Super Ten Clutch

[thompn]

Hey all,

I have a 2015 bike, I bought it last year with 8,000km on the clock. I've since put almost 12,000km of fun on it. It was dealer serviced at purchase and then again at 10,000km. I live in NL, which is largely flat and boring. I've been riding forest roads here which include compacted gravel, loose stone, mud and a fair bit of sand. I've been off road as much as I can, mostly every weekend for ,50/50 on/off road riding. I've also done some longer off road trips through Germany, Poland, Austria and Czechia. The bike has always been fantastic, I have no complaints. It's a tank and has served me really well so far.

Today I rode 100km on highway and then rode some sand trails which were largely wet and/or compacted - not really proper loose sand. My issue then arose.

I felt some clutch slip on the trails which I initially put down to TCS mode 2 which is what I usually use on the non super loose surfaces, it allows me to slip the back end out enough to enjoy the trails but not lose it hard if I push it too far. Again, I have no complaints when doing this usually.

I then noticed the gear indicator was blank at 4-7k rpm and the revs just seemed high Vs power output. The clutch just kept slipping at higher rpm. I stopped, cooled the bike and just wanted to take it easy and ride home on tarmac only.

After about 10 mins of slow speed riding the clutch was just gone. First gear, no movement. 7k in first... Nothing. Clutch was just non existent. After 30 mins I could stand the bike in 1st and it was like being in neutral. Obviously the clutch is gone, and that's fine because that happens and it's part of owning and riding a bike

The concern and question I have now is... This is an advertised hardcore adventure bike, I have ridden it off road through multiple countries with absolutely no issue and then within the space of an hour the clutch dies. The bike has done 20,000km total. What do you more experienced super ten owners think of this level of longevity? Id have expected more from the bike. I have owned for just 10 months and have done about 1500km total of purely off road riding in relatively easy terrain and suddenly the clutch has completely died. I am not really a clutch slipping rider, and don't think there is a huge difference between my on and off road clutch use.

I must also state I did not smell a typical burnt clutch smell at all on my bike.

Have I missed something here? Is there some clutch issues that are well known with this bike? Was I putting too much through the clutch by riding in fairly basic off road settings and slipping the clutch every now and again? Could the previous owner have just ridden the clutch to the point of no return? Is there a time/age limit on clutches with this bike?

I owned an F800 GS and MT 07 prior to this and never had an issue with the clutch despite the BMW being ridden almost exclusively off road. Maybe there is a massive weight difference which caused me to burn my clutch now?

I'm still a massive enthusiast and I will sing the praises of this bike to no end because it's been absolutely solid so far with everything I've thrown at it, but I can't help but feel a bit disappointed that an adventure bike has been defeated by the world's flattest country where off road trails are super basic.

Maybe I'm missing something here so I guess I'm just looking for people's opinion of the super ten clutch

 

[~TABASCO~]

Pull the cover and take a look FIRST !

Ive seen this happen before in Colorado and in Mexico. Both of these guys are similar to your story. Both these guys had melted parts.
I can only speak about my experience with helping them. They both road off road with TC turn (ON) and the bike constantly fighting TC while off road.
I personally ride off road as much as possible aggressively and have not had any issues. I contribute this to two things, I ride with TC turned OFF 99.9% of the time , and I have a Barnett pressure plate with some pretty stiff springs installed.
While traveling across Utah off road I buried the rear of the bike to the frame many times in all the silt and sand. Never had an issue with the clutch. Im still on my stock original clutch plates that are now almost ten years old. I keep an eye on them and know they are still looking good.
If your able, please pull the cover and take several pictures and share them on the forum. Just by reading your info, I’m just guessing you will need a new clutch pack. I suggest using stock parts from Yamaha. And also adding a Barnett pressure plate.
While your inside there replace 24-25-26 and flush the clutch fluid.
I’ve been down this road a ‘few’ times.
While off road I would also suggest turning your traction control OFF !!

 

[thompn]

Hey there Tabasco, thanks a lot for the info. I have searched this forum before also for the same stuff and have found the same info. Obviously I've tried the clutch - it happens and I can accept that. I'll get the bike back on Monday when I go and collect it (today is Saturday for those viewing this thread down the line) and I'll post pics regardless because I think it's important to just show people on these question thread.

I've already done a lot of searching and think I will need a new clutch (it's fine - again, that's part of owning a motorcycle) and will also try to make sure I get the best clutch and basket for my use case - riding off road.

The stuff springs is interesting and something I can fit now if that will help me - will a stiffer clutch spring help me when using more clutch off road? ( I assume I should approach my problems as being off road specific since that can be the cause of my problems even if my bike isnt 100% off road ridden, but doing that will cause more issues long term). I've found an "upgraded" clutch which is found mentioned on this forum a lot - is it worth upgrading to this assuming I'll see a similar issue in the future if I don't... For now money isn't an issue for me and I'm happy to spend more on expensive parts which will just last longer if I want to spend more time riding off road...

 

[~TABASCO~]

In your case it’s ‘probably’ off road with the TC that has ‘caused’ the issue. Don’t know until we see inside.
You probably don’t need a basket. IMOP I would not go find some expensive clutch. Stick a stock clutch pack back in. The Barnett pressure plate uses 6 coil springs instead of the diaphragm spring that basically sucks. If you like off road like me, you need the Barnett pressure plate. It also comes with 3 sets of springs with 3 different tensions to try out.
Again I’m guessing- after you replace the pack and add the Barnett you should be good.
What oil are you running? Have you just recently changed the oil, or had a shop just recently change the oil. You will cook a clutch fast with the wrong oil.

 

[gv550]

Is there any possibility you have ‘energy conserving’ oil in the engine? I would also check for problems with the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder, maybe they are preventing the pressure plate from fully engaging.
I have a 2016 with 180,000 kms and I know I have abused the clutch several times, slipping it while climbing over rocks and stuck in sand and mud. Original clutch and no slippage while riding and accelerating.
I agree with suggestions here, remove the cover and inspect the plates.

 

[thompn]

In your case it’s ‘probably’ off road with the TC that has ‘caused’ the issue. Don’t know until we see inside.

My thought is that I'm approaching the 10k service interval and I've also been riding on sand and doing a fair bit of slipping (read: abuse) of the clutch, so if the oil is almost ready for a change I could have torched it and that's that. I'll be going to collect the bike with a van in the coming days so when I get it home I can have a look and see whats happening inside. Thanks for the recommendation on a new pressure plate - i'll do some more reading on that front.

Is there any possibility you have ‘energy conserving’ oil in the engine? I would also check for problems with the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder, maybe they are preventing the pressure plate from fully engaging.
I have a 2016 with 180,000 kms and I know I have abused the clutch several times, slipping it while climbing over rocks and stuck in sand and mud. Original clutch and no slippage while riding and accelerating.
I agree with suggestions here, remove the cover and inspect the plates.

At the last service Yamalube 10W40 was put in, that was at 10,168km and I'm now at about 19,500 or thereabouts if my memory serves.

Interesting you say you've not been kind to your clutch and not had issues with it. I was shocked that at 20k the clutch would die like that, and so fast without any signs it was about to go.
I did also read about the hydraulic clutch system causing friction issues on another post on here, which was frantically googled on the trail .

When I get the bike back I'll check everything out and get some photos so I can then plan next steps. I was going to put the bike into my local shop for the 20k service, as itll likely need some other bits doing and I don't really have the space where I live to do it. I could do a new clutch relatively easily, but not dropping fluids etc etc.

If it's the clutch hydraulics I can sort that out myself and that will save me some headaches with a new clutch pack.

Thanks both for the advice, I'll update this week once I get the bike back (and cleaned)

 

[Boris]

You mentioned upgraded clutch in your post #3. If this refers to the basket, yours won’t need it, being a Gen 2 2015 bike. It was the Gen1 bikes where some had basket issues.

If you decide to open up the clutch cover, this may help. Not all is relevant to your needs, but some of it might help.

http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads/Removing%20and%20Replacing%20the%20Yamaha%20XT1200%20Clutch%20Basket.pdf

 

[EricV]

The story here is not about bad parts, it's about learning to correct bad behavior that you didn't realize was bad behavior. If you enjoy flogging the bike off road, you should not be relying on TC to save you if you get over zealous with the throttle, you just burned up the clutch doing that. W/o the TC on, it wouldn't have been constantly fighting to control your right wrist. I put over 100k miles on my '12 with enough off pavement to experience the difference of TC on in different modes and OFF, and always shut it off after I realized what TABASCO said was happening. Never needed to replace my clutch or had any issues aside from vibrations and changing to the new style hub. ~46k on a '15 too, no issues there.

