Klim Adventure Rally Jacket - insulation?

The Mountain

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I've been eyeing this jacket for a while, but something (other than the witheringly high price) bothers me about it. The jacket is supposed to be the be-all end-all of Adventure jackets, and I have seen it listed as a "four season" jacket on various gear websites. But I can't find anything that talks about insulation for riding in cold weather. Does anyone here know if it comes with some kind of cold-weather liner? Or would I have to drop a couple hundred more on one of Klim's separate insulated underjackets?
 

EricV

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If you're concerned about cold weather riding, forget about insulated liners and buy a heated jacket liner from Warm and Safe along with a Heat-Troller. Klim is in Idaho, but and they sell snow machine gear too, but I haven't seen any included insulation layer for any of their riding gear except the Kodiak, (and I'm not positive about that, as the descriptions on the Klim website and the Revzilla site differ w/no mention of the insulated liner being included on the Revzilla site). They do not list any liner for the Adventure Rally. I've never seen a Klim jacket with an included removable liner. You need to remember that the Klim mentality is day rides, not multi-day travel.

Do you crash a lot? Do you enjoy riding extreme trails off road where the potential for drops and crashes is high?

If the answer is no, why are you looking at the Adventure Rally? I've put over 100k on a Klim Latitude and over 100k on a Aerostich Darien. Granted I bought the Darien in '05 and the Latitude in '13, so not the current generations of those jackets. All the Klim gear with chest armor is overkill for riders that mostly do pavement and gravel roads, imho. It just adds bulk and weight to the jacket. If you can't go try them on yourself, you might consider ordering what ever 'top end' jacket you like and one of the lower price point versions from them and comparing yourself in your own home, then sending what you didn't prefer back for a return. Obviously you can't ride with them and still return them, but comparing side by side will tell you a lot about fit, weight and comfort.
 

Eville Rich

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I think Klim deliberately doesn't do liners. The idea is that you do the layers. Whether you use their other clothing for doing that layering is up to you. In that context I'm not sure what Klim means by four seasons, though the kit can certainly be used year 'round.

Personally, I think layering is better than liners when it comes to cold weather riding. It's easier to put on or take off a layer through a day than deal with a liner. I've got an older Klim Blade jacket that is fine down to 25 F with the right layers (no heated gear, other than grips). Probably fine colder, but my hands start to complain. I'd be more concerned about that heavy jacket in the heat than the cold.

Eville Rich
2016 S10
 

Mak10

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I also have a Klim Latitude jacket. I prefer to layer under the jacket. One of my favorite layers is a down puffer jacket. Nice when cold and easy to take off and compress down to about nothing when packed. Much easier than a liner.
 

fac191

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I wear heated liners or layers depending on the cold. Always wear full length back protection and a chest guard both Forcefield.
 

The Mountain

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...
Do you crash a lot? Do you enjoy riding extreme trails off road where the potential for drops and crashes is high?

If the answer is no, why are you looking at the Adventure Rally? I've put over 100k on a Klim Latitude and over 100k on a Aerostich Darien. Granted I bought the Darien in '05 and the Latitude in '13, so not the current generations of those jackets. All the Klim gear with chest armor is overkill for riders that mostly do pavement and gravel roads, imho. It just adds bulk and weight to the jacket. If you can't go try them on yourself, you might consider ordering what ever 'top end' jacket you like and one of the lower price point versions from them and comparing yourself in your own home, then sending what you didn't prefer back for a return. Obviously you can't ride with them and still return them, but comparing side by side will tell you a lot about fit, weight and comfort.
But what if the answer to your question is "yes"?

I'm looking at the Rally because I am planning ahead for riding through the Himalayas in India, on narrow single-lane road surfaces with very poor pavement, mud, large jagged rocks, loose sand, landslides, frigid mountain rivers, and semi-insane heavy truck drivers, over many days of continuous riding. The weather up in those mountains even in the summer is unpredictable, and can swing from temps in the 60s and 70s to below freezing due to both shifts in the atmosphere and from elevation over a period of hours or even minutes. Rain and snow are not uncommon at any time of year.

So yes, I do need a legitimate expedition-quality riding jacket as I am not going to be going on chaperoned tours or midlife-crisis vacations where I can just pull in to the local Marriott if I get too cold or tired, or draw a new jacket from the support van if mine tears or breaks a zipper. One of the biggest problems I see other riders having when they do rides up into Ladakh and Himachal Pradesh is lack of preparation. Despite feedback from so many people who had done similar rides in the past and documented the challenges they faced, I see so many people still underestimating the effects of cold, or not having proper waterproof gear, or trying to stay focused while riding in subzero temps at elevations over 15,000 feet. Having been in the Service, I know the value of preparation, and of having the right gear for the job. So I know I need a very high-quality riding jacket that is designed with actual world-crossing travel in mind, instead of just looking the part. I have to be able to count on it not to fall apart or fail to perform properly, because I'm not going to be somewhere where I can just ship the thing back to the vendor for a warranty issue.
 
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fac191

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Dont matter what lining you have it will not out perform heated liners.
 

EricV

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You're being fooled by the marketing hype. You need to be expedition ready, no jacket is. And honestly, you're way over thinking it. That you even used the word "vest" tells me you don't have any experience with heated clothing. And fine, I see what you want, but that's not what you need. I too have military experience. And about 400k miles of riding experience, including over a decade of endurance motorcycle rallying experience, plus am a finisher in the IBR. When I finished that, more people had been in space then had finished the Iron Butt Rally. It's not extreme in the same sense as riding rural India, (been there), but you're riding 20 hour days, 11 days in a row, in all weather and on and off pavement on a daily basis. It's no cake walk.

If you want to layer instead of go with electric clothing, that's a personal choice. No harm, no foul. Potentially of more concern in realistic terms is not a gear failure, but if the bike you're riding can support the power draw. Eliminating that potential by choosing not to use it checks that off the 'what if' list. Look hard at merino wool.

I am planning ahead for riding through the Himalayas in India, on narrow single-lane road surfaces with very poor pavement, mud, large jagged rocks, loose sand, landslides, frigid mountain rivers, and semi-insane heavy truck drivers, over many days of continuous riding. The weather up in those mountains even in the summer is unpredictable, and can swing from temps in the 60s and 70s to below freezing due to both shifts in the atmosphere and from elevation over a period of hours or even minutes. Rain and snow are not uncommon at any time of year.
So, pretty much like anywhere else when you keep riding regardless of conditions. :eek: ;) Are you an idiot? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, you're not. So you're going to use some common sense and caution in conditions that get a little hairy. Your speeds are going to be lower and you're going to pay attention. India sucks in high density city riding. It's nuts and get a loud horn, because that's how you tell other road users you are coming around. There is no lane usage, even buses and trucks go all over the entire road to navigate or pass. Down South, it's a little calmer, but you're going to be way far away from large cities for most of your riding.

In Peru conditions changed quickly, and what happened the last few days might bite you too, with washed out roads or high water coming out of the mountains still. I did a water crossing that had basketball size rocks jumping out of the water and the water was about 16" deep and very fast flowing. I has real concerns that if one of those fast moving rocks hit my wheel at the wrong time it would wash the bike out from under me and I'd go down, then quickly get sent down stream and over a 20' falls into boulders. What did I do? I waited for 4 hours until the rocks jumping thru the water were only baseball sized, then crossed it. Missed a train due to that and some road construction, but it was the safe thing to do. Frigging busses were being pushed from one side of the 'road' to the other in that water. It was fine by the time I crossed it, but still made you pay attention. I was riding a Honda falcon 400 enduro bike. Solid machine and you could get parts anywhere if need be. I wore the Darien on that trip, along with regular riding boots and the rest of the gear. I wish I'd had my ADV boots, but trying to pack and ship all your gear, (x2), in a seabag limits you. I did not ship a bike, just rented one there.

I get 'dressing for the crash'. I'm an ATGATT rider for a long time. I'm out on a ride today in Alabama, riding 150cc scooters on a 450 mile over night ride. Just poking along and having fun, back roads, gravel roads, some two lane highway and sure, some crazy drivers not paying attention too. I'm still wearing my Klim latitude jacket and armored pants, modular helmet, gloves and riding boots.

Spending a metric ton of cash on a jacket won't make you any safer. As far as more comfortable, a solid goretex jacket with good venting and modern armor that is comfortable to wear goes a long way. As I said before, you need to put various versions on and wear them for a while to compare them. Maybe a ride to Rigby, ID will help you since they have the entire line available in the showroom there and sell their stuff there too. (yes, I have been there) You don't need to be a Klim fanboi either, consider what works and how you use your gear. I hate their leg zippers on the pants. Too short. You have to take your boots off to get the pants off. That's a no bueno for me. I get to my camping place and I'm shucking gloves, helmet, jacket and pants, then getting busy with the tent ASAP. Sometimes in the rain or worse, so I'll leave the pants on. Sometimes in heat and after a hot day riding. To be able to shuck the pants too and move around in my LDComfort base layer with my boