New Honda 2020 ES

RonH

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#41
$18,000 I believe it will flop big time. Nothing about it looks better on paper or in pictures vs the super tenere for things I look for. No centerstand I assume (optional accessory for $300), You can look at a color screen though. Who cares? Rider modes for rain,dust,snow, whatever, I use my throttle for that manually. You can do apple car play, that rarely works, but who cares? Maybe bluetooth your phone to the bike? My favorite thing, talk on the phone while riding? No thanks. Chain drive, seat that looks painful to say the least. DCT something I would like outlawed. No money going to Honda here.
 

regder

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#42
$18,000 I believe it will flop big time. Nothing about it looks better on paper or in pictures vs the super tenere for things I look for. No centerstand I assume (optional accessory for $300), You can look at a color screen though. Who cares? Rider modes for rain,dust,snow, whatever, I use my throttle for that manually. You can do apple car play, that rarely works, but who cares? Maybe bluetooth your phone to the bike? My favorite thing, talk on the phone while riding? No thanks. Chain drive, seat that looks painful to say the least. DCT something I would like outlawed. No money going to Honda here.
Jebus Ron, we get it, new things bad
 
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#43
I sure don't need or want a DCT. That will never happen. I don't need or want ABS, traction control either. Those things all are included unfortunately on about everything now.
The DCT combined with ABS is really amusing to me on the Honda's. Any wheel sensor does not work, ABS does not work of course, but the motorcycle will not ever shift out of first gear. Every post about this on the various forums just makes me glad I still have a left hand and foot, and sense enough to never buy a DCT.
$18,000 I believe it will flop big time. Nothing about it looks better on paper or in pictures vs the super tenere for things I look for. No centerstand I assume (optional accessory for $300), You can look at a color screen though. Who cares? Rider modes for rain,dust,snow, whatever, I use my throttle for that manually. You can do apple car play, that rarely works, but who cares? Maybe bluetooth your phone to the bike? My favorite thing, talk on the phone while riding? No thanks. Chain drive, seat that looks painful to say the least. DCT something I would like outlawed. No money going to Honda here.
Hi there Ron, I probably would have gotten this bike had it came out when I was looking for my adventure bike. As it is I have no regrets getting the Super Tenere. Yamaha really outdid themselves with this bike. I sadly have to agree the some of the fancy do dads and gadgets are really getting out of control on some of these bikes.

For me the Yamaha did it just right. I'm really enjoying the ES, ABS, traction control, ride modes, cruise control, heated grips, etc. It's not too complicated and makes the bike really fun to ride. OTOH, some of these new bikes have so many features it boggles the mind!! I'm fortunate enough to still have kind of an old school bike with my Beta. It has a carb LOL!!
 

WJBertrand

Ventura Highway
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#44
Kinda unusual for Honda to listen to customers and then actually incorporate changes based on that. When the AT was first introduced it seemed like Honda positioned itself so as not to directly compete with anyone. It’s good to finally see them take a more direct shot and get straight into the game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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Joined
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#46
I love the versatility of the Tenere and have enjoyed the ES extras, but I believe I want something a little easier to ride in the deep sand and mud in my area. While I enjoy the shaft drive I think a dirt oriented bike should have a chain. The Honda looks a little confusing to me with the chain drive/ 18"/21" wheels then adding all the electrical niceties to the package.
 

dannyv

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#47
Kinda like the reasons I have for driving my Tacoma, instead of the Lincoln that lurks about here. A gear shift instead of buttons, heater controls that make clicks, a real key, simple and super dependable. I'm keeping my Toyota for now. The Tenere too.
 

greg the pole

There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
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#48
I've owned my 2017 AT manual for two seasons, 27k km. Great bike.
wrote about the AT when I got it a few years back. Most comments are still valid:
https://thetenerist.wordpress.com/2...bye-bye-super-tenere-hello-honda-africa-twin/

It's better than my 2012 tenere that I owned for 5 or 6 yrs, and 90k km:
-Better on rougher roads. The 21/18 tire combo is great. You can punt this thing down a ATV trail at fair clip. The tenere had a few close calls with me, where I almost broke the drain pans, even with a good plate (ACD)
-Better ground clearance. See above.
-Better valve adjustments once you get to it (more below). It's far better on the rough stuff than the tenere. No questions.
Idaho BDR never gave me any real issues. We did tackle a few of the pro sections with out problems. The AT kicked ass on the Lolo motorway (not really a motorway at all), and still had a blast ripping up the paved portion of Lolo pass a few days later.
ID BDR


