Davesax36
Active Member
Could the weird sag have anything to do with not resetting it before install? I think probably not, but any idea is a good idea at the beginning, right?
My Re-Spring of the S10 ES Shock
- Thread starter Karl
- Start date
Good question, but I don't think it has any effect. I believe the reset appropriately cycles the DC motor to ensure that the shock preload and sensor are set to single rider.Davesax36 said:
A fault is generated if the motor and suspension don't match. I know that the shock was set to 2 up when I sent it (according to the console display). It apparently was set to something else upon return which caused the fault. Doing the reset after I got it back should have things in sync.
I say all of this freely admitting a general lack of suspension expertise that is exponentially diminished when one introduces ES to the equation. I do know that an 850 lb. spring on my Gen1 Penske shock gives me the desired 65mm of preload. How that relates to ES is a mystery to me ....
Perhaps one of our more versed members can offer some additional insight.
Davesax36
Active Member
At some point I would think that just having a heavy spring would change the sag anyway. I'm interested to see what racetech says.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
I'm kind of surprised Race Tech went with a 600lb/in spring. I'm no lightweight but the 8" long 550lb/in spring that Karl identified with the 10mm spacer to make it the same overall length as the OEM puts my fat ass (230lb without gear) right in the middle of the correct sag with no luggage and one-up.
Would the length of the spring change the sag number Jeff?
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
Yeah, but there's a number of factors to consider. With springs, all other factors held constant (wire thickness and coil diameter) a longer spring will be softer. Ways to make a softer spring is to lengthen it with the same coil spacing and pitch use thinner wire, or larger diameter coil. When I fitted my 550lb/in spring I counted the coils and noted there was one less turn than the OEM. Wire diameter measured the same, so the higher rate is due to using a bit less wire, even if the free length was pretty close to the OEM. To do this of course the spacing or pitch between the coils is slightly larger. An efficient way to manufacture different rate springs is to wind them all with the same wire, coil pitch and diameter, and then just cut them to different lengths and then use different length spacers to make them fit. Shorter is stiffer, longer is softer in this case.
-Jeff
-Jeff
Shock is on the way back to RT for another spring. I didn't ask what the replacement will be.
I'll update when it is returned to me.
I'll update when it is returned to me.
Karl
Active Member
It seems odd that you had poor sag measurements with the 600lb spring, my bet would be that the initial compression set of the spring was low compared to my set up, or the adjuster is not up to compressing the spring. You can see it "wind on" the preload (with the bike running of course) and see how much stroke.
I understand your confusion Karl. It confuses me also.
RT said they made an error in their calculations and that the correct spring will be on the shock when it comes back this time.
Hope to have more info and a ride impression soon.
RT said they made an error in their calculations and that the correct spring will be on the shock when it comes back this time.
Hope to have more info and a ride impression soon.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
Maybe it was installed with too little or no initial pre-load?
-Jeff
-Jeff
Karl
Active Member
I measured the full length of the stroke on my ES pre-loader this morning (from 1up to 2up with luggage). It is about 11mm (just under 0.5inch) but is hard to measure accurately. When you get it back, check that your stroke is about the same as mine so we can verify a 600lb/inch spring will work with it.
BTW, I just marked it with a start mark with a sharpie in the fully uncompressed state.
Good Luck.
BTW, I just marked it with a start mark with a sharpie in the fully uncompressed state.
Good Luck.
My sag numbers with the first spring were 22mm over the same range.
I used this setup to measure. The laser makes it easy and accurate as long as everything is secure enough to prevent movement between measurements.
I used this setup to measure. The laser makes it easy and accurate as long as everything is secure enough to prevent movement between measurements.
Yesterday, I changed my spring. I'm 300lbs and had about 90mm of sag while set to 2up luggage. Just me with side bags on but very little in them. 59mm is the target. Now I'm right in the ball park set between 1up luggage and 2up. I used a 600lb spring. The motor has no problem adjusting preload. Haven't ridden it much so far, but it feels way better.
Got a return shipping notice from RT yesterday. Won't be here till Monday 4/4.
Spaggy said:
Whose spring did you use? Did you add a collar?
Karl
Active Member
That is good news, did you use my design?Spaggy said:
Mine is back and the sag numbers are dead on.
65mm when set to solo w/o luggage. Sag range over the four standard settings is 21mm. No error messages probably because I set the shock to 1up, no luggage before removing it this time around. The servo adjusted to all four settings without incident.
The new spring is 851lbs. (SRSP 5815152). Stoltec used an 850 lb. spring for my gen1 bike and it works well.
The new collar they installed is 75mm long and concerned me when I first saw it. A discussion with one of the technicians at RT helped me understand that the ES shock only has an 89mm stroke. The installed spring compresses to 120mm before binding, so there is no issue.
It was about 20 here this morning, and the weather doesn't look great for the rest of the week. I'll update with riding impressions as soon as I can get out.
65mm when set to solo w/o luggage. Sag range over the four standard settings is 21mm. No error messages probably because I set the shock to 1up, no luggage before removing it this time around. The servo adjusted to all four settings without incident.
The new spring is 851lbs. (SRSP 5815152). Stoltec used an 850 lb. spring for my gen1 bike and it works well.
The new collar they installed is 75mm long and concerned me when I first saw it. A discussion with one of the technicians at RT helped me understand that the ES shock only has an 89mm stroke. The installed spring compresses to 120mm before binding, so there is no issue.
It was about 20 here this morning, and the weather doesn't look great for the rest of the week. I'll update with riding impressions as soon as I can get out.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
Good deal, but I am somewhat astounded at the 850 lb/in rate though...
I don't know what to say Jeff. On the one hand, 850lbs. works for the gen1, on the other hand, it is a big jump from stock on our ES machines.
Without testing, I must defer to the folks at RT who are obviously better versed in the intricacies of suspension than I. I know that this is their first Gen2 and also know that they have lots of experience with ES systems on other bikes.
I hope to get out for a ride later this week and can share more then.
Without testing, I must defer to the folks at RT who are obviously better versed in the intricacies of suspension than I. I know that this is their first Gen2 and also know that they have lots of experience with ES systems on other bikes.
I hope to get out for a ride later this week and can share more then.
WJBertrand
Ventura Highway
I will be very interested in your road test results. I'm probably about 250 lbs fully geared up and the 550 Lb/in spring put me right at about 25% of travel set at one rider no luggage and all of my luggage removed.regulator said: