Manual CCT and wow what a difference.

[snakebitten]

1 1/2 turns of loosening and nary a change in sound. And NO hint of "clatter", indicating you did not let it get uncomfortably loose for even a second.

Good info. If nothing else it should let folks know there is some margin in there between too tight and too loose.

Having said that, part of me wants to be on the loose side of tight enough, rather than the tight side of loose enough. lol
Maybe I'm wrong, but it would seem to offer additional chain life.

My instinct is influenced by that same chain saw analogy. I love how my chain saw chains cut and last when I have them on the loose side of tight. No slop and no rattle, but smooooooth.

 

[jbrown]

There are two reasons manufacturers went to auto cam chain adjusters: incorrect adjustment and dimensional changes with temperature.
Too tight can wear the chain more quickly, but it can also wear the cam bearings more quickly, just like having a drive chain too tight can mess up your wheel bearings. So you don't want to err on the tight side.
Converting to a manual adjuster from an auto requires some experience or guesswork, since there is no factory adjustment procedure for the bike.
I think you should be paying attention to the adjustment at operating temperature, since that's where the most use will be. Then you just have to take what you get when the engine's cold. Some designs may be too tight when cold, and some may be too loose. I don't know what to expect with the Tenere, but it has a pretty long chain, so there could be a significant hot/cold difference.

 

[Mark R.]

There are two reasons manufacturers went to auto cam chain adjusters: incorrect adjustment and dimensional changes with temperature.
Too tight can wear the chain more quickly, but it can also wear the cam bearings more quickly, just like having a drive chain too tight can mess up your wheel bearings. So you don't want to err on the tight side.
Converting to a manual adjuster from an auto requires some experience or guesswork, since there is no factory adjustment procedure for the bike.
I think you should be paying attention to the adjustment at operating temperature, since that's where the most use will be. Then you just have to take what you get when the engine's cold. Some designs may be too tight when cold, and some may be too loose. I don't know what to expect with the Tenere, but it has a pretty long chain, so there could be a significant hot/cold difference.

I'm going to respectfully disagree. They went to automatic CCT's so maintenance would be simpler. If there were a big difference in hot / cold temps, the ACCT would be just as bad or worse than the MCCT, because once slack is taken up, the ACCT does not release. It stands to reason that the hot / cold difference is not that great. The key with the MCCT is just like Snakebitten stated - just keep it in that very large middle zone between too tight and too loose, and you will be good to go. I believe that a MCCT ultimately provides less wear and less tension against the cam bearings and the cam chain, because it is not always trying to tighten everything, and not ratcheting up the tightness whenever it can.

Mark R.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[jbrown]

I'm basing my statement on patents for auto cam chain tensioners. The two reasons I mentioned were stated as reasons for the invention in the half dozen or so patents I looked at. Certainly, the bike makers could have some other reasons. But there is so little effort in an occasional cam chain adjustment, that I am not convinced simplifying maintenance was the driving force. I could be wrong

 

[Mark R.]

Well, certainly an automatic cam chain tensioner eliminates the potential for human error on the part of the owner or service technician. In my experience, I don't like them. They are a common failure point on many motorcycles, and I have MCCT's on my DR-650, Drz 400, and Super Tenere. But I am a hyper-maintainer of my motorcycles, and I enjoy working on them, so a MCCT is an upgrade for me because of the extra reliability. The extra attention they require is not a hardship.

I'm skeptical of the hot / cold justification, because the typical ACCT moves one way - tighter - and seems to have no ability to adjust back and forth for this supposed hot / cold difference in chain length and chain tension.

Mark R.
Albuquerque, NM

 

[Stoned]

"But I am a hyper-maintainer of my motorcycles, and I enjoy working on them, so a MCCT is an upgrade for me because of the extra reliability. The extra attention they require is not a hardship."

This is me also, but the last bikes I had with Manual CCT were back in the late seventies, early eighties and I did not work on them then. I have learned a lot over the years and mostly by jumping in and just doing it. I feel pretty good about the
MCCT and will keep an eye ( and an ear) on it for any changes. One way or another, I will know more next year, than I do this year.

 

[snakebitten]

The "manual" effort of a manual cam chain tensioner is less effort than washing the Beast.
Or even changing the oil.
About equal to airing up the tires.