 

[EricV]

My thought is that I'm approaching the 10k service interval

Please stop calling it that. My sides hurt from laughing and my wife is glaring at me. It's called an "Oil and filter change". You're talking about changing out your own clutch plates, but were going to take it to a dealer for an oil change? What did you think they were going to do?

10W40 describes a viscosity selection, not what oil was used. If you don't know... Don't ever let whomever changed the oil do it again on your bike w/o finding out exactly what they are using.

 

[thompn]

You mentioned upgraded clutch in your post #3. If this refers to the basket, yours won’t need it, being a Gen 2 2015 bike. It was the Gen1 bikes where some had basket issues.

If you decide to open up the clutch cover, this may help. Not all is relevant to your needs, but some of it might help.

http://www.vibefreev.com/downloads/Removing%20and%20Replacing%20the%20Yamaha%20XT1200%20Clutch%20Basket.pdf

Yeah I was under the impression that my bike has the upgraded basket, but I think upgrading to a better/stiffer pressure plate would be a good idea. Thanks for the link, that is most useful. Also found a good video on this forum of someone doing a full clutch pack and basket replacement which looks simple enough.

The story here is not about bad parts, it's about learning to correct bad behavior that you didn't realize was bad behavior. If you enjoy flogging the bike off road, you should not be relying on TC to save you if you get over zealous with the throttle, you just burned up the clutch doing that. W/o the TC on, it wouldn't have been constantly fighting to control your right wrist. I put over 100k miles on my '12 with enough off pavement to experience the difference of TC on in different modes and OFF, and always shut it off after I realized what TABASCO said was happening. Never needed to replace my clutch or had any issues aside from vibrations and changing to the new style hub. ~46k on a '15 too, no issues there.

Yeah, this is actually the first bike I've had with TC, so that's a learning curve for sure. I was used to riding offroad on a 650GS which didnt have it, and also a few dirt bikes so I've never actually used TC before off road. I was keeping it on just as a learning curve to taking it off since this is a much bigger and more powerful bike. Lesson learned!

 

[Boris]

In post #6 he clearly stated Yamalube 10/40. Semi or fully synthetic is irrelevant as both are suitable.

 

[thompn]

Please stop calling it that. My sides hurt from laughing and my wife is glaring at me. It's called an "Oil and filter change". You're talking about changing out your own clutch plates, but were going to take it to a dealer for an oil change? What did you think they were going to do?

10W40 describes a viscosity selection, not what oil was used. If you don't know... Don't ever let whomever changed the oil do it again on your bike w/o finding out exactly what they are using.

Well, the bike is going to need more than oil and filters, hence why I said I was going to take it to the dealer above in my post...

I was going to put the bike into my local shop for the 20k service, as itll likely need some other bits doing and I don't really have the space where I live to do it

The oil was Yamalube 10/40 as I also stated above.

I'm a fairly competent mechanic (granted I learned most of it on cars at my dad's shop - but engines are engines) and can do most work myself under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, as I also mentioned I don't have the space where I currently live (in a city, in an apartment) to do work on my bike. I normally use a shared garage/workshop to work on stuff but since covid those are closed and the bike isn't going to wait for them to reopen so I have to take it to a dealer.

Maybe try to be - or come across as being - less condescending to people without having the full information to hand and laughing at people, maybe you'll get better responses. Also, the whole post to take a stab at me isn't really very relevant to the question/topic at hand so didn't really serve much purpose other than you coming across as a bit of a d*ck. I take your point about TCS off road - as I also mentioned above. Good lesson learnt and I won't make the same mistakes again.

 

[EricV]

Maybe try not spinning the engine at 7k rpm in 1st when you know you have a clutch problem. My mistake, but the first time I read that I didn't see Yamalube, only 10/40.

Now, what do you think is getting done besides an oil and filter change at 20k kms? Barring them doing the clutch investigation. I'm sorry you don't have a better space to work on the bike right now. It's an oil change. I've done that in parking lots during trips. The clutch work doesn't even require dropping the oil, (other than you need to do it anyway). Nothing is going to spill out when you remove the clutch cover. Usually, you can re-use the gasket if you take care not to damage it when you remove the cover. The nut has a staked lock washer and you will either need a clutch tool, or an impact wrench to break the nut loose. The rest is quite strait forward, though I would suggest you have a factory shop manual available for reference if you're going to do any work on the bike.

