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ballisticexchris
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And me as well!!I want him to have a fantastic ownership experience too..
Rethinking preconceived notions...BMW F 750 GS
- Thread starter Dirt_Dad
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EricV
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Your comments don't really lend themselves to that statement. I did not assume you bought them new, or anything else, other than you haven't owned a BMW long enough to understand the costs involved. I did make the statement that IF you haven't owned a BMW out of warranty, you haven't completed the BMW experience.Why would you assume all 4 BMW's I bought were new??
Bliss? I have a BMW in the garage. There will be no bliss, only the normal wondering when I should preemptively replace wheel bearings, wondering if the replacement ABS pump will last longer than the original one, (42k), wondering if the poorly designed wethead will burn up or if the chronic water pump failures so many models suffer from will plague this bike, etc. We have an unlimited mileage aftermarket warranty. So far it's more than paid for the high initial cost. That doesn't help much when it's in the shop and you want to go for a ride.
Dirt_Dad
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It's been a year now since the bike was added to the garage. Today my wife capped off a multi-day trip with a 297 mile back road ride across West Virginia to home. Sitting down talking about the ride, I heard her say something that I've heard a lot over the year..."that really is the perfect bike for me." In fact, I think I've heard it almost every time she gets off the the bike. The other common refrains are, "that would have been so much harder on my Tenere", and "I wouldn't have even considered doing that on my Tenere."
She loved her Tenere, she likes this one even more. She has not come close to dropping the bike. That's a record, although to be fair, all her other bikes have been way too big for her. Dropping was inevitable. I know we all do it, but she's not going to be happy when it finally happens.
I asked her what the Tenere did better...I got a blank stare back. After more thinking she thought the Tenere may have been better on her knees. She finds after 5 or 6 hours of riding her knees do get pretty sore on the BMW. Of course, she'll readily admit that she's bad about allowing me to stop and give her knees a break. I still need to come up with a highway peg setup that would allow her to take a different position on those long rides.
Not sure the exact total, but the mileage has been kept artificially low due to COVID, so it has just under 9K on it so far.
She is fed up with the BMW branded Scott Oiler. After much fiddling and adjusting, the thing just makes a mess that she is no longer willing to tolerate. I've been told to remove it. So my KTM may be getting a Scott Oiler. At the wise advice from TwoDogs, I've long since stopped bitching about her chain..where she can hear me.
From my perspective, the bike is setup for her height, so it really doesn't fit me. That still doesn't stop me from thinking, 'damn, this is a fantastic bike' every time I roll the first 150 feet on the thing. It is an impressive machine.
Mechanically, my biggest gripe, besides the chain, is changing the OEM tires. Those Bridgestone Battleax Adventure A41 tires were absolutely ideal for the type of riding she has done in the last year. There was do doubt for the expected riding in the foreseeable future, I was putting on another set of those for her. Never in my tire changing career have I worked harder and struggled more to change both a front and back tire. I've done K60s, I've done E07 Dakars, I've done all the "hard" tires to change. These A41s were the most miserable tires on which to break a bead, and even removing from the rim was the most PITA experience I've ever had...by a mile. I will not put myself through that experience again. The dealer will be changing the tires on this bike. I ain't doing it.
The oil change is a bit bizarre. You have to know about the secret reservoir immediately above main drain plug (inside the case) to fully drain this bike. Miss it, and you're leaving a quart of old oil in the bike. I say secret, because the owners manual tells you to take the bike to the dealer if the oil level needs to be changed. They sure aren't going to tell you about the hidden reservoir. They don't even tell you how much oil the bike holds. That's definitely a negative in my opinion.
Overall, I will say this bike is a grand slam winner for my wife. I have to give BMW credit. It's been a really great bike.
She loved her Tenere, she likes this one even more. She has not come close to dropping the bike. That's a record, although to be fair, all her other bikes have been way too big for her. Dropping was inevitable. I know we all do it, but she's not going to be happy when it finally happens.
I asked her what the Tenere did better...I got a blank stare back. After more thinking she thought the Tenere may have been better on her knees. She finds after 5 or 6 hours of riding her knees do get pretty sore on the BMW. Of course, she'll readily admit that she's bad about allowing me to stop and give her knees a break. I still need to come up with a highway peg setup that would allow her to take a different position on those long rides.
Not sure the exact total, but the mileage has been kept artificially low due to COVID, so it has just under 9K on it so far.
She is fed up with the BMW branded Scott Oiler. After much fiddling and adjusting, the thing just makes a mess that she is no longer willing to tolerate. I've been told to remove it. So my KTM may be getting a Scott Oiler. At the wise advice from TwoDogs, I've long since stopped bitching about her chain..where she can hear me.
From my perspective, the bike is setup for her height, so it really doesn't fit me. That still doesn't stop me from thinking, 'damn, this is a fantastic bike' every time I roll the first 150 feet on the thing. It is an impressive machine.