And far less frequent than any of those various tasks.

The only real negative I see applies to both the auto and the manual tensioners; you must be DILIGANT when installing one in this motor.

 

[HeliMoto]

Hi All
I'm looking to upgrade my 2014 S10 to the Graves unit, can anyone tell me where is the best place to buy one ?
Direct from Graves ? Or is there any place that offers at a discount price ?
Is the 09-16 R1 unit p/n Model: CMY-13R1-PCT the correct item ?
Thx in advance

 

[HeliMoto]

...Just ordered one from Revzilla, $135 & free shipping, that's 10% off Graves price of $149.99
Prob as good as it gets, Revzilla is a First class vendor

 

[Ossaboy2867]

When I installed the graves unit, I only used my fingers to adjust the tension until my oil covered fingers couldn't twist it no more. Did this after the valve shim job. Should be fine, as the stock unit kept the chain extremely tight, though replaced it due to the possibility of failure.

 

[Scrogs10]

I think I may have broken my S10.
I fitted a new Ape CCT.
I put the bike at TDC with the K pointing up as I wasn't sure where is was meant to line up with but it felt like it was TDC on the compression.
I wedged a socket in behind the cam chain to keep the tension. then when I backed out the allen bolts holding the oe tensioner in place. I did hear a twang like the spring had released.
I fitted the Ape CCT with difficulty due to access over frame rails but got it in there tightened up. I then wound up the tension bolt until I could feel the pressure on the chain. Then turned engine over with socket bar a few times.

Put the clutch cover back on and pushed the starter. it cranked and fired but did not start.

I'm thinking the chain may have slipped. Hopefully no other damage but what do I do now ?

 

[Checkswrecks]

You only have two paths. Either start taking it apart and hope you didn't bend a valve, or take it to somebody.

 

[WJBertrand]

Yup, that "twang" you heard was one of the cams jumping out of time. NEVER try to start an engine after suspecting that. If you're lucky maybe you didn't bend a valve.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jaeger22]

I think I may have broken my S10

Sorry to hear that, I know well the sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach about now.
You may have bent a valve but I think there is a good chance you are OK. I would not think the cam would have slipped very many teeth, not enough to cause valve/piston love, but the only way to know for sure is to open it up. The bad news is that either way you will need to jump into the valve adjustment procedure. Not to adjust the valves, although you should check them while you have them exposed, but to re-align the cams. That is just part of the procedure to adjust the valves. You should also be able to see if any are bent and not closing.
If you feel confident enough in your mechanical skills to do a valve adjustment you should be OK. Just make sure you have a manual.
Or as stated above, you will need to take it to a mechanic.
Good luck,
John

 

[Scrogs10]

Thanks for the replies so far.
I took the bike apart yesterday to check the valve timing marks. They don't make easy do they.
Very tight access getting things out and almost impossible getting cam cover back in with gaskets in place. I had to remove the wiring loom to give enough clearance over the cams. Plus Yamaha put the timing marks on the outer edge of pulleys so you also have to remove the electrics to have a look.

The good news is all of the marks top and bottom lined up as per manual. The bad news is it still doesn't start. It turns over and pops like its trying to fire but not much else.

What I also don't know is how tight should the cam chain be. Its now manual so can I over tighten it ? I cant do the usual listen for rattle and adjust as bike is not running.

I'm on the edge of taking it in to a local indi.

 

[Dogdaze]

Are the wires back where they are supposed to be, I mention this as a few who have done their valves, mis-wired the coils with some other..... worth a look.

 

[BaldKnob]

Scrogs could be having the hard-start issue. If you're positive about timing, wiring and fuel, remove the FI fuse, crank to clear the cylinders then retry. Got ether? Worth a shot, or two.

 

[Scrogs10]

Funny you say that.
I small issue when 're attaching all my wires.
I had labelled all of them but when I went to reattach them I couldn't see any writing .
So the plug thing had crossed my mind as I put them back as they lay in the loom assuming they fire two and two.
The hard start also came to mind but I didn't fancy trying the WOT with other potential things going on. May try the fuse trick.
Thanks .

 

[Harm]

Maybe a stupid remark, but did you check the kill switch position?

 

[Checkswrecks]

We've had more than a couple of people check the valves and then get a couple of wiring connectors mixed up, resulting in no-start.