Recently started stuttering at low RPMs, loss of power in high gears over 4k RPM

[WookinPaNub]

Hi All,
I've been reading through the threads, there are a few threads that seem potentially relevant (like this one) but I cannot tell for certain. So I thought I would describe the issue and see if anyone can point me in the right direction please.

Bike:

• 2013 Super Tenere (sole owner)
• 58k miles
• Limited engine work done (never adjusted the valves, performed a TBS, etc), I have replaced plugs, air filter, various needed fluids, etc when needed).

Background:
I don't see how these are related given the symptoms, but this seemingly started around the time that 1) power washed the bike (which I've done before) 2) adjusted the throttle position lock (as it was moving and randomly locking which is no bueno on the highway). In regards to the power washing I toyed with I somehow shot water into the air intake (but seems low probability) or into the muffler (but no water is shot out when twisting the throttle). As for the throttle lock adjustment, I would have expected it to just maintain a high idle / throttle position if I screwed that up somehow).

Symptoms:

• (Consistently frequent) Idle feels like it's 'chugging' or 'puffing' at a 1k idle. Less frequently I sounds like it's doing a soft backfire
• (Consistently frequent) When taking off from a standstill, 1k - 2.5k feels sluggish / unresponsive and I need to over rev to prevent stalling or significant stuttering. Once over 2.5k the power is back and the bike sounds / responds as normal
• (Intermittently frequent) In 6th gear at 4k RPM I can do a full twist on the throttle and there is a minimal response from the engine. Normally there is some semblance of the engine 'pulling', but no longer and it accelerates quite slowly at that point. I've also noticed this to a lesser degree in 5th gear.
• (Intermittently frequent) When decelerating in the lower gears, after the bike is completely warmed up, it feels like the idle sits 'high', like when the engine is cold. And then it intermittently resets to a normal idle from that point on.

What I've done:

• Visual inspections of the throttle lock area
• Put in a couple tanks of high grade gas
• Put in a couple treatments of fuel injection cleaner
• Swore a lot

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Paul466]

I would definitely check valve clearances first

 

[SkunkWorks]

Do you happen to know if the Wire-Harness Recall has ever been performed?
I believe that recall addressed some of the issues you are experiencing?

Also could be related to water possibly interfering with Ignition-coil operation. (Possibly shorting out spark energy?)

And also, as Paul stated...........a Valve-Clearance check is in order!

 

[sandro1973]

Do....Valve clearance / adjustment....TBS....check the coils for corrosion ( if there is rust, most likely won't help neither...repair or replace )....replacing the fuel filter ( aftermarket items do exist ) can help too.

Pretty sure it'll run fine after a bit of mechanical TLC.

 

[nd4spdbh]

I would say valve clearance check / adjust. New Spark plugs and inspection of the coils. At 58k miles, probably pull the fuel pump and replace the pre pump filter (you can get em on ali express), and backflush the final filter while you are there.

 

[Sierra1]

Didn't somebody just recently have this same/similar problem?

 

[Cycledude]

Ride it to Texas and hire Tobasco to fix it.

 

[Sierra1]

Ride it to Texas and hire Tobasco to fix it.

Running like that . . . . might take a while.

 

[Madhatter]

its down hill from Colorado ... should be able to coast most of the way .... never checked the valves in 58k , that might be were I would start.

 

[TenereJourneyMan]

Hi All,
I've been reading through the threads, there are a few threads that seem potentially relevant (like this one) but I cannot tell for certain. So I thought I would describe the issue and see if anyone can point me in the right direction please.

Bike:

• 2013 Super Tenere (sole owner)
• 58k miles
• Limited engine work done (never adjusted the valves, performed a TBS, etc), I have replaced plugs, air filter, various needed fluids, etc when needed).

