Nasty Wreck

[mybackhurts]

Lucky they got tossed. Brutal.

Thoughts on how they could have avoided? They had very little warning. My first thought was brakes instead of horn as well as swerving to their far right.

No judgments to the two in the video. Two up and a full load on the bike. Hard to imagine it could be avoided.

 

[bimota]

i saw that last month on facebook WOW shocking

Rob

 

[Pompey666]

was it the go pro flying off of his helmet?
they were lucky they hit the bonnet and landed into an empty road
every side road & T junction is a bikers nightmare, only a matter of time before some f**kwit makes their move
mine was a VW beetle - one minute having a nice sunday ride next minute waking up in the back of an ambulance
my poor little Suzuki GP100 sent to the breakers yard in the sky

 

[Sierra1]

To me the only way to have prevented this was to look for the exact thing happening. But you would have had to know about threat beforehand. If they hadn't ever ridden this road, they had no way to know about the threat. They are extremely lucky.

 

[EricV]

I rather disagree with you guys. His reactions were all off base and show poor judgement. He saw the vehicle well in advance. He should have understood, as I did, that the vehicle can’t see him at that point. At all. The car driver is seated much lower than his sight line and the vegetation prevents them seeing him. His admitted speed is 70-75 kph, that’s only 45 mph. He had so much extra time prior to the crash that he was doing things instead of slowing down. He should have dropped 20 mph the moment he saw the car’s nose moving.

Even at the point when he hit the horn, he could have avoided the crash if he’d been on the brakes at threshold limits. Horns are for waving to your friends, not getting a driver’s attention. Touch the horn? You just wasted time, energy and focus that should have been on avoidance and braking. Look at how many feet he covered during the time it took him to beep the horn 3 times. He claims to be braking at the same time. Not to any significant degree, no dive in the front. If you’re braking hard, you’re not going to be playing with the horn. He simply never understood the immediate danger he was in.

Note his lane position as well. It doesn’t change from middle of the lane until immediately prior to the impact. And when it does, he makes the classic error of going right, which is what the car is doing. He should have been diving behind the car and hard, hard, hard on the brakes. The moment he saw the car park area, his lane position should have moved to the right, allowing maximum opportunity for the car to see him, but he just kept to the middle, not making use of the space he had in the lane, not MOVING, not doing a quick weave to maximize attention of the driver, just same fixed point oncoming to the driver.

We all ride. When will riders start to understand that car drivers are looking for cars/trucks, not bikes. It doesn’t matter at all if they look your way or “see you”, you have to see them, which he did, and react to avoid what they are going to do, which he failed to do.

The moment he saw the car he should have known right then that they would pull out and immediately braked hard to drop enough speed to be able to STOP if need be. You lose a few seconds of your trip by slowing down for a hazard like this, but avoid an accident.

The lesson for him should be to take the cameras off the bike. He’s clearly not up to the distraction. And take a rider course or three as well as going to the track and learning threshold braking.

 

[OldRider]

From the time he should have seen the truck he had two seconds until impact. At 45mph he could have shaved off a lot of speed if he had got on the brakes heavy. He may have been looking down at his speedo or checking a mirror, which would have eat up most of his time. The truck is 100% at fault, but it would have been a lot lighter hit if the rider could have cut his speed in half. This video shows us just how fast things can happen when you least expect them.

 

[Sierra1]

His camera saw the truck. We don' know where he was actually looking at.

 

[Checkswrecks]

I rather disagree with you guys. His reactions were all off base and show poor judgement. ...His admitted speed is 70-75 kph, that’s only 45 mph. He had so much extra time prior to the crash that he was doing things instead of slowing down. ...

From the time he should have seen the truck he had two seconds until impact. At 45mph he could have shaved off a lot of speed if he had got on the brakes heavy. ...

Sorry but not in the real world.

