"OEM ES Experience" after putting on some miles

[ballisticexchris]

So last week I had my Tenere set at 1 rider and luggage soft +3. This has been my go-to everyday mellow setting. It was horrible and downright scary going through the local canyons. I could not hold a line, the bike wallowed, made strange direction changes in the corners, and my toes kept dragging pavement in sharp turns. I really wanted to see how this thing rides from freeway and straight line to hard cornering without changing anything. I'm here to say it SUCKS!!! Not good and downright dangerous.

Fast forward to this morning. Went to the same canyon and set the suspension to 2 riders and luggage hard +3. This is the very stiffest setting available. 1st thing I noticed was the bike actually raised up a bit in the rear. I was now on my tiptoes when heading out. HOLY DAMN SHIT!!! Night and day difference from last weeks ride. This bike is nothing short of amazing in the turns. Yes the suspension is very stiff. Well worth the tradeoff in phenomenal handling. I was braking deep into the corners at first. Then found myself doing trail braking in the middle of corners. First using just the rear brake. Then with the unified system using front brake only. As an added benefit of setting the valving to hard +3, the fork dive is almost eliminated!! I did happen to drag a footpeg. Only once.

After I came off the mountain I set it at 1 rider and luggage soft +3 and enjoyed a very plush and stable freeway ride home. Yes this ES suspension is really nice.

I'm now over 1000 miles on this bike and really liking the stock suspension. While I know it's under-sprung, The adjustments and settings are more than adequate. I can only imagine how much better it will be after having Race Tech re-spring and valve it for me.

I'm still scratching my head in bewilderment how such a under sprung bike can work so well. The tape measure does not lie. I weigh in at close to 220 lbs geared up. Figure in the panniers, tools, extra fuel, ropes/pulleys/carabiners. Even set in the stiffest position the Tenere really sags under it's own weight. Race Tech service guy told me it sags so much (initial free sag) due to the open ended OEM spring.

Whatever the reason, I'll just continue to ride it until it's due for oil change and/or bushing replacement. I figure I should get a good season or two out of the OEM setup. Being under sprung like it is goes against my thinking as a long time proponent of changing springs to get proper sag. I have no idea why it works and handles as well as it does. One thing for sure is I can't see myself "outriding" the suspension on the pavement. In a few months I'll be venturing off the pavement. That will be a whole new aspect of how good the suspension will keep the knobby's planted.
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[Cycledude]

So you think the ES was worth the extra money ?

 

[ballisticexchris]

OK, so I got the ES, for the same price as a standard. I had not even considered the ES when purchasing mine:

https://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?threads/my-new-super-tenere.24419/#post-339735

I have to say the bone stock OEM springs, valving, and adjustments continue to blow me away!! I would say do yourself a big favor and get the ES. It provides you with 84 different adjustments. The bike continues to amaze me with fantastic road and cornering manners.

I just did a 350 miler fully packed down with over 60lbs of luggage. I had it set at 2 helmets and soft +3 for most of the ride. Scrolled it on the fly to hard +3 for the tight corners. When I hit the freeway with howling side winds I simply pulled over and softened the preload to 1 helmet + luggage and soft +3. The bike lowered giving it more rake and trail. Very stable ride home.

What not to do is take sag measurements!! Tape measure says the springs are way too soft. I have no idea how Yamaha engineers managed to make this bike handle so well with a cheap ass, soft as crap, mass produced "open ended" rear spring. But they did. If you set the suspension up to full hard (2helmets + luggage and hard +3) it turns into a real corner carver. You can even slam the front brakes and make line changes in "panic mode". Very little fork dive. Whats cool is the ability to soften and harden the suspension without ever getting off it.

I'm going to run the stock suspension until the wearable parts need replacement. Normally fork bushings are the first to go. Race Tech service department guys said I should be able to squeeze around 10,000 miles before refresh is needed. Another advantage of the ES suspension is its fully rebuildable front and rear and can be re-valved to your liking.

 

[Cycledude]

I’ve been looking to buy an ES as well, seems unbelievable but most dealers I’ve talked to say the ES ain’t worth the extra money but obviously these dealers don’t have any in stock.

 

[WJBertrand]

What do you mean by "open ended" spring?

 

[Sierra1]

So you think the ES was worth the extra money ?

Hello....tap, tap, tap,....is this thing on? The engineers, who are not gods, knew what they were doing. I keep reading how the suspension is under sprung, too soft, and needs fixin'. Then I go out and put my 300lb ass on it, and hustle through corners; rock solid. Or, put my wife on it, and REALLY load it up. The bike doesn't care. Ride not quite right? Fine tune it ON THE FLY, until it feels right. That being said, I have ZERO miles in real off road; I don't consider dirt/gravel roads as "off road". This suspension may suck way off road, but I doubt it. So, yes, I do believe the ES is worth the money. My dealer actually sold me my ES, zero miles, for the price of a non-ES. There is nothing wrong with the non-ES, it's just that there's more right with the ES. And, isn't the difference even more pronounced in the UK?

 

[ballisticexchris]

What do you mean by "open ended" spring?

If you look at the OEM spring you will notice the coils do not touch each other at the ends. On a closed end spring the end of the coil touches the other coils at both ends.

That's why the OEM springs give strange sag numbers. Most all OEM springs are like the one on the very right. They are ground but you get the idea. Every aftermarket spring I know of are closed "ground" design. I was going nuts trying to figure out why the sag numbers were so weird. Race Tech service technician showed and explained it to me when I brought my bike in. Open ended sprigs are a lot cheaper to produce. They also give very large sag numbers due to the initial softness. Good news is once the open ends of the spring compress, it works like a normal closed end design. I honestly had no idea about these designs.