-About the same power with less weight. Motor is quite good
-Chain? I don't care. Lube it every 600km. Still on the original chain and rear sprocket. I have changed the OEM front at 20 or 22k as it was starting to curl. Should see about 35k km out of the original chain/rear sprocket.
It's worse than the tenere:
-On longer days. It's not a super long distance bike. No cc. 2020 solves that.
-Valves are 24k km vs tenere 42k km.
-Whereas the tenere was six bolts, a hinged tank, and bam! you were at the air box, the AT is a bunch of swering, broken fairing pins, and wondering what the hell honda was thinking about.
On a positive note, the valves are uni cam, so exhaust valves are screw type, and not shim under bucket, and are easy to adjust. Valve cover is easy on off, whereas the tenere was a total bitch!
-Shaft vs chain? I had my shaft shit the bed due to the plug falling out out of the swing arm.. It wasn't a walk in the park to fix the outer seal.
I do not miss my Tenere. The AT has been good.
Now..the redesign. What pisses me off, is the fact that they didn't fix the inherent suspension issues. They are making the bike heavier, and if ridden as advertised, the 45mm forks do not stand up. The ATAS forks flex, and the regular forks are worse still.
They threw a bunch of shit gizmos on it, and they will sell well enough. But compare it to the Euro trash, and it simply doesn't measure up in terms of OEM suspension.
As an AT owner, I would not go to the 2020. They didn't fix what was the issues for me (and many other AT owners).
Like putting lipstick on a pig.
For guys that are considering DCT..There was a few people that had some serious issues with theirs that Honda couldn't fix. @twinrider
is one that gave up on his and went back to a Tenere.
 
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twinrider

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#50
I sold my first S10 to get the new AT in 2016. Turned out to be the most problematic bike I ever owned. In the two years I owned it the DCT transmission, fuel pump and headlight switch all broke. What led me to ultimately sell it though was the intermittent stalling issue that Honda couldn't fix despite replacing a lot of parts. Finally Honda HQ told me the stalling was an engine characteristic, not a flaw.

Even setting aside these issues, compare the bikes side by side and it was clear that the Honda was built on a budget compared to the S10. Quality of plastics, fasteners, features, etc. Compare the rear racks side by side, just one example. The S10 is a premium bike, the AT is an exercise in cost-cutting on Honda's part. I used to be a big Honda fan but the company has changed since the 1990s. Now they strive to build each part as cheaply as possible.

There was also frame geometry issues. The Honda was very nimble and fun solo unloaded, and it was fun on dirt. But put some camping gear on it and it'd get headshake going around corners even with the rear suspension cranked up. I've owned a lot of bikes and never experienced this before. Seems like Honda overcompensated in the frame design when trying to make it handle nimbly with the 21" front wheel. The S10 can be loaded like a pack horse and never has stability issues. Yamaha put a lot of work into the design of this bike and it shows.
 
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greg the pole

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#51
I sold my first S10 to get the new AT in 2016. Turned out to be the most problematic bike I ever owned. In the two years I owned it the DCT transmission, fuel pump and headlight switch all broke. What led me to ultimately sell it though was the intermittent stalling issue that Honda couldn't fix despite replacing a lot of parts. Finally Honda HQ told me the stalling was an engine characteristic, not a flaw.

Even setting aside these issues, compare the bikes side by side and it was clear that the Honda was built on a budget compared to the S10. Quality of plastics, fasteners, features, etc. Compare the rear racks side by side, just one example. The S10 is a premium bike, the AT is an exercise in cost-cutting on Honda's part. I used to be a big Honda fan but the company has changed since the 1990s. Now they strive to build each part as cheaply as possible.

