Oil pan thread is shot

yz454

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Come on guys it,s not that complicated for all these pages . Just tap it or a self tapping over size plug which is easy .
 

Don in Lodi

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yz454 said:
Come on guys it,s not that complicated for all these pages . Just tap it or a self tapping over size plug which is easy .
Just a POI: The single oversize stands a good chance of splitting the aluminum casting that holds the threads.
 

OldRider

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Don's got it right. Those self taping drain plugs will bust a long threaded aluminum drain hole. They are made for a thin steel auto pan.
 

talreli

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Got the M12 x 1.5 Time-Sert kit yesterday. This is dummy proof set for first time rethreading and includes a steel inserts for an M12 bolt, so no more stripping *ever* again on this thread....
 

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EricV

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It's a good kit. Clean the aluminum area of new threads very well with a solvent or alcohol and let dry before you install the insert and use some permanent loctite for the insert to aluminum threads. I have seen Timeserts come out in spark plug and oil drain plug applications after a while. It rarely causes damage, but is something of a pain to deal with every time you unscrew it after that. It's hard to get it to stay after the Timesert comes loose.

Note that it is possible to strip the threads again, but that you won't strip the steel Timesert threads, but instead the aluminum threads the Timesert is threaded into. :( Seen it, had to fix it, not fun. (customer vehicle)
 

catang5oh

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Timeserts put it back better than stock, steel insert firmly seated. I use them instead of pain in the but heli coils.
 

talreli

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EricV said:
It's a good kit. Clean the aluminum area of new threads very well with a solvent or alcohol and let dry before you install the insert and use some permanent loctite for the insert to aluminum threads. I have seen Timeserts come out in spark plug and oil drain plug applications after a while. It rarely causes damage, but is something of a pain to deal with every time you unscrew it after that. It's hard to get it to stay after the Timesert comes loose.

Note that it is possible to strip the threads again, but that you won't strip the steel Timesert threads, but instead the aluminum threads the Timesert is threaded into. :( Seen it, had to fix it, not fun. (customer vehicle)
Thanks for the tips! any thoughts whether I should lean the bike on its side for drilling and threading or working on it while on the center stand will do it ?
 

EricV

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It will be fun enough on the center stand. A thought is that if you do it on the center stand, then move to the side stand, some additional oil will drain out, possibly bringing a few chips with it. Do the clean up, flush on the side stand, then move to the center stand and finish cleaning just the new threads and do the installation of the Timesert.

It's not a great place to access unless you have it on a lift, but you will do fine. ::008::
 

racer

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Ericv, do I understand correctly that the S10 DO NOT use crush washers on the drain plugs? I just changed my oil and looked at the washers and they appeared copper in color and did not resemble the crush washers I had on hand from past bikes. BTW, I just snug up the drain plugs then go a little more with the allen wrench, no ratchet involved. Racer
 

EricV

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racer said:
Ericv, do I understand correctly that the S10 DO NOT use crush washers on the drain plugs? I just changed my oil and looked at the washers and they appeared copper in color and did not resemble the crush washers I had on hand from past bikes. BTW, I just snug up the drain plugs then go a little more with the allen wrench, no ratchet involved. Racer
That is correct. The S10 uses a copper washer instead of the hollow, one time use crush washers that you are familiar with. Nothing wrong with your technique. I have a '12 and my drain plugs are not allen, but the same technique works with a combo wrench, (open end one side, box the other).

The copper washer will still deform if excessive force is used. It's there more to hopefully protect the aluminum threads than to really seal, though it certainly does provide some of that function. When I was being paid to wrench, it was always interesting to see the copper or aluminum washers on vehicles and how many were deformed to the point that they were very thin and sharp edged from abuse.
 

Ironhand

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DarkKnight said:
Got the M12 x 1.5 Time-Sert kit yesterday. This is dummy proof set for first time rethreading and includes a steel inserts for an M12 bolt, so no more stripping *ever* again on this thread....
There ya go. That's the right tool for the job IMO.
 

Grumpy

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All my bikes came fitted with copper washers and I have used the same ones over many oil changes and never had a leak. Also, I use a ratchet, but tightening the bolt, hold it at the socket end for 10 and 12 mm, or an inch further away for 14 mm and have never had a stripped thread. That way you have to be real gorilla to bugger one up :D
 

AndrewA

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Ugh.... Joined the club yesterday evening & stripped the front drain plug threads. After reading all this, I think I'm going to go the 1/2-20 tap route, and have some questions on that:
[list type=decimal]
[*] Should I really drop the pan to re-tap the plug hole?
[*] Are there any 1/2-20 oil plugs that are better or worse than others?
[*] If I drop the pan, do I have to separate the "Oil Element Cover" (part 24 in the attached pic) from the "Strainer Cover" (pan base), or can I do it leaving them attached/connected?
[*] If I drop the pan, do I have to replace all the gaskets and O-rings?
[/list]
Here's the parts image:


I'd obviously prefer to not have to drop the whole pan, but I don't want to risk aluminum shavings in the crankcase. I don't have a lift, so I'd just be working with the bike on the center stand. It's always a risk-reward balancing act, I guess, isn't it?

Thanks!
Andrew
 

OldRider

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AndrewA said:
Ugh.... Joined the club yesterday evening & stripped the front drain plug threads. After reading all this, I think I'm going to go the 1/2-20 tap route, and have some questions on that:
[list type=decimal]
[*] Should I really drop the pan to re-tap the plug hole?
[*] Are there any 1/2-20 oil plugs that are better or worse than others?
[*] If I drop the pan, do I have to separate the "Oil Element Cover" (part 24 in the attached pic) from the "Strainer Cover" (pan base), or can I do it leaving them attached/connected?
[*] If I drop the pan, do I have to replace all the gaskets and O-rings?
[/list]
Here's the parts image:


I'd obviously prefer to not have to drop the whole pan, but I don't want to risk aluminum shavings in the crankcase. I don't have a lift, so I'd just be working with the bike on the center stand. It's always a risk-reward balancing act, I guess, isn't it?

Thanks!
Andrew
I always coat the tap in grease, this will catch most of the shavings. Then I use a small round brush to clean the hole. Put the brush in the hole and pull it down the sides to brush any debris out. Any 1/2 x 20 drain plug will work. Just use a crush washer and don't over tighten it again. I've fixed a small boat load of Honda four wheelers this way. Works great.
 

AndrewA

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Cool. Thanks! So, I assume your advice about the grease and the brush mean you generally do this without pulling the pan off the bike?
 

OldRider

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AndrewA said:
Cool. Thanks! So, I assume your advice about the grease and the brush mean you generally do this without pulling the pan off the bike?
Right. On Honda four wheelers the drain bolt screws directly into the crankcase, no pan.
 
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