Premium fuel,mid grade or regular?

RCinNC

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Here's where I wonder about all that, Oldrider. If ethanol is the culprit, then shouldn't every engine on the road be suffering from these issues, and not just motorcycle engines? And not just select motorcycle engines, but almost all bikes (excluding any that have never used ethanol)? If it was as harmful a substance to modern engines as is said, and it could be proven by unbiased studies, I would have expected some enterprising attorney to have filed a class action lawsuit against the ethanol manufacturers on behalf of every car/motorcycle/truck owner who has had their engine damaged by ethanol use. It would be the classic product liability lawsuit; selling a product that's inherently harmful for the purpose that it's being sold. Based on the number of potential litigants in the class in the US alone, that lawsuit would be 10 times bigger than the ones filed against tobacco manufacturers. It's hard to fathom that some enterprising attorney has missed a product liability opportunity like this; surely there are at least a few of them out there who ride bikes and know something about engines? And wouldn't you expect there to be an ethanol producer's version of whistleblower Jeffrey Wigand by this point? An insider from the ethanol industry who testifies that ethanol, as it's designed, is dangerous to your engine? Or maybe a disgruntled engineer from Yamaha, Suzuki, etc who "blows the lid off" the idea they they've been producing engines that they know are being damaged by the fuel that's commonly used to power them?

I'm certainly willing to believe that ethanol could pose more substantial risks to vehicles built during the last century, since they would have been designed without the use of ethanol in mind, and used components that would probably be far more susceptible to damage from the corrosive properties of ethanol. But designers have been building engines now for about 20 years (at least) with the idea that ethanol is in widespread use; wouldn't they have replaced components that might have been prone to damage with newer versions that weren't?

Is there a scientifically conducted study out there (like by a group of actual petroleum engineers, or engine designers) that establishes that ethanol is inherently damaging to a modern engine? I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious. There is a Society for Petroleum Engineers, a not for profit group that it seems like this question would be right up their alley.
 

Mak10

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Here is my seat of the pants experience. I have a Truck that gets 11-16 mpg. It has a 10.2-1 compression ratio. It runs well on the lowest octane gas.

I have a 69 jeep that I had to go in and rebuild the carburetor because the newer gas destroyed the rubber bits inside. It had a leather accelerator pump. Put new “upgraded ethanol” parts in and not a problem in years.

I have a snowmobile with a switched map for running just premium fuel. I only run premium fuel.
I was lazy once and bought premium fuel from the local town store once and the two sleds that we filled up there ran like crap. It was supposedly ethanol free. Most likely stale.

I don’t mind spending the money if it is needed. If it’s not needed I’m just throwing my money away. If I only ran premium in my Truck I am throwing $500 a year away.

It is important to get gas at a busy place that is turning over it’s stock regular. Fresh fuel is better fuel.

When I was a teenager 11-1 compression was high. Now some of the competition have bikes with 13-1 compression.

From those with real time experience are saying the S10 runs great on regular.
 

Madhatter

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I have used regular , mid , and premium . I run premium unless it is not available , then its the next best grade . better safe than sorry , regular probably works fine , but I drank the owners manual cool-aid….
 

~TABASCO~

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I typically run mid grade. I’ve used them all, traveling across the country.

I’m going into the danger zone, LOL
IMOP, I think they added the “Only use 93” in the US, is because of US emissions standards. In my opinion it probably has nothing to do with knocking / performance on this particular motorcycle.

I remind myself, would yamaha really develop there top of the line adventure bike to be ridden all over the world and it must use 91/93. Really?
What would riders do out in the back woods, Mexico, South America, etc, etc???
“Well I guess we have to park it until we find high-test”. Lol

I have several Tenere friends that have run 86/87 for the last 75K++ miles. No issues, no problem.

So when I pull up to the pump I just go for the middle if it’s avaiable, otherwise I just fill the bike up with what they have. We ride way out in the sticks, many times we don’t have much of a choice.

I don’t really tell much Perfomance difference across the grades.

The next test, I need to find some 108/113 VP fuel and run a few gallons. Turn the exhaust all white and pop some wheelies and do a few high speed dirt runs. Gosh, that smells so good ! LOL
‘If you know- you know’ lol
 
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Sierra1

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Don't know if they still do, but, back in the day, the MOPAR owner's manual recommended 91/93 octane for the hemi engine. The owner's manual also advised that it was permissible to use 87 octane, but there would be a decrease in performance. Who knows how much of a decrease, or at what rpm range. I "ass ume" the Tenere motor has similar tendencies. I haven't felt a difference between the octanes either.
 

bigbob

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In rural areas 91 or even 89 octane often isn't available- There's only a pump or two and your chocies are 87 octane or diesel.
And I had a very tired friend who filled his 113 CI Stratoliner with the expensive stuff. The one with the green pump handle.

Needless to say did not go well!
 

