engage in discussion, but just talked at me, trying to impose his opinions on me. He was a nice enough chap, but just another I, I, I, me, me, me, I know best, preachy biker, we all know them.

I made my excuses and left.

Haha, yeah we have one here. Lucky he knows it all so we don't need an opinion or a thought.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[cyclemike4]

I have read it someplace probably on this forum. Use your superior intelligence so you don't have to use your superior skills. I think no statement could be more useful in the world of motorcycling. We all enjoy riding for different reasons but the common factor is we enjoy riding and to do so must use some common sense. No we can't control every situation that confronts us but we can try to predict things that could be. I have tried street tires, 80-20 tires and now on 50-50 tires. No they don't stop or turn like a street tire and i realize that. As a matter of fact i still ride a bike with single leading shoe drum brakes. It stops great one time then the brakes have to cool. I realize that and ride it appropriately. No one tire will fit the bill for every situation but at least we can find tires that will more closely fit our likes and needs. That is one of the most important things for me. Believe me i take mental notes on how every tire i use works. Everything from stopping distances to handling in all conditions. ( i ride year round). Even the tire weight and how it affects the suspension. I make my decisions on facts that only pertain to my bike and my riding style. I still love to read all about others opinions of tires bikes and anything to do with motorcycling. More information can't hurt and every now and then i find a bit that really helps me be a better rider!

 

[Jlq1969]

Let me add something about the video. If instead of a 95hp Africa Twin, it would have been a 140 / 160hp, the one you want ... we would probably have seen the video, but I don't think it was narrated by the driver. If you are lucky, the adrenaline you feel once and it helps you to learn. If you are not lucky, the adrenaline you feel once, and it helps others learn

 

[EricV]

I think, are confusing the Hormones. Eric refers to ADRENALINE, like the the boy in the video secretes because he scare when skid ... Sierra, you're talking about ENDORPHINE, because you enjoy what you do .... If the tire makes you feel adrenaline, it's not the right tire ,or is the tire adequate but the driving style is incorrect...I think the video, it was the pilot's mistake, it is not the factory tire, he would have to know that with that tire, he cannot accelerate in that way in a curve. It is not a matter of hard or soft compounds

Perhaps you're right Jiq. That's not a distinction I've made in the past. I don't ride for thrills. I see people that do as just another hazard to avoid. Sadly, probably 80% of the riders I see on the road don't know how to ride on the street and have never been taught a different way to ride on the street.

I admit I am different. I see sports as games to play, not to watch. It is beyond my comprehension why anyone, ever, watches sports. Unless your kid is playing, what's the point? Go play a game. Do things, don't watch others do them. Same thing here. It is beyond me why someone thinks a thing is safe or unsafe. The thing can't think or act. Only we can think and act based upon those thoughts. Applying reason to what we learn, see and experience to determine cause and effect.

Chris wanted a debate. Mileage Vs safety. I don't see those as mutually exclusive things. The tire you choose may impact your riding style. For the greater part of how you can ride on the street with a responsible view of the reality that other road users are out there and unpredictable, I just don't see tire compound having a significant impact on how we ride or our individual safety.

What I hear some of you defending, is that you prefer a softer compound tire so you can ride the way you want to with more security as to how it will behave. I don't equate that to more safety or a safer tire. That's just you wanting to ride closer to the edge of tire adhesion.

 

[jeckyll]

Is that bike that small, or are you that big?

I'm 6'1".

It's definitely small next to the superT
Though compared to the current Tuono mine looks larger, the v-twin is more upright compared to the v-4.

 

[ballisticexchris]

Chris wanted a debate. Mileage Vs safety. I don't see those as mutually exclusive things. I just don't see tire compound having a significant impact on how we ride or our individual safety.

OK Eric, Fair enough, well then take how about you take a nice long lasting street tire and ride in the dirt and see how safe it is. No matter how good of a rider you are a smooth tire will not be safe when getting off the pavement. Please don't take my word for it. Simply ride up to the Jimmy Lewis Riding School on anything less than a knobby mounted on your bike. You will either mount a big block knobby or not be included in the class. Why? Because it's not safe.

On the pavement we can adjust our riding style with a knobby and stay pretty safe. On the dirt with anything less than a knobby you are just tempting fate. Even a world class rider such as Jimmy knows this. It's just a matter of time before something bad happens. And it happens without warning. The rider, no matter how skilled, cannot control the outcome with subpar tires in the dirt.

 

[EricV]

Read thru my posts again. I've worn out 10+ sets of K60s. I usually do run a 50/50 tire. I never said anything about not choosing a tire to suit your needs. I don't need to adjust my riding style any to keep up with you or anyone else on the street while running K60s or Mitas E07 Dakars. Neither is the perfect tire for flogging the twisties on the street. I'm sure you can walk away from me on the track even if we had identical bikes and tires. I'm not competing with you or anyone else. Certainly not on the street. And I've ridden plenty of gravel and dirt two track on street tires. I'm sure I'm slower than if I had true knobbie tread pattern. So what?

Knobbies are not necessarily soft compound until you get to true dirt tires. Softer? Maybe. K60s aren't knobbies either. Read what you quoted again. That applies to the street. Off pavement still offers many tire choices. Depends on what you want to do. If I know I'm going to be running off pavement only, or nearly only, I'll get something like Kenda Big Blocks for that. The rear will wear out in 2500-3k miles depending on how much pavement it sees, but the open tread clears mud and bites in loose stuff a lot better. Those tires would not be my choice for more pavement riding than dirt. They aren't "safer" they do have lower limits before they break loose, but not so low that I need to modify my street riding. And yes, I have run Big Blocks on dirt/gravel and pavement enough to know this first hand. On my Super Ten.

You're not tempting fate with less than full knobbies unless you ride above what the tire can handle. That's not the fault of the tire, it's the fault of the rider.

You appear to lack the experience to understand the topic. You apparently have no experience with longer lasting tires like Heidenau K60 Scouts or Mitas E07 Dakars, (both 50/50 tires), and you're basing your ideas and opinions on tires like ME880 street tires. That's not the comparison I'm making. I suspect that you are not capable of running a tire 10-12k that others have no problem getting that mileage from. Not because you lack any skills. Just because of your personal riding style.

What's the most mileage you have ever gotten from any tire you've run on the Super Ten. Or any other bike? Please specify tire and bike it was run on.