1. I've slowed the video down and the front wheels of the white truck appear to slow as it comes to the edge of the pavement. (5:09.5) For the rider the truck would look like it might be pausing before pulling out, adding a doubt factor.

2. The time from the truck then came out till impact is a fraction under 2 seconds. (5:11.4) There've been numerous studies on response time which goes recognition-perception-action. A rider who is really on their game and attentive has an average response time of roughly a full second (.75-1.3s), leaving less than one second to be applying the brakes. That is not after already being on the road for any amount of time or having a pillion in the real world.

3. The nose of the bike dives hard .7 seconds before impact so he probably was into ABS at 5:10.7 which was right at 1.3 s into the event, matching the studies incredibly well. He's a big boy, his pillion is not small, and they had baggage weight, all of which would lengthen the ABS distance.

4. He said he hit the horn and it's audible but he was already in action and the horn sounds only for a small last fraction of a second.

5. He said he was originally doing 80 kph/49 mph and slowed to 70-75 kph (43-46) and as an experienced rider probably didn't do it consciously. The slowing starts just before the big truck goes by. (5:09) I'd say his real total suspicion-recognition-perception-action loop was about 2.4 seconds and he was into ABS at 1.7s. Absolutely within normal bounds.

6. He was starting to go to the right toward the white line just before impact, so he was responding and not just cruising into the collision. There was a car coming head-on too, adding an immediate action dilemma/choice of either going into the side of the white truck or head-on into the oncoming car. That would also degrade the reaction loop.

7. While the nose of the bike was going down/braking at 1.3 seconds from the truck wheels coming to the pavement, being in the recognition-perception-action loop for a solid two seconds would still be quite understandable. Yet he beat that so this guy was in the moment and not checked out.

8. They are extremely fortunate to have hit the rear of the hood rather than going into the side of the cab. Hitting the side of the cab at that speed is typically fatal since either the rider's upper thorax or head go into the edge of the car roof. It also causes numerous broken ribs to puncture internal organs and hip fractures as the legs try to go under the handlebars. (Less likely on a Tenere with the fairing and way the tank is shaped.)

and

 

[Madhatter]

I , 4 years ago , had a small s-10 pick up truck turn left in front of me . when he started his turn we were less than 100 ft apart . he had a left turn signal flashing . he was sitting in his turn lane . the speed limit was 60 posted . I had slowed to 52 mph . there is a small portion of paved shoulder to allow a vehicle to pull right but only a bicycle could fully use that shoulder . he turns left , I saw his wheels start to move , I scream NO , I immediately go right , and start hard braking . there is a vicious impact . I hit his left fender between his bumper and front right wheel . this is bad .
now I was not on a motorcycle I was driving a class 8 semi tractor trailer weighing about 80000 lbs . the impact caused the giant hood to fly up and block my vision ,I'm pressing the brake down with all my force . I feel the truck pulling left im trying to hold it straight . the truck veers left to cross over the other lanes . im still trying to hold it straight .( the impact forced my axle left and no amount of turning the wheel right was going to make it steer right ) the hood finally falls down and I can now see im heading into a woods with trees . the truck rolls over . everything stops . im hanging by my seatbelt , the Diesel engine is still running , I finally turn it off . some guy is on the side of my cab asking me if im all right , I do the fingers toes legs arms self diagnosing thing , I say I think so . I ask about the other guy , is he dead ? the helping man says no just banged up . I hear sirens , quick response im thinking , my helper had to cut my seatbelt so I could climb out . the ambulance guy comes and asks me how am im doing , I see they have my left turner on the ground checking him out . they take him to hospital .
the impact shot the little truck back across the highway , we both ended up on the same side of the road . the other guy was so very fortunate that I hadn't impacted say the passenger door , that would I believe done him more grievous damage . the seat belt saved me from major injury , had a sprained left thumb . that other guy spent the night in hospital , but he got to go home .
so he didn't see me , giant truck with headlights on in daylight and clear Skys , a 100 ft or less separating us . what was he doing that had him so distracted to have caused this accident . never will know .
I believe the left turner and their bullshit get out of jail card " I didn't see them ' is exactly that , bullshit . they should be charged with something . they should have their license revoked , clearly they are incompetent to drive , or careless , or criminal .
now I was in a large vehicle , this never should have been possible , but he did it anyway . what if I had been on my bike ?
so I started to ride a bit less over the next few years . then eventually selling my motorcycles last august . and some how I've bought a new bike ( I miss riding ) . my wife asked me if I was going to ride more than before , my answer was I doubt it . In 2 weeks of owning the new stelvio I have 75 miles on her . im in no hurry , will ride when I feel like it . its feels good to have a bike .
people are self focused , on their phones , and prepared to say "I didn't see him " BULLSHIT , they didn't care . we or our survivors should sue and prosecute those people . and till then never let your guard down . incompetence is rampant out there .