There was also frame geometry issues. The Honda was very nimble and fun solo unloaded, and it was fun on dirt. But put some camping gear on it and it'd get headshake going around corners even with the rear suspension cranked up. I've owned a lot of bikes and never experienced this before. Seems like Honda overcompensated in the frame design when trying to make it handle nimbly with the 21" front wheel. The S10 can be loaded like a pack horse and never has stability issues. Yamaha put a lot of work into the design of this bike and it shows.
I have to agree with 90% of the above.
The front getting light is just crap suspension. The rear doesn't do its job.
and yes it was built by accountants. At 10 paces it looks good. Look closer, and the frame pain is paper thin, the plastic remval process is not built for servicing, it's built for looks.
My front fender fasteners stripped on first use. I replaced them with SS items.
It's no 2001 VFR 800, Zero doubt about that.
That said, mine has only had the issues with the front forks. The rest of the bike has been solid, even though it gets regular thrashings.
I ride this thing a lot harder than the tenere, and further off the beten path, so it will not hold up as well as the ST did.
But...after two years, it still looks great, and I do not miss my tenere.
 

greg the pole

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#53
Kinda unusual for Honda to listen to customers and then actually incorporate changes based on that. When the AT was first introduced it seemed like Honda positioned itself so as not to directly compete with anyone. It’s good to finally see them take a more direct shot and get straight into the game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
honda listening to customers? hilarious stuff!
 

greg the pole

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#54
$18,000 I believe it will flop big time. Nothing about it looks better on paper or in pictures vs the super tenere for things I look for. No centerstand I assume (optional accessory for $300), You can look at a color screen though. Who cares? Rider modes for rain,dust,snow, whatever, I use my throttle for that manually. You can do apple car play, that rarely works, but who cares? Maybe bluetooth your phone to the bike? My favorite thing, talk on the phone while riding? No thanks. Chain drive, seat that looks painful to say the least. DCT something I would like outlawed. No money going to Honda here.
Don't kid yourself. They will get sales. Latest greatest shit sells. And no I will not be buying another Honda.
BTW..great seat, much better than the tenere OEM. Chain, again, personal thing. See my notes about my shaft experience.
To each his own. AT leans more towards the more technical riding spectrum. Shaft has no place there.
 

greg the pole

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#55
One thing I wonder about, it appears that the new version will still have 21"/18" size wheels and still spoked wheels, though tubeless. I have had several former AT owners tell me one of the reasons they moved on was the basic instability of the 21/18 at interstate speeds.
maybe its the tubes...mine is tubless...rock steady at 90mph...loaded to the tits!
 

Sierra1

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#56
it is the bike honda should have built first , and if it is lighter its better for off road .
I....The Honda was very nimble and fun solo unloaded, and it was fun on dirt. But put some camping gear on it and it'd get headshake going around corners even with the rear suspension cranked up.....
My opinion is that the Honda was designed with a different mission in mind. Obviously the AT was designed for a more play in the dirt/off-road role than to be loaded up like a pack mule . The Tenere has a huge front end weight bias. Which, when it's loaded with luggage and/or a passenger, the weight is more balanced. They're both called adventure bikes, but they're built for different adventures.
 

Cycledude

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#57
If I was buying a new adventure bike it most likely would be the Honda Africa Twin DCT.
But right now I suspect my 2018 S10 ES will very likely be the last adventure bike for me.
 

Checkswrecks

Ungenear to broked stuff
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#58
I sat for a while on the new 1100 Honda AT at the AIMExpo show in Columbus because there was something that wasn't right to me. While I have no doubt they will sell a bunch of them, as I sat there things that came to focus were:

1. The odd narrow windscreen looks like a turbulence generator.
2. Seat definitely needs to go.
3. The bikes' overall feel was lost somewhere between the AT1000 and Tenere but doesn't have the better aspects of either. The bar seems wider than the Tenere with that bigger tank, which just felt odd.
4. Chain drive for what should be a long distance bike is a deal killer.

I'll probably try to rent one on a trip at some point but the 1100 didn't have the balanced feel of the 1000 or friendliness of the Tenere.

Obviously, ymmv
 
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#59
It was between the AT and ST when I was finally ready to buy. I just knew I would get myself in trouble with the Honda. I'm already used to a 21/18 combo. When I sat on the Honda Sports, it felt like just an oversized dirtbike. I have my Beta for that. And my Beta can do everything the Honda AT can do including multi day miles in the saddle. After all, My Beta was an adventure bike until I got the Super Tenere. Anyone who is doing a lot of offroad would be much better served on a lightweight dual sport.

I decided on comfort and a fire road bike. I'm not into riding a 500+ lb bike like a dirtbike. All that weight will get the average novice such as myself over their head really quick.
 
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