Need extra tips getting air out of ABS unit.

[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Still no luck. Have tried every bleeding technique variant i can find online. All i ever get out is fluid. No bubbles. Anyone wanna buy an S10, back brakes work only. Lol.

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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Air might not be your problem. I have struggled with caliper piston seals in the past and have had some that "bind". What happens is the piston seals drag to such a degree that they will either keep the pistons from retracting enough when you release your brake lever, and your brakes will drag, OR in what sounds like your case, they retract the piston so much that when you pull the lever again, most of the stroke is used up just getting the pistons back to where they are pressing against the pads. Although the seals are not directional, you may want to disassemble the calipers again and reverse those seals, and see if it makes any difference at all. If it does, then at least you know you are headed in the right direction. Maybe even install the original seals again.

I swapped the new seal with the old ones today. Made no difference im afraid.

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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Im due to do the valves and servuce soon anyways so im resigned to attempting to pull every part of the brake system out and bench prime the whole thing before putting it back into bike. Has anyone every removed the whole system? Is it possible? This is the most ridiculous brake system ive ever bleed. Why is there no bleeder on the abs module? Grrrr.

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[RCinNC]

Before you do that, just stop and regroup. Do you know for sure that the ABS pump is working properly? Other members on here have had failures of the pump, and I'm not sure if all those failures resulting in an ABS warning light. I'd look at some of those threads and see what symptoms they experienced and see if they match what's happening to you. Removing a brake system isn't going to help; that just transfers the problem from the bike to the bench. Maybe you don't have air in the system; maybe you have a faulty ABS pump. After everything you've tried so far to bleed the system with no success, I'd be leaning towards a component failure at this point, like the pump or the master cylinder, as another poster mentioned. A failing master cylinder can produce the symptoms you've described.

 

[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Pretty sure it is. Cycles as per normal and ive activated while test riding it to see if it worked.
MC fail is a possibility. Will look into how to check it out. Just seems strange it decided to fail at that time. Maybe the several days the system was dry has damaged it.

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[RCinNC]

One way to check is to take the cover off the master cylinder and gently squeeze the brake lever. If you see swirls or bubbles in the fluid in the reservoir, it means the master cylinder piston seals are leaking and fluid is getting past them. That can be the cause of a spongy lever.

 

[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Does anyone know how yamaha prime up these systems at the factory?? There must be a trick to it or some piece of equipment that can quickly and reliably do tye job.

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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Still getting beated by these damn brakes. Are the caliper seals in the 2010 S10 the same as the seals in the later bikes??
The new seals i bought stated 2012 to 2020 models. The part numbers are the same on yamaha parts finder. So i figured id be right.

Also, do the seals need to go into caliper in one direction only? They didnt look tapered at all.

I get the feeling that the pistons are retracting more than they should be.
I seem to get soft brakes for first couple of pumps and then lever gets abit harder. Also for the first couple pumps i can hear a tinging sound down near the rotors like the pads are engaging against the rotors.

If i strap down the lever for a couple hours i get real good lever pressure, unfortunately the next day it is soft again.

Still air?? Or new seals to stiff and pulling pistons back to far.?

Just wanna go for a ride.

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[scott123007]

Rebuild your master cylinder while you're at it. I had the exact same problem on my '14 and it ended up being the M/C.

 

[patrickg450]

my bet is you have a bad ABS unit. Sorry to say that but I had the same problem......


Installed a new one and it solved the problem.

 

[WJBertrand]

Still getting beated by these damn brakes. Are the caliper seals in the 2010 S10 the same as the seals in the later bikes??
The new seals i bought stated 2012 to 2020 models. The part numbers are the same on yamaha parts finder. So i figured id be right.

Also, do the seals need to go into caliper in one direction only? They didnt look tapered at all.

I get the feeling that the pistons are retracting more than they should be.
I seem to get soft brakes for first couple of pumps and then lever gets abit harder. Also for the first couple pumps i can hear a tinging sound down near the rotors like the pads are engaging against the rotors.

If i strap down the lever for a couple hours i get real good lever pressure, unfortunately the next day it is soft again.

Still air?? Or new seals to stiff and pulling pistons back to far.?

Just wanna go for a ride.

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Have you checked your rotors for run out? A warped/bent rotor will tend to push the pads back almost like you’re describing.


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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Have you checked your rotors for run out? A warped/bent rotor will tend to push the pads back almost like you’re describing.


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Rotors are fine. That is how this mess started. I had a warped rotor so replaced it and did the calipers at same time. The retraction happens with the bike sitting still.