Remember, I'm not the one coming here with a problem I created. You don't have to take it to a dealer. Relax a little and see the humor from my perspective. "20k service" makes it sound like some major undertaking. It's just a minor set of tasks that you can do yourself at the curb if necessary. Same with the clutch work.

 

[thompn]

I'm fully aware of what happens at the various service intervals on the bike, I'm not worries about doing that stuff. I've done full strip downs and engine rebuilds, built project bikes, for friends in the past etc.

At the next service I'd like to actually do a bit of investigation on the internals to see how things look, as the bike is a '15 model but I bought it in '20 with only c. 8,000 km on the clock. If the bike's been stood for so long I'd actually like to see how some parts are holding up after 9 months of regular use and possibly replace them if needed. It also needs some new boots. There's also a recall for a new switch sensor to do with the cruise control/rear brake light which they will be taking care of.

That's what I would be doing if I had the space to do it, more out of curiosity & caution than necessity. In this case, since I don't have access to a workshop at the moment - the dealer will have to do it. Plus, it's nice to get the interval stamps in the book since its already got full dealer history and people in this country really seem value that when buying used.

I know I don't have to take a bike to the dealer, I know how to drop and swap fluids and make a point of understanding the requirements of maintaining any vehicle I own so I can do it myself. I was taught how to do this stuff growing up and enjoy a bit of spannering, sadly I just don't have the space to do work and I'm not allowed to do it at the roadside either since I live in the centre of a city and it's illegal/fine-able.

I can usually do non messy work where I park the bike, but as for dropping fluids and stuff, I can't. I noted you can do the clutch without spilling the oil, which is nice and means I can take the cover off and have a look inside to see what the problem is before I make my next move - I'd hate to have a mechanic tell me it's an issue with the clutch hydraulics and not the clutch pack when I could have checked that for myself relatively easily. Since it needs the other work, I'll take it into Yamaha and they can sort it for me in one sitting.

Remember, I'm not the one coming here with a problem I created

This is a support and discussion forum for bikes is it not? I asked a question and got some solid pointers from some other people (yourself included) on what caused it, what could possibly be broken and the best recourse for resolving it. No need for the snarky comments on what people should and shouldn't know. I'm lucky I know how to do it myself, but not all motorcycle owners are like that and some of them will just go to a shop for any issue - that's also totally fine...

 

[EricV]

You took offense at being laughed at for what you wrote. In person, that would have still happened, (me laughing at what you said). I wish you the best of luck in sorting out your issues and getting back to riding your Super Tenere. Aside from the clutch issue, the bikes is practically new at 20k. I say that from the perspective of having put 240k kms on Super Teneres.

 

[thompn]

Im still not entirely sure why me referring to a 20k service interval is so deserving of mockery, maybe I must have missed something there.

the bikes is practically new at 20k

Yeah this is my thought, I've seen people on here that have put many many miles on this bike and that's why I bought it. Honestly, I've not had any issues at all with it aside a dud battery just after I bought it but I should have just replaced that when I bought it since it hadn't hardly been ridden when I picked it up. It still got me home from the Ukrainian border without issues after I jump started it in some Polish forest one particularly cold morning.

 

[Boris]

Thompn, if you do take the clutch cover off, there’s two dowels. They should stay in situ, just be careful if you have to rock the cover to get it off. It’s been a long time since I did my Gen1 basket and I can’t quite recall where they are other than one top, one bottom. You don’t want one of them dropping down into the sump.

Also, I’m pretty sure that the big nut does not need removing if only changing the plates, therefore no clutch holding tool required.

good luck

 

[ballisticexchris]

Pull the cover and take a look FIRST !

Yes this. I also recommend doing a full service and check of the machine since you purchased it used. Do not take advice of anyone as to how reliable these bikes are and skip the periodic maintenance. While it's a very reliable machine, it is mechanical.....

 

[WJBertrand]

Following this thread and not sure I understand how the TC or its settings affect clutch wear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ballisticexchris]

Ive seen this happen before in Colorado and in Mexico. Both of these guys are similar to your story. Both these guys had melted parts.
I can only speak about my experience with helping them. They both road off road with TC turn (ON) and the bike constantly fighting TC while off road.

Following this thread and not sure I understand how the TC or its settings affect clutch wear?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I am under the assumption that the gentlemen Jaxon was talking about were "fighting" the TC by overuse of the clutch. I made this same mistake when I got into some deep sand before I realized I had the TC activated in the most intrusive position.