Mechanically, my biggest gripe, besides the chain, is changing the OEM tires. Those Bridgestone Battleax Adventure A41 tires were absolutely ideal for the type of riding she has done in the last year. There was do doubt for the expected riding in the foreseeable future, I was putting on another set of those for her. Never in my tire changing career have I worked harder and struggled more to change both a front and back tire. I've done K60s, I've done E07 Dakars, I've done all the "hard" tires to change. These A41s were the most miserable tires on which to break a bead, and even removing from the rim was the most PITA experience I've ever had...by a mile. I will not put myself through that experience again. The dealer will be changing the tires on this bike. I ain't doing it.
The oil change is a bit bizarre. You have to know about the secret reservoir immediately above main drain plug (inside the case) to fully drain this bike. Miss it, and you're leaving a quart of old oil in the bike. I say secret, because the owners manual tells you to take the bike to the dealer if the oil level needs to be changed. They sure aren't going to tell you about the hidden reservoir. They don't even tell you how much oil the bike holds. That's definitely a negative in my opinion.
Overall, I will say this bike is a grand slam winner for my wife. I have to give BMW credit. It's been a really great bike.
Whaaaat?
Dirt_Dad
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Yep, it was a real mess on the first oil change. I asked the dealer to give me everything for an oil change. Left there with 4 qts of oil. I had no idea how much it would take, but since I had 4 qts, I was pretty sure it would take at least 2.5 before I had to start being careful and measuring. Nope, started the 3rd qt and immediately had oil pouring out of the fill hole. Didn't know about the secret reservoir at that point.
Dirt_Dad
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If they don't show the secondary drain plug, then yes, they are not doing a complete job. I once saw a reference to it being optional, but does leaving 1/3 of the old oil in the bike seem optional?
This guy does a good job talking about it at minute 5:27.
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ballisticexchris
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That is really odd!! Strange engineering for sure. I'm happy your wife likes the bike. I think I would like it. Looks like a really nice machine!!
According to BMW the 750/850 engines are made by Loncin in China and almost everything else that they make is less than 200cc. According to the Loncin wiki, BMW dropped Rotax in 2017 when they introduced the model and Loncin uses the same engines for two of their own bikes. Since partnerships like this typically have input from each company, especially if each is selling versions of the same thing, I wonder how much design input each company had or if scaling up some other design (maybe back to the Aprilia 650?) had something to do with it?
www.bmwgroup-werke.com
en.wikipedia.org
Whatever - As long as it works and D_M likes it.
International Production
Loncin Holdings - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Whatever - As long as it works and D_M likes it.
Dirt_Dad
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It works wonderfully so far, and DM is very please with it. She is much more willing to go for a short (day) ride now that she ever was with the Tenere.
The bike has a wow factor on the showroom floor. One year later I have to say that really hasn't diminished at all.
Yesterday I spent some time combing through the differences between the F850GS and the F850GSA. I still really hate the idea of a chain for myself, but the 850 is definitely got my attention.
EricV
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I heard from my wife a lot that her F650GS2 "just fit her" as well, though she rides the bigger R1200GSa far better than she ever rode the little F650GS2. It's a romance until it's a divorce. I hope you get a long romance.
On the oiler, take a look at the Nemo chain oiler. Not automatic, so she's in control of when to lube, but a lot less messy too. LINK Continuous oiling is hype, imho.
On the oiler, take a look at the Nemo chain oiler. Not automatic, so she's in control of when to lube, but a lot less messy too. LINK Continuous oiling is hype, imho.
Dirt_Dad
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In keeping with the theme of this thread "rethinking preconceived notions" ...
Decided to take a test ride on at F 850 GS today. The dealer guy asked me before I took off, 'is there anything else you want to ride while you're here?' I thought for a moment and nothing came to mind. He asked what about the 1250 GS? Oh, sure, I've never ridden the big BMW, why not. I'll give that a spin while I'm here.
Within the first 1/4 mile of the F 850 GS, I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt, it was not the bike for me. Felt terrible, unbalanced, unpleasant...just did not mesh with it in any way. I cut the ride short, no reason to prolong the experience. I thought it would be just a faster, taller version of the wife's 750. It was not. Did not like it at all. Told the dealer guy that it's just not right for me. Don't know why, but not to my taste.
Jumped on the big 1250, which did not feel as big as my Tenere, and definitely felt lighter than the Tenere. First 1/4 mile...damn, this is pretty nice. Switch from the mandated "rain" mode, to "dynamic" mode. Thing is trying to lift the front wheel on the gear shifts...encouraging. Damn, this rides nice, and feels really comfy. Ride for a bit, then head to the highway portion of the route. Traffic did not want to let me in, so I hammered it...damn, this thing really scoots...and is amazingly cushy and stable. Damn, this thing rides nice.
Pull into the dealer, take off my helmet and dealer guy is there. I just nodded my head and said, 'oh, I get it.' He smiled and said after the 850 he was really curious what I would think. I said, 'I understand now.' What a sweet bike.
On to KTM to test sit on a KTM 1290 Adventure R. Maybe... then to Triumph for a sit on the Tiger 900. Very interesting. Will be going back to test ride that one soon. Very nice. I think it was the exact same one that CW sat on in his photo of the 900. Has potential.
I'm shocked at my reaction to the 1250. It's the reaction I had anticipated for the 850, but definitely didn't get. Don't think I'm willing to drop that much money for the 1250, but my god...that's a nice bike.