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . I believe the left turner and their bullshit get out of jail card " I didn't see them ' is exactly that , bullshit . they should be charged with something . . . .

Depending on which agency investigated, the driver should have been charged with "failure to yield right of way - turning left".

 

[Sierra1]

. . . . There've been numerous studies on response time which goes recognition-perception-action. . . .

 

[Checkswrecks]

I guess this is the financial version.


Yes - I was simplifying so here's an example study:

White Paper regarding Rider Reaction Time published

A first empirical study regarding PTW rider reaction times towards a visual warning has been published by CMC. The results are remarkable: In comparison to driver reaction times in passenger car...

www.cmc-info.net

And another
[URL https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0925753511002414#:~:text=► Field experiments on motorcyclist,of 2.5 sec is recommended

btw - This is exactly the kind of accident that airbag vests are meant for.

 

[Sierra1]

I guess this is the financial version. . . .

Doh!! I read one line and picked it. Didn't even know there was a financial version. Back when I first learned it, there was only one version.

 

[EricV]

Airbag vests. You can’t save stupid. Probably 75% of people wearing an airbag vest under their jacket are doing it wrong and don’t have enough space for the vest to deploy w/o injury to themselves. Anyone buying one, should also be buying a new jacket, and one intended to be worn with an airbag vest. Few people do, they add the vest to their gear.

Back to the incident. Real world I have avoided accidents like this daily on a bike+rider combo nearing 1000 lbs, often equal to or exceeding 2 up packed weight. You don’t start slowing when you see the truck nose. You start reacting and preparing when you see the turn out ahead.

@Checkswrecks - You make good observations, and I grok your background and respect that. However, you said: “ He was starting to go to the right toward the white line just before impact, so he was responding and not just cruising into the collision."

This is why he needs training. W/o training and practice, practice, practice, he will continue to react poorly and have future accidents. You can’t avoid an accident turning the same direction the other vehicle is going. You’re simply altering the intersection point. Somewhat favorable in his end situation, but not where the escape path was.

 

[Madhatter]

I call that guy who was so close he had to see me but didn't , a kamikaze driver . determined to have his way . but this time it wasn't a motorcycle .

 

[Fennellg]

The only two things I can think of are visibility (bright aux lights, and airbag vests.). Some things can’t be avoided. This not a risk free activity. Personally I don’t screw with horn in tense situations. Scrubbing speed and avoiding may have helped but the accident looked inevitable.

 

[Madhatter]

one should use the horn after they dodge the offending auto to let the jerk know how much of an ass wipe he or she is .

 

[Sierra1]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The fact remains, he was lucky.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Airbag vests. You can’t save stupid. Probably 75% of people wearing an airbag vest under their jacket are doing it wrong and don’t have enough space for the vest to deploy w/o injury to themselves.

Back to the incident. Real world I have avoided accidents like this daily on a bike+rider combo nearing 1000 lbs, often equal to or exceeding 2 up packed weight. You don’t start slowing when you see the truck nose. You start reacting and preparing when you see the turn out ahead.