 

[WJBertrand]

If you look at the OEM spring you will notice the coils do not touch each other at the ends. On a closed end spring the end of the coil touches the other coils at both ends.

That's why the OEM springs give strange sag numbers. Most all OEM springs are like the one on the very right. They are ground but you get the idea. Every aftermarket spring I know of are closed "ground" design. I was going nuts trying to figure out why the sag numbers were so weird. Race Tech service technician showed and explained it to me when I brought my bike in. Open ended sprigs are a lot cheaper to produce. They also give very large sag numbers due to the initial softness. Good news is once the open ends of the spring compress, it works like a normal closed end design. I honestly had no idea about these designs.



View attachment 49564

Here’s a photo of my OEM ES spring (yellow) compared to an aftermarket Eibach spring (red). They are slightly open but are ground flat. When installed, there’s enough initial preload even at the one helmet setting that they are essentially closed. Kinda an in between design.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[ballisticexchris]

Here’s a photo of my OEM ES spring (yellow) compared to an aftermarket Eibach spring (red). They are slightly open but are ground flat. When installed, there’s enough initial preload even at the one helmet setting that they are essentially closed. Kinda an in between design.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Interesting. IMO, you did your spring change right. Less preload and higher rate with spacer. I was going to get the direct fit spring but Race Tech discouraged me. All that initial preload really messes up the ride quality. More preload on the "direct fit" spring gives too harsh a ride for my taste. You might want to consider a closed end spring down the road. All the Race Tech springs I've used over the years are of that design.

I have not used a Eibach spring since the 90's on my XR 600R!!

 

[ballisticexchris]

Here is what a Race tech spring looks like. All mine are of this design. Closed end and ground flat. I've been running this style spring for years on my dirt bikes. Very consistent rate throughout the travel. I'm actually kind of excited and looking forward to dropping my bike off at the service center. I just need to put the miles on it and wear out what I have first.....

 

[Thrasherg]

I weigh 200lbs with all helmet and gear, I found the sag numbers on the front to be perfect with stock springs, but the rear sag was too much, I ended up fitting a slightly stronger rear spring and love the handling, I usually ride with it set for one rider in normal position (not hard or soft) and have been very pleased. Still I would like to know more when an aftermarket suspension company has done some work and can provide recommended upgrades!! It's a shame we cant adjust the suspension whilst on the move, I am often riding when I notice a change in road surface/style and would like to set the suspension up differently. Don't like having to come to a complete halt to change settings!! Just a minor complaint!!

Gary

 

[ballisticexchris]

What spring did you go with Gary?

 

[WJBertrand]

Interesting. IMO, you did your spring change right. Less preload and higher rate with spacer. I was going to get the direct fit spring but Race Tech discouraged me. All that initial preload really messes up the ride quality. More preload on the "direct fit" spring gives too harsh a ride for my taste. You might want to consider a closed end spring down the road. All the Race Tech springs I've used over the years are of that design.

I have not used a Eibach spring since the 90's on my XR 600R!!

The spring rate is about 28% higher (550 lb/in) but the initial preload (in terms of mm compression) as installed is about the same as OEM. Since this spring has a higher rate, the same amount of installed compression will yield slightly more installed pre-load force than the OEM. I calculated it once but don't have the number handy right now. Since the Eibach is about 10mm shorter than the OEM, I used a 10mm spacer (note in the previously posted image the Eibach is sitting on the spacer making the assembly the same length of the OEM spring alone).

For me the graphical representations on the instrument panel for preload now actually match my loading conditions. At the time I did the change out I weighed about 245 lbs. I'm currently down to about 210 (and heading lower hopefully). I'd probably fit a 525 in/lb spring for my current weight if I were doing the job now. This is the spring I used:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/eib-08002500550/overview/

It actually looks like a closed end spring in the on-line images. The photo I posted was one I just had on the phone and doesn't really show the end of the Eibach spring very well. As installed, it's definitely closed with the shock at full extension. So it would seem I've already fitted a closed end spring.

I agree with the direct fit spring RT having too much pre-load. I helped a forum member fit one and I really had to crank the spring compressors a lot more to make it fit. Further, the direct fit spring has a lower rate so there will be less difference/range between the adjustment settings as a result.

As a note, when RaceTech rebuilt and revalved the OEM shock on my ST1300 it came with an Eibach spring installed. Eibach is one of RaceTech's suppliers.

 

[ballisticexchris]

That's good info Jeff! Thank you. I'm really curious to see what they fit on mine. BTW congrats on the weight loss! In 2009 I had a life changing experience. I climbed Half Dome starting from the bottom of the valley floor. Over 18 miles of pure torture with no walking poles. I was out of shape, 253lbs, and using a tank bag for a backpack. After that I lost 73lbs in one year. I've leveled off at around 200lbs and I'm happy with my weight.

Sorry to get off topic but as you know, peeling of pounds is really tough.

 

[WJBertrand]

Yeah, I just started to feel like a slug and couldn't do the simplest things around the house without sweating like a pig. I decided I've had enough and cut way back on the beer, and refined carbs mostly. Eating a lot more salads and veggies. Weight is coming off very slowly but consistently, started the year at 250lbs (so I went up a little after fitting my spring, before starting to loose). Goal is it get under 200 lbs and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[Thrasherg]

What spring did you go with Gary?

Chris, I will try and find the details of the spring, I changed it a year ago, but can't remember the make or spring rate, I believe it was about 15% stiffer than stock and it fitted onto the stock shock without requiring any adapters/spacers.

Gary

 

[ballisticexchris]

Thanks Gary. No rush. I figure to let Race Tech have my bike for a few weeks and let them do everything when refresh time comes. I was amazed that they are a full service shop. They have a full on machine shop to do custom work as well.