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[Gerard]

You could do this mod to the ABS to eliminate any doubt before splurging out on a new one https://yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?threads/abs-unit-bypass-pipe-details.29928/

 

[swakop_toe]

Two weeks ago I replaced all three brakediscs/rotors on my 2010 1st Edition.
Long story short, in order to get the new pads in over the new disc, the service manual states to loosen the bleedscrew and push the single brake piston inwards. Mine would not budge at all.
I did both fronts already the same way with no issues. I had to remove the bleedscrew and only then I could push the piston back. I noticed the bleedscrew inner hole was clogged and managed to open it up with a wire brush.
Anyway, with everything fitted nicely I had to now bleed the line again was just could not get enough brakefluid pumped to a point where the air bubbles stopped coming through.
By the 2nd time I topped up the brakefluid reservoir (by not much at all), I noticed the brakefluid in the clear tube attached to the bleedscrew was being sucked back into the brakeline. Pump, pump, let go, and it would suck the fluid (and bubbles) in the clear tube back in.
I struggled like this for probably 30 minutes, but must admit I did not have to top up the fluid much at all, maybe 20ml. I also could not get the fluid to run clear of bubbles and at each attempt, about the 4-6th pump of the rear brake pedal no fluid was coming out. I gave up as the bike was going in for it's big 80,000km service three days later and I was not going to use it until then.
They were going to flush all the fluids anyway.

Part of the service was a new master brake cylinder seal too and and new the master cylinder bleedscrew. They suck the brakelines empty with a vacuum pump and then start refilling with new fluid until all the lines run clear.

I also think you should consider a master cylinder seal replacement and an active suction device instead of relying on the bike brake mechanism to clear the lines?

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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Two weeks ago I replaced all three brakediscs/rotors on my 2010 1st Edition.
Long story short, in order to get the new pads in over the new disc, the service manual states to loosen the bleedscrew and push the single brake piston inwards. Mine would not budge at all.
I did both fronts already the same way with no issues. I had to remove the bleedscrew and only then I could push the piston back. I noticed the bleedscrew inner hole was clogged and managed to open it up with a wire brush.
Anyway, with everything fitted nicely I had to now bleed the line again was just could not get enough brakefluid pumped to a point where the air bubbles stopped coming through.
By the 2nd time I topped up the brakefluid reservoir (by not much at all), I noticed the brakefluid in the clear tube attached to the bleedscrew was being sucked back into the brakeline. Pump, pump, let go, and it would suck the fluid (and bubbles) in the clear tube back in.
I struggled like this for probably 30 minutes, but must admit I did not have to top up the fluid much at all, maybe 20ml. I also could not get the fluid to run clear of bubbles and at each attempt, about the 4-6th pump of the rear brake pedal no fluid was coming out. I gave up as the bike was going in for it's big 80,000km service three days later and I was not going to use it until then.
They were going to flush all the fluids anyway.

Part of the service was a new master brake cylinder seal too and and new the master cylinder bleedscrew. They suck the brakelines empty with a vacuum pump and then start refilling with new fluid until all the lines run clear.

I also think you should consider a master cylinder seal replacement and an active suction device instead of relying on the bike brake mechanism to clear the lines?

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I dont remember reading about pushing pistons in that way. Was that for the fronts as well??
I havent had to mess with the rear to much, it seemed to come together all fine.


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[swakop_toe]

I dont remember reading about pushing pistons in that way. Was that for the fronts as well??
I havent had to mess with the rear to much, it seemed to come together all fine.


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I'll look up the page number and post it here.
Loosening the bleedscrew relieves the pressure in the line allowing one to push the brake piston inwards to make refitting the new pads much easier. Standard practice, I am led to believe.

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[swakop_toe]

I'll look up the page number and post it here.
Loosening the bleedscrew relieves the pressure in the line allowing one to push the brake piston inwards to make refitting the new pads much easier. Standard practice, I am led to believe.

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Here you go.
Page 4-60

And, FWIW, the documented bleeding instructions and ABS test procedures.

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[swakop_toe]

Here you go.
Page 4-60

And, FWIW, the documented bleeding instructions and ABS test procedures.

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Reading this, again, I realise the mistake I made.
You need to close the bleed screw after each pump. Not after you release the pedal or lever.
Elementary, really. But difficult enough for a single person when the rear caliper is hanging loose.

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[WJBertrand]

Yes, close the bleed screw before even releasing the lever or pedal. So pump, hold the pressure, open bleed screw, close bleed screw, release lever or pedal, repeat.


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[Hendrixwannnabe1]

Thanks for the info. Yeah i just muscled the rear into place. Haha. Its the fronts just i cant work out. Trouble is the symptoms could be caused by multiply things from what ive read. Those that have done the MC service, what kit did ya buy?? They seem to be pretty cheap so might just donit to eliminate that as a cause. Ones ive seen again say 2012 to 2020. Mine is a 2010.

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