Super Tenere Break In

[Blue_eyes]

Read the article a couple of time, nice for the belivers but it does not change my
experience of course. It works great to use the procedure described by the manual.

When talking about getting maximum power from the engine as quick as possible
the hard break-in might have an edge (?) but I mostly care for durability, fuel economy
and to have the bike generally working good as a unit. Of course there should be no
noticable oil consumption either!
I should not get into a debate, just share my experience.


Greetings!

Well, if that is what you are after, AND you've read the article, then you should NOT continue with your current way of breaking in.

The article clearly states that breaking in the "NEW WAY" improves durability, fuel economy, etc....

I am not interested in a debate about this either, but just find your conclusions / motivation odd.
They (an athoritative organization) examines the effects and come to very clear conclusions about what is bad and what is good, and then you continue doing the wrong thing...
I find that strange. Holding onto old beliefs inspite of the facts. In earlier days people believed the world was flat too...

I do not want to offend you I just cannot understand why people so desperately have the need to hold onto old habits/beliefs while science has proven them wrong.

 

[bonzer2u]

Well, if that is what you are after, AND you've read the article, then you should NOT continue with your current way of breaking in.

The article clearly states that breaking in the "NEW WAY" improves durability, fuel economy, etc....

I am not interested in a debate about this either, but just find your conclusions / motivation odd.
They (an athoritative organization) examines the effects and come to very clear conclusions about what is bad and what is good, and then you continue doing the wrong thing...
I find that strange. Holding onto old beliefs inspite of the facts. In earlier days people believed the world was flat too...

I do not want to offend you I just cannot understand why people so desperately have the need to hold onto old habits while science has proven them wrong.

Hmmmmm, Well if the 'new' way is so much better and scientifically proven, why doesnt Yami and others publish/recommend it in their manuals???????????????

 

[Blue_eyes]

Hmmmmm, Well if the 'new' way is so much better and scientifically proven, why doesnt Yami and others publish/recommend it in their manuals???????????????

The answer was already provided in this topic.

To avoid liability claims. They want you to first get used to the bike/car slowly to avoid you having an accident and suing them. And these companies hold on to old beliefs too, because it has always worked for them the old way, why would they bother/change?
The benefit of the new way is for you, not them, so why would they bother? It takes time for companies (and man) to change old believes, as any change introduces (some new form of) risk.

Over time car/bike manufacturing companies will change their viewpoint on this subject. As the article indicates, it is hard to implement these new insights in those companies.

 

[bonzer2u]

The answer was already provided in this topic.

To avoid liability claims. They want you to first get used to the bike/car slowly to avoid you having an accident and suing them. And these companies hold on to old beliefs too, because it has always worked for them the old way, why would they bother/change?
The benefit of the new way is for you, not them, so why would they bother? It takes time for companies (and man) to change old believes, as any change introduces (some new form of) risk.

Over time car/bike manufacturing companies will change their viewpoint on this subject. As the article indicates, it is hard to implement these new insights in those companies.

I have been an FAA licensed aircraft mechanic since 1981 and have overhauled powerplants ranging from 4-cyl lycoming's, to WW2 era Pratt-Whitney 9 cylinder radials to Rolls v-12's and have never run in any engine according to your 'new' protocol. All manufacturers have a specific break-in procedure and with aircraft engines its always a series of varying rpm at 'x amount of minutes with shut-downs in between.

The single common denominator in any new engine run-in is varying rpm's in a graceful method, AKA not over-revving until the break-in is complete which is exactly what yamaha (and everyone else) indicates with clearly stating to not cruise at a given speed in the same gear for an extended period of time AND not exceed a certain rpm range. All you folks that prescribe to any other method then what the manufacturer recommends are being taken for a ride.

 

[Blue_eyes]

I have been an FAA licensed aircraft mechanic since 1981 and have overhauled powerplants ranging from 4-cyl lycoming's, to WW2 era Pratt-Whitney 9 cylinder radials to Rolls v-12's and have never run in any engine according to your 'new' protocol. All manufacturers have a specific break-in procedure and with aircraft engines its always a series of varying rpm at 'x amount of minutes with shut-downs in between.