The vests are meant to be worn over the jacket, not under it. I've had mine (Helite) inflate twice, once simply dropping the bike on its side with me rolling away; the other at relatively low speed on a muddy road. The first thought is "I can't breath" because it is confining, and the second thought is "I can't move my neck" before realizing it is also a cervical collar. Can't imagine having it INSIDE of a jacket!
I like the Helite because the replacement cartridges are relatively inexpensive and you can repack it yourself.

Everything below is from a quick set of ChatGPT prompts, giving it the below images. The little white truck first becomes visible as the ET hits 5:09 and the m/c speed slightly reduces as the nose of the big truck goes by within the same second.

The little truck is a Nissan NP200, length 4.5 meters / 14.8 ft
The highway lanes are 3.5 meters,
The double line width is 10-15 cm apart.
ChatGPT used these and accounted for camera distortion making distance appear elongated.
[The distortion made things appear father than they were, which may be another reason you think he had so much time.]

Distance in Photo #1 is over 131 ft. This is first sight of the truck at about 75 kph / 47 mph coming out from behind the bushes.
If the rider started FULL .7g ABS braking at 131 feet from 47 mph, the bike could come to a stop in 105.6 ft, meaning there was only 25 ft of margin.

[I'll note that
1. This doesn't include an initial second to perceive the potential threat before action.
2. Obviously nobody is [hopefully] going to go into full ABS braking at the first sign of every vehicle coming up to the roadway.
3. Totally normal to target fixate on the nose of a moving object, so no surprise he was going right.
4. If he tried to go behind the pickup he still wouldn't make it because he is only one car length away in the third photo.
5. Plus if the truck does stop as it sees him it just moves the impact point, probably into the cab.]

Distance in #2 is 44-50 ft. This is where the nose of the bike begins diving under braking.

Distance in #3 is 16-20 ft.

Calculated impact speed is v=t/d=9m/1s=9m/s=32.4km/h or 20 mph

[1. In my experience, that estimated impact speed sounds pretty accurate so he did brake off more than half his speed. (47 to 20 mph)
2. This is based in the bike remaining literally stuck upright in the wheel well of the truck, the fact the forks hadn't fully collapsed underneath, the wheel not separated, and the relatively short distance they were in the air before hitting the pavement.
3. With the white truck coming out from behind the bushes in that length of time/disance, this accident was not avoidable. For any of us.
4. For those wondering, the slide shows my website and how to make contact.]

Sierra1 has a lot of this kind of experience. Any thoughts?

 

[Sierra1]

I have more experience with this kind of driver, than investigating this type of crash. Most of our bike crashes were single unit and speed, and experience, were the key factors. The FYROW crashes were similar and were all fatalities due to lack of helmet use.

"I" would have gone to the left, not the right. I'm not going to be able to beat him to the apex. Going left lets him, help me, miss him. As soon as I saw him come to the opening, I would have been slowing. I've learned not to trust and assume that I am being seen. I've had this same sort of "aw shit" moment more times than I can count. And at 47mph, I feel confident in getting the big girl slowed enough to not crash because I'm aiming behind him. And ABS allows heavy braking to be combined with steering input. But I don't ride around with two up and loaded, which as has been mentioned, makes a huge difference.

You're right about the distance appearing greater than it is. But I still think the key is the direction he chose to avoid. And did someone say he hit his horn? I can't even remember where my button is and will never be part of my OODA-loop. I'm quite fortunate that I've been riding long enough that my OODA-loop is a little quicker than average. There's a lot of things that I do during a ride that I'm not even thinking about. Like going from O to A in the loop because O & D are automatic. Muscle memory is what your body does when the brain shuts off. Do something enough times, and there is no thought required.

Yeah, this sounds cocky as hell, but every time I ride, I am actively looking and expecting this type of thing to happen. Because it's gonna happen. Sooner or later my "loop" will slow down, and it will be time to sit on the porch and talk about the good ol' days.