Decided to take a test ride on at F 850 GS today. The dealer guy asked me before I took off, 'is there anything else you want to ride while you're here?' I thought for a moment and nothing came to mind. He asked what about the 1250 GS? Oh, sure, I've never ridden the big BMW, why not. I'll give that a spin while I'm here.
Within the first 1/4 mile of the F 850 GS, I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt, it was not the bike for me. Felt terrible, unbalanced, unpleasant...just did not mesh with it in any way. I cut the ride short, no reason to prolong the experience. I thought it would be just a faster, taller version of the wife's 750. It was not. Did not like it at all. Told the dealer guy that it's just not right for me. Don't know why, but not to my taste.
Jumped on the big 1250, which did not feel as big as my Tenere, and definitely felt lighter than the Tenere. First 1/4 mile...damn, this is pretty nice. Switch from the mandated "rain" mode, to "dynamic" mode. Thing is trying to lift the front wheel on the gear shifts...encouraging. Damn, this rides nice, and feels really comfy. Ride for a bit, then head to the highway portion of the route. Traffic did not want to let me in, so I hammered it...damn, this thing really scoots...and is amazingly cushy and stable. Damn, this thing rides nice.
Pull into the dealer, take off my helmet and dealer guy is there. I just nodded my head and said, 'oh, I get it.' He smiled and said after the 850 he was really curious what I would think. I said, 'I understand now.' What a sweet bike.
On to KTM to test sit on a KTM 1290 Adventure R. Maybe... then to Triumph for a sit on the Tiger 900. Very interesting. Will be going back to test ride that one soon. Very nice. I think it was the exact same one that CW sat on in his photo of the 900. Has potential.
I'm shocked at my reaction to the 1250. It's the reaction I had anticipated for the 850, but definitely didn't get. Don't think I'm willing to drop that much money for the 1250, but my god...that's a nice bike.
JJTJ2
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I used the Pro-Oiler on my Honda NC700DCT. It uses GPS to monitor speed and then adjusts the amount of oil needed So when you are stopped, it knows that you are stopped and doesn't send any more oil to the chain.
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ballisticexchris
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Dirt Dad, I would recommend just keeping a travel size bottle of bicycle dry lube when you travel. With the quality of chains these days it's not going to be a big deal to lube just once at the end of your day. I did 500+ miles a day on my Ninja and never had an issue with the chain by lubing once a day. In almost 35,000 miles I replaced the chain/sprocket set twice.
The auto oilers are a big hassle as you have found out. I have more than once found broken chunks of Scott Oilers on well traveled dirt roads.
I call the KTM 1090/1190/1290 the "trophy trucks" of motorcycles. They run really hot and scorch your legs on long rides. And very very high maintenance. The suspension can get you in trouble really quick if you are not of the ability. I was at a desert rally cooking along through some rollers on my Beta doing around 50mph. All of the sudden I had a young kid pass me at close to 100mph jumping the rollers like whoops. The KTM's are amazing but still carry the weight of a large machine. Rottweiler performance has some products that will help manage the heat coming off the motor.
The auto oilers are a big hassle as you have found out. I have more than once found broken chunks of Scott Oilers on well traveled dirt roads.
I call the KTM 1090/1190/1290 the "trophy trucks" of motorcycles. They run really hot and scorch your legs on long rides. And very very high maintenance. The suspension can get you in trouble really quick if you are not of the ability. I was at a desert rally cooking along through some rollers on my Beta doing around 50mph. All of the sudden I had a young kid pass me at close to 100mph jumping the rollers like whoops. The KTM's are amazing but still carry the weight of a large machine. Rottweiler performance has some products that will help manage the heat coming off the motor.
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VRODE
Easy Does It
Hmmmm...I'm surprised the 850 felt so different from the 750. Nice that you got to test ride it though. I am not surprised you were initially impressed with the 1250GS. Can't speak for long term ownership, but lots of new owners are happy from what I gather.
Dirt_Dad
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I was downright amazed at how much I disliked the 850. Dirt_Mom does not like to test ride bikes and relies on me to check out everything for her. If the 750 had felt like the 850 I would never have considered it for her. The dealer thought it might be the different suspension between the standard 850 and my wife's lowered 750. I find it hard to believe it would have made that much of a difference. Whatever it was, that 850 felt like one of the most unnatural feeling bikes I've ever experienced. About what you'd feel if you were trying to balance a 25 gallon fish tank on you lap while riding.
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ballisticexchris
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The Ducati Enduro felt like that to me. Ergos are one thing but odd, unnatural feeling is not good at all. Did the 850 have a top box mounted? The Ducati did and I was wondering if it had something to do with the strange handling.
Dirt_Dad
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No top box. Just standard off the sales floor.
VRODE
Easy Does It
Was it the 850 GSA? It has a 6.1 gal tank which would contribute to the top heavy feel ( regular GS has a 4 gal tank I think)
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They didn't have a GSA available to ride, but I did sit on one. Thing felt much bigger than the Tenere. Crazy how 2 gallons of gas make the size of that bike explode.