The single common denominator in any new engine run-in is varying rpm's in a graceful method, AKA not over-revving until the break-in is complete which is exactly what yamaha (and everyone else) indicates with clearly stating to not cruise at a given speed in the same gear for an extended period of time AND not exceed a certain rpm range. All you folks that prescribe to any other method then what the manufacturer recommends are being taken for a ride.

Have you even read the document at all? This is exactly what this is all about. Times are changing, new insights emerge, technology evolves, science advances, and some prefer to stay behind.

 

[bonzer2u]

Have you even read the document at all? This is exactly what this is all about. Times are changing, new insights emerge, technology evolves, science advances, and some prefer to stay behind.

Yah, I started to read it and quickly got dis-interested......... never finished it to be honest...

In some instances there is no-school like old-school.....

Whatever, its your bike, or plane or train or automobile..........DOH.

Too each his or her own, Your not going to change my mind.

 

[bikerdoc]

The answer was already provided in this topic.

To avoid liability claims. They want you to first get used to the bike/car slowly to avoid you having an accident and suing them. And these companies hold on to old beliefs too, because it has always worked for them the old way, why would they bother/change?
The benefit of the new way is for you, not them, so why would they bother? It takes time for companies (and man) to change old believes, as any change introduces (some new form of) risk.

Over time car/bike manufacturing companies will change their viewpoint on this subject. As the article indicates, it is hard to implement these new insights in those companies.

That statement may have some validity, in those jurisdictions where such legal options exist and there is one very litigious country that springs to mind though I'm sure there might be others. That being the case though, where I am from, and places I have lived in, that is not even an option. Even so, it would be fairly easy for the legal team to lend their pen-men-ship to the relevant technical publication section to reflect a statement worded to the effect that riding "full throttle after engine warm up from the get go, up to the legal speed limit allowable" or some such wording, would cover them. That being said, while I see both sides I'd be more likely to go with the manufacturers recommendations so as to keep within warranty - if nothing else. I've owned a whole range of bikes, both used and new and never had any issues... concerning premature engine/piston/rings/bottom end bearings and the like on the engines I've run in. Even had a fully worked rally car engine some years back with a very lumpy cam, that did very well... & I run it in as per the mechanics recommended method, nothing aggressive, do not cruise nor nothing sustained in any one gear for too longer a period of time...which is similar to Yamaha's and most automotive manufacturers recommendations. IMO the manufacturers should know best, they have a whole R&D dept., full of engineers; something I'm not. If they say do it this way then I'm likely going to listen.
Again, it's an open debate, and there 'll be those that sit just either side of it, with others that are polarised by it.
Just my 0.02c

 

[Blue_eyes]

While the traditional way of breaking in has proven effective in preventing (traditional/high tolerance) engines from becoming overstressed as history learned us, it is just not the most optimal way for modern low tolerance, high compression, high temperature engines. The "new" way is just far better as it reduces friction and wear significantly.

That's all the scientific study reveals.

Time will tell.

And I agree that in some instances there is no school like old school, as I am old school myself, but you also have to be willing to change views in life as new information and experience is provided.

Life is all about advancing, learning our past, impacting our present, embracing our future.

 

[Firefight911]

So, change crush washers or not? Synthetic or dino? Do I need to change my pneumatic fluid seasonally to compensate for weather changes?

 

[Blue_eyes]

So, change crush washers or not? Synthetic or dino? Do I need to change my pneumatic fluid seasonally to compensate for weather changes?

I would suggest, let's ::021::

 

[markjenn]

I would suggest, let's ::021::

Agreed. You say you're "not interested in debating the topic".... then stop endlessly posting the same thing and rebutting anyone who has a different opinion. You've made your points.