Background:
I don't see how these are related given the symptoms, but this seemingly started around the time that 1) power washed the bike (which I've done before) 2) adjusted the throttle position lock (as it was moving and randomly locking which is no bueno on the highway). In regards to the power washing I toyed with I somehow shot water into the air intake (but seems low probability) or into the muffler (but no water is shot out when twisting the throttle). As for the throttle lock adjustment, I would have expected it to just maintain a high idle / throttle position if I screwed that up somehow).

Symptoms:

• (Consistently frequent) Idle feels like it's 'chugging' or 'puffing' at a 1k idle. Less frequently I sounds like it's doing a soft backfire
• (Consistently frequent) When taking off from a standstill, 1k - 2.5k feels sluggish / unresponsive and I need to over rev to prevent stalling or significant stuttering. Once over 2.5k the power is back and the bike sounds / responds as normal
• (Intermittently frequent) In 6th gear at 4k RPM I can do a full twist on the throttle and there is a minimal response from the engine. Normally there is some semblance of the engine 'pulling', but no longer and it accelerates quite slowly at that point. I've also noticed this to a lesser degree in 5th gear.
• (Intermittently frequent) When decelerating in the lower gears, after the bike is completely warmed up, it feels like the idle sits 'high', like when the engine is cold. And then it intermittently resets to a normal idle from that point on.

What I've done:

• Visual inspections of the throttle lock area
• Put in a couple tanks of high grade gas
• Put in a couple treatments of fuel injection cleaner
• Swore a lot

Any thoughts appreciated.

Hello,

Do you know if the prior owner changed out the cam chain tensioner? If the chain jumped a tooth, you might have all of the symptoms which you describe. You might look through the old records and see if that work was done. It’s a critical component on a motorcycle of that era.

 

[RIVA]

My first port of call would be the ignition coils. . Water from the pressure washer may be causing a miss.

 

[WookinPaNub]

Sorry, I never got the email notifications of the responses, thanks to everyone for their thoughts - greatly appreciated. The general consensus sounds to be around the valves, and checking the ignition coils and then some other areas to check into in addition. I need to do some forum searches specific to those items to determine the next steps, and will do that shortly after the weekend. Again, thanks for the ideas!!

 

[WookinPaNub]

Do you happen to know if the Wire-Harness Recall has ever been performed?
I believe that recall addressed some of the issues you are experiencing?

Also could be related to water possibly interfering with Ignition-coil operation. (Possibly shorting out spark energy?)

And also, as Paul stated...........a Valve-Clearance check is in order!

Ugh, my memory on that sucks but I seem to think I did.... I can call the bike shop I normally go to - is there a way for me to determine that somehow through observation?

 

[WookinPaNub]

Hello,

Do you know if the prior owner changed out the cam chain tensioner? If the chain jumped a tooth, you might have all of the symptoms which you describe. You might look through the old records and see if that work was done. It’s a critical component on a motorcycle of that era.

As the original owner I know I have not, but I'll add that to the list to read more about to get a bit more educated.

 

[lund]

Word of advice, never power wash your bike.
In the shop here we see about 15% of issues with motorcycles, ATV's, UTV's are related to power washer caused. Customer claims it was great till he washed it with the power washer.
It is one of the quickest ways to cause your self a lot of grieve.
We recommend using nothing more then a garden hose to wash your bike.
I have seen everything from disconnected wires, shorted ignition to blown seals at wheel bearings and steering head caused by power washers including damaged radiators.
But people do what people do.

 

[RCinNC]

I don't know if I'd go with this problem being caused by valve issues if it only appeared after you pressure washed your bike. This sounds like a sudden onset problem, and the only way I'd think that valves would be a sudden onset problem is if something in the valvetrain actually broke. If that was the case, I think the problems you're experiencing would be way worse.

You could have easily damaged an electrical connection with high pressure water, or a sensor, or damaged a vacuum line somewhere. The problem with that is that those sorts of issues can be really tough to detect. I don't know if the 2013 model has a diagnostic mode like the 2014 and up; if it does I think I'd be looking for some error codes that would give some guidance as to where the problem actually lay. If not, this might be one of those times where a trip to a shop that has the equipment to hook up to the bike and read the computer would be worth the money. If you caused a short somewhere with the high pressure water, it could take ages to track that down without being able to at least find out what system is causing the problem.