Tenman

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I've been around farm equipment and bikes my whole life (62) and have seen carbs totally plug with good ole dino gas. Gas lines rotted of every dirt bike. Tank rust was common. I've got chain saws that run fine on corn gas
 

OldRider

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Yes it's no secret that if you leave plain old gas in something long enough everything in the fuel system goes to hell. It's also no secret that ethanol makes all this happen faster, takes away horsepower, goes stale faster, absorbs water out of thin air and serves no purpose at all except making farmers money. If you're going to defend ethanol please say why we need it. What good does it do? Why do I want gas that absorbs water and goes stale faster?
 

Sierra1

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As far as I can tell, the main reason for ethanol was that it burns cleaner; less pollutants. But like most things....you can't have your cake and eat it too. I saw a thing on the news where there's a movement to reduce/eliminate cows because of the amount of methane they produce. Obviously was a vegetarian that came up with THAT proposal.

Oh yeah, I forgot, ethanol is renewable.
 

Madhatter

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and no cars and then you cant get to a job , then no food ,tractors don't pull themselves , it goes on and on..... when Russia was soviet we had to send them food aid so our enemy wouldn't starve, now that their not soviet no more food shipments. funny how work works.
 

rid34fun

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I run premium because Yamaha says too, but more importantly there is no knock sensor to retard the timing by computer. With ear plugs and a helmet, you may not hear the pinging...mid grade does work in cooler weather. Hot weather, it is always premium because it burns slower and won't detonate before it should.
 

Tenman

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And I had a very tired friend who filled his 113 CI Stratoliner with the expensive stuff. The one with the green pump handle.

Needless to say did not go well!
We almost ran out of gas in an 85 t bird in the boondocks. There was a diesel tank out in a bean field that we stole some out of. That tbird did 85 mph smoking 30 miles back to town. Don't think it did anything to it
 

Jeff Milleman

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Running premium as per Yamaha , In this hot climate here in Ft Lauderdale I still hear a detonation noise now and then after running hard , its like a ping when getting back on the throttle . I bet It would go away with Cam 2 racing fuel or blow it up ?? It does run good and get better mileage with REC 90 none of that crap that's in gas .
 

dannyv

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I'm not sure I'd hear ping, I'll spend the little extra for the high octane. Several have commented they can not find higher octane out west- I think what they really mean is, at high altitude. As the air becomes less dense, you don't need your fuel to have the same octane. So they sell accordingly.

As to ethanol- my '07 F650GS runs like crap on ethanol gas. Very noticeable difference. And my (seldom used) chain saw pretty much won't run at all when it sees alcohol! So while filling a can at one of the few non ethanol places we have, I started to fill my truck at the same time. I get 10 to 15 percent better fuel mileage with the non-ethanol gas. Just about what I am paying extra to use it.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-regular-gas-lower-octane-in-higher-elevation-U-S-states
 

Jlq1969

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Running premium as per Yamaha , In this hot climate here in Ft Lauderdale I still hear a detonation noise now and then after running hard , its like a ping when getting back on the throttle . I bet It would go away with Cam 2 racing fuel or blow it up ?? It does run good and get better mileage with REC 90 none of that crap that's in gas .
Sometimes, self-ignition may be caused by an incorrect sparkplug rating. If, for example, the length of the ceramic part that is in contact with the combustion chamber, is less than that of the factory(little colder sparkplug), it would not dissipate the heat well, becoming incandescent and causing a self ignition of the fuel. One issue is quality of electrode(iridium, platinun), other, the thermal degree or heat dissipation
The detonation for incorrect fuel, is permanent, but it is perceived more in conditions of torque needs(few rpm+a lot of fuel)
The detonation by incandescense of spark plug bad temperature raiting, is not permanent, but it given in hard driving(a lot fuel+Many Rpm+a lot of temperature of chamber). This situation is dangerous, because is imperceptible by all noises around
 
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eemsreno

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I live in the very heart of corn country. So I just go with the flow around here. I still ride my 1979 XS1100 "187,000 miles" that has run on 10% ethanol from day 1.
Sometimes it sits for months [in the summer,I mostly ride it in the winter anymore] I have never had a fuel problem running ethanol. My Tenere mostly only runs on 10% with never any problems. All the wife's cars have always run on 10% with no problems. There are times I like to have premium in my Tenere , like under very heavy stress .Like last summer riding to Butte fully loaded we were on I90 running 90 MPH and it would ping some holding the cruise on going up hill, so I put in better fuel.
I have experimented in the Tenere some with non ethanol fuels and some times at best I may have gotten a little better mileage but nothing I could be sure of. I have even traveled across country with other Teneres that only ran premium and I was using 87 10% and I was using less fuel at every fill. After about 40 years of running 10% most all the time in everything, I don't see any problems.
I definitely know the advantage of putting premium in everything that sits a long time [ like lawn mowers through the winter although I don't always get it done but still don't have any problems ]
Now my 2 strokes are a different animal. Premium always for them. "2 Stokes forever!"
 
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OldRider

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I definitely know the advantage of putting premium in everything that sits a long time [ like lawn mowers through the winter although I don't always get it done but still don't have any problems ]
Now my 2 strokes are a different animal. Premium always for them. "2 Stokes forever!"
Can you explain why it is better to put premium in something that sits for a long time?
 
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