- Mark

 

[Blue_eyes]

Agreed. You say you're "not interested in debating the topic".... then stop endlessly posting the same thing and rebutting anyone who has a different opinion. You've made your points.

- Mark

Having a discussion implies exchanging opinions and sometimes requires repeating the same message in different wording. I respect other peoples opinion as much as my own, I just try to understand what brings them to that opinion and I challenge that to test it's validity. Just like science prove its right by trying to prove it's wrong

 

[s-flow]

I would suggest, let's ::021::

Agree, I will settle here.. Think we all can feel pretty safe and agree to disagree if that is needed.
Also, I will consider another break-in method next time.. if I dare

Hopefully many, many years into the future though. ::003::

 

[Blue_eyes]

::003::

::020::

::021::

 

[markjenn]

Having a discussion implies exchanging opinions and sometimes requires repeating the same message in different wording. I respect other peoples opinion as much as my own, I just try to understand what brings them to that opinion and I challenge that to test it's validity. Just like science prove its right by trying to prove it's wrong

The problem is there is almost no "science" involved here, or if there is, it would accurately be termed "junk science". Nobody has conducted a good investigation of different break-in strategies, done detailed scientific studies, or gathered any significant data. So what we are left with inferring what we think is probably occurring in an engine during break-in and how a different strategy might work better or worse. It's really no different than discussing when to change your oil, what type of chain lube works best, etc.

I don't want to discount the points you've made because their certainly good ones. As are some of the ones made by others. I could rebut a bunch of things you made in your original post that I don't think are valid, but honestly, this has been played out on countless motorcycle forums for decades now and there is no new information that adds to the discussion. Everybody has weighed in. So in the "Ride more, worry less" vein, I suggest we move on.

- Mark

 

[Blue_eyes]

The problem is there is almost no "science" involved here, or if there is, it would accurately be termed "junk science". Nobody has conducted a good investigation of different break-in strategies, done detailed scientific studies, or gathered any significant data. So what we are left with inferring what we think is probably occurring in an engine during break-in and how a different strategy might work better or worse. It's really no different than discussing when to change your oil, what type of chain lube works best, etc.

I don't want to discount the points you've made because their certainly good ones. As are some of the ones made by others. I could rebut a bunch of things you made in your original post that I don't think are valid, but honestly, this has been played out on countless motorcycle forums for decades now and there is no new information that adds to the discussion. Everybody has weighed in. So in the "Ride more, worry less" vein, I suggest we move on.

- Mark

That is absurd! The study I refer to is exactly that!

Suggesting that the study of Mr. Peter Berlet and the Karlsruher Institut für Technologie (KIT) and their conclusions qualifies as "junk science" is an outright insult to them.

See http://www.atzlive.de/pdf/reibungsminimierung_2009.pdf and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlsruhe_Institute_of_Technology

You better do your due dilligence before making such statements. IMOH you just disqualified your credibility.

For me this case is closed and dealth with.

 

[colorider]

So, change crush washers or not? Synthetic or dino? Do I need to change my pneumatic fluid seasonally to compensate for weather changes?

Crush washers are SO much easier to deal with!
::017::

 

[Firefight911]

Crush washers are SO much easier to deal with!
::017::

I dunno, they are circular so I have a hard time figuring out where the start and end. ::013::

 

[markjenn]

That is absurd! The study I refer to is exactly that!....Suggesting that the study of Mr. Peter Berlet and the Karlsruher Institut für Technologie (KIT) and their conclusions qualifies as "junk science" is an outright insult to them.

I wasn't referring to this particular study in my comment, but I can see how you might have thought this and I apologize. Honestly, I don't know enough German to give it a good read. But I do acknowledge that at least on the surface it concludes that you don't want to baby your engine excessively during break-in, something I've agreed with since the beginning of this thread. But to translate this to your recommended strategy is a leap I can't make. Time to let this one slide.

- Mark

 

[Tremor38]

Crush washers are SO much easier to deal with!
::017::

::008::