 

[~TABASCO~]

I suggest some basic maintenance............

-I suspect that most of this will be taken care of with a proper valve adjustment (NOT just if they might be in Spec... NO, set them all in the middle of the range...... No BS, no excuses, no lazy, set them in the middle) (for the shop or anyone doing the work)

-At this time someone will need to check and then also are install the cams...
-New plugs / filter

-While in there someone will need to take off many connectors. While doing so clean the water, mud, dust, crap out of each and make sure they are all "snapped" back into each proper receptacle.

Someone recently had an issue with an engine I helped them with. It ended up being dirt and water in the plug. Once cleaned, everything was 100%.

** I might also suggest a fuel cleaner like a product called Sea-Foam or = product. This bikes tends to carbon the valves unless you ride it hard often. Adding this product often with really help keep crap off the intake, and carbon off the exhaust valves.... I suggest this product for all Tenere owners.

Some basic maintenance will probably fix all your issues and make your bike feel as good as a brand new bike... It's surprisingly different with a proper valve check.

Maybe someone knows how to find, and re-publish my list of things to check and "maintain"............................

 

[WookinPaNub]

Do you happen to know if the Wire-Harness Recall has ever been performed?
I believe that recall addressed some of the issues you are experiencing?

Also could be related to water possibly interfering with Ignition-coil operation. (Possibly shorting out spark energy?)

And also, as Paul stated...........a Valve-Clearance check is in order!

Warning Harness Recall was completed, confirmed with the dealer

 

[WookinPaNub]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I've finally had a chance to read and research as much as I can wrap my brain around and came up with the below (questions at the bottom):

Planned Next Steps:

1. Seafoam treatment for the carbs
2. Valve Check / Adjustment
   1. While I'm in there:
      1. Replace Spark Plugs
      2. Replace Air Filter
      3. Battery Replacement (it's due)

Optional Next Steps if the above doesn't address the issue:

• Dealer Diagnostic
• Throttle Body Synch?

Valve Adjustment How Tos:

• Service Manual: Section 3.5 on my manual
• Video: Toms Tinkering and Adventure
  • Simplistic, minor valve adjustment
  • Removes Clutch Cover
• Video: Freedom Machine
  • Greater detail, more of a teardown for easier accesses for valve cover removal
  • Does *not* remove the entire Clutch Cover (access port only)
  • Does remove the Camshafts
  • Does adjustments for all valves
• Post: MGB - Lessons Learned

Addtl Tools I'll need:

• Small spec torque wrench
• Thickness gauge (.01 thicknesses)

Parts:

• High temp silicone gasket maker
• (Possibly) Camshaft cover gasket (if clutch cover is pulled)
• (Possibly) Replacement chain tensioner
• Blue loctite
• Valve shims

Questions:

1. From reading, if both the chain / sprockets are marked / ziptied and the cam covers are pulled on the exhaust cam and all covers on the intake are removed (and the remaining cover near the sprocket is simply loosened) then it's possible to remove any valve covers to adjust shims without having to remove the camshafts, CCT, clutch cover). Does that sound correct?
2. Some people have replaced their Gen 1 (which a 2013 is if memory serves) with a 2014 version, is that a worthwhile upgrade while I'm in there or if I don't have to remove the CCT to the above do I care?
3. Hate to buy a full shim kit beforehand, but also don't want to have the bike down for an extended period of time in summer. I see people talk about Hot Cams or Pro X kits, is there a better option out there now to pre-purchase shim kits but without a ton of unusable shims left over? And ones with smaller tolerances of .25 vs the standard .5 sizings?
4. Any other beneficial proactive maintenance while I'm in there?
5. Would a Throttle Body Synch actually do anything for these symptoms?

 

[Tenman]

There is 2 wiring recalls.