PC V Map

[Old Git Ray]

Here is my map. Says (to me at least) that it is +8 in most of what is (or not !) the closed loop area.

But there is also this. It pops up when I plug the USB lead into the O2 optimiser.

As you can see, I have no idea what is going on.

BTW, how do you display the AFR table ??

 

[roll_it_on]

The stock ECU utilizes the o2 sensors to find the "right" mixture in the closed loop range of throttle settings as is is programmed from the factory. That is where the o2 optimizer comes into play with the stock ECU. It allows for the richening up of the factory closed loop operation to something more reasonable like an AFR of 13.6 vs 14.5 or leaner. The reflash reprograms the ECU/fuel tables and eliminates the factory o2 sensors. It now operates off of fuel tables designed into the reflash programing. The reflashed ECU however runs lean (at least on my bike) and that is where the PC comes in. The fuel map loaded into the power commander is what will effect the fuel use at all times based on what change is made to the corresponding rpm/throttle position cell. I would guess that your dyno guy just set the optimizer to the 13.6 setting to provide richer light throttle cruising as that is what is done for stock ECU's. It won't do anything on your ECU flashed bike as it recieves no feedback from o2 sensors.

 

[Karson]

Can you also post your AFR table?

 

[Old Git Ray]

Can you also post your AFR table?

Unfortunately not. I do not know how to display it. All I can see is the adjustment table.

Any ideas ???

 

[jajpko]

Unfortunately not. I do not know how to display it. All I can see is the adjustment table.

Any ideas ???

This has been awhile.. With the PCV plugged into the computer, click on the PCV icon and the program will open. Now look in the lower left for "get map". When the map comes up, look in the top left and you should see fuel table, and others. Click on each one, and the AFR will be one of them. Start the bike up and on the right side you should see RPM, AFR % of throttle.
I think that's about right, give it a try, can't hurt anything.

Oh, save your current map before you do any changes. Name it something you will remember and save.

 

[Karson]

Yep, Japako described one way. However, if you've got your map saved to your PC, you can display all the maps info without connecting it all up. Here's how I do it, FWIW...

 

[Old Git Ray]

Thanks Guys, sorted it. I assume the zeroed spaces are set to 13.6 by default.

 

[Old Git Ray]

Well, here we go.

I sent an e-mail to my tuning guy, Simon @race engineering in the UK, explaining the fact that the closed loop had been removed (as per their web site) and he states that the UK spec bikes have a different ECU (as we already know) and at this time they have not figured a way of turning the O2 sensors off. This is interesting, as they developed their flash with data from Italy.

Oddly enough, ECU Unleashed e-mailed Simon last week to ask him how he was getting on with designing a module similar to the O2 optimiser, to allow the O2 sensors to be tricked to some degree (on UK bikes). He is sending them an e-mail regarding their misleading web site !!

We did have a very confusing conversation on ADV last month on the subject of this new module and this does explain that somewhat.

So, the upshot of all this is that I am pretty well on my own here. Ho hum.

 

[Karson]

Damn...until that gets sorted out, anything short of an Autotune-like feature you're stuck where you're at. I'll subscribe to this to stay pinned of any updates, though.

 

[Old Git Ray]

Damn...until that gets sorted out, anything short of an Autotune-like feature you're stuck where you're at. I'll subscribe to this to stay pinned of any updates, though.

I cannot grumble. The bike goes very well but I really wanted an economical one as opposed to a missile, which mine is with 8hp more at the top and 20hp more at mid range in 2nd gear. (at the rear wheel)

Unfortunately (for me), the Dyno measures max power, not economy.

I will likely tinker with it a bit and make a second map with a handlebar switch. I can also tinker with the optimiser settings using the sliders posted in one of my earlier posts. That screen pops up when the lap top is plugged into the optimiser, which obviously will not be seen by anyone on a US spec bike.

 

[Karson]

Hmm, my US spec bike can get that when plugged into the optimizer. From my conversations with dynojet, that let's me tweak the default 13.6 closed loop my Optimizer tries to obtain to a richer <13.6 or leaner >13.6 AFR. I think each increment is a 1/10th AFR number off the top of my head.

I was in that screen fiddling around with them on the phone if when I got off the phone, dumping 11's in the closed loop fuel table couldn't get me to that magical 13.6 AFR.

 

[Old Git Ray]

Hmm, my US spec bike can get that when plugged into the optimizer. From my conversations with dynojet, that let's me tweak the default 13.6 closed loop my Optimizer tries to obtain to a richer <13.6 or leaner >13.6 AFR. I think each increment is a 1/10th AFR number off the top of my head.

I was in that screen fiddling around with them on the phone if when I got off the phone, dumping 11's in the closed loop fuel table couldn't get me to that magical 13.6 AFR.

From this, I assume your bike has not been flashed ?

Is there any chance you could post any instructions you got with the optimiser.

When you say you could not adjust the closed loop area, were you doing it from the PCV or the optimiser. When I plugged my lap top into the mini USB port on the optimiser (as opposed to the port on the PCV) I was presented with the sliders like this:

Is this what you were using or were you using the main table ?

 

[Karson]

Same deal for me.

Here's how I approach it from a base/untrimmed map. If i plug my laptop into the Optimizer, those sliders pop-up and allow me to enrichen/lean the preprogrammed 13.6AFR dynojet thinks is close to optimal for our bikes. Those sliders increment a +/- .1 to the closed loop AFR target.

In the PCV, I leave the AFR's in the closed loop at zero, as I've got the Optimizer tricking the O2 sensors to obtain a 13.6AFR. Now, in my fuel table, I've got numbers in every single cell, closed and open loop. I think outside of the closed loop I had 10, and inside of the closed loop I had 11's and that was working good for me to help the Optimizer get to 13.6.

What's going on here is the Optimizer isn't going to give the motor any more fuel than what it takes for a 13.6 AFR. There might be an instant where it is too rich based off my values in the fuel table, but the O2 sensors will send their info to the Optimizer and then the Optimizer will send commands to the ECU to lessen or increase fuel to the motor. I was having low RPM surging and told to increment my fuel table up to 15 in the closed loop before tweaking the sliders to be more rich. So no real harm in adding a little fuel in the closed loop here and there until you're happy.

Outside of the closed loop, I gave those cells a 10 value because I wanted the AutoTune to have something to trim off . It's not really needed, I suppose, since eventually the Autotune will get it right. After many sessions of looking at my trims and having to reset maps, I knew that 10's in the open loop fuel table area, again based off my target AFR table, would get it close each time throughout the RPM range. Anyway, the Autotune will enrichen/lean based off whatever your target AFR values are in those cells, and make trim adjustments within the limits you set (factory defaults are up to -30 to +30 increments on the fly, but I scoped them down to -15 to +15) I don' t think you have a trim table, though, if I"m not mistaken.

I have my maps floating around here if you want to look at them. Some of my later ones are after I started getting really close to a dialed in map. Takes awhile. I usually don't accept trims until I ride at least 2-300 miles. Again, hope this helps a little, but without a autotune, I'm not sure it's of much value

Again, I'm almost certain that's how the sequence of events goes with the Optimizer and PCV based off a conversation with Roy at dynojet several months ago. If someone wants to clarify any of that, I'd be more than happy

 

[Old Git Ray]

Thanks, That does make sense.

I have set my bike up with 2 fuel maps and stuck a switch by the clocks so I will use the original.which as I said is very powerful having about 10hp more at the crank (actually 8 at on the dyno).

So armed with what you said, I will play with map 2.

Ray

 

[talonboy]

I cannot grumble. The bike goes very well but I really wanted an economical one as opposed to a missile, which mine is with 8hp more at the top and 20hp more at mid range in 2nd gear. (at the rear wheel)

Unfortunately (for me), the Dyno measures max power, not economy.

I will likely tinker with it a bit and make a second map with a handlebar switch. I can also tinker with the optimiser settings using the sliders posted in one of my earlier posts. That screen pops up when the lap top is plugged into the optimiser, which obviously will not be seen by anyone on a US spec bike.

If you are looking for strictly good fuel economy, you can leave the Optimizer off the bike. If the o2 sensors are plugged in stock, the bike should run at around 14.6 AFR in closed loop area. This should net you pretty good (relatively) fuel economy. If you plug in the optimizer (factory setting), you should get around 13.6 AFR in closed loop.

 

[jajpko]

If you are looking for strictly good fuel economy, you can leave the Optimizer off the bike. If the o2 sensors are plugged in stock, the bike should run at around 14.6 AFR in closed loop area. This should net you pretty good (relatively) fuel economy. If you plug in the optimizer (factory setting), you should get around 13.6 AFR in closed loop.

That's not quite right. From dyno runs, the stock bike has an AFR chart starting around 14 to 15 and then goes down into the high 12's and back into the mid 13's.

If you ran 14.6 in the closed loop(where most of the riding is done) the bike would be running too lean.
From what I've read, most tuners will end up in the low 13's with a PC. The ideal tune is the ECU flash in my opinion, and if needed throw in the PC.

 

[Old Git Ray]

Following of from the differences between the UK and US, ECUnleashed flash (and ECUs). I got a reply from them (US) when I asked them if the closed loop part was still used by UK ECUs following the flash. This was the reply:

Hello Ray,
Yes, our flash works with the PCV and O2 optimizer to bypass the
closed loop circuit on these bikes. The optimizer is definitely being
used and should not be removed. We are happy to hear you are happy with
the reflash.
Thanks,
-ECUnleashed Staff

 

[talonboy]

That's not quite right. From dyno runs, the stock bike has an AFR chart starting around 14 to 15 and then goes down into the high 12's and back into the mid 13's.

If you ran 14.6 in the closed loop(where most of the riding is done) the bike would be running too lean.
From what I've read, most tuners will end up in the low 13's with a PC. The ideal tune is the ECU flash in my opinion, and if needed throw in the PC.

From what I have seen riding my bike on the road, PCV and o2 sensors connected to Optimizer, AFR 13.6 - 13.8 in the closed loop area. Same conditions, PCV, o2 sensors connected stock, 14.6 - 14.7 closed loop area. The bike runs exactly the same in open loop area with either setup; i.e. the way it was tuned with the PCV.

Most bikes come from the factory tuned to stoichiometric afr of 14.6 - 14.7 at lower RPM and throttle positions(closed loop). Most tuners think that 14.7 is too lean for good throttle response, and tune bikes to something richer 13.2 - 13.8 at lower RPM's and lower throttle positions. Run your bike whichever way you prefer.

 

[ash1]

Hi

I have just added a new map with the oxygen sensors disconnected & closed loop area set to 13.6 afr. The results are pretty different to what I thought would be the outcome. Once the mapping was completed I reconnected the o2 sensors. It is much smoother with no surging for fuel or for taking away.

Ash ::022::

 

[Old Git Ray]

I know it is a while since anyone posted in this but I thought I would ad some comments.

From above, inmates will know that I was happy with my set up.

You will note the 'was'. I am currently on a long trip around the US and I found that when cruising as 3000-3500 rpm the vibration was intolerable. I needed to do something and the simplest thing to do was disconnect the O2 optimisers and reconnect as original.

The vibration simply went away. I have not bothered to do anything else as I am waiting for my Gen2 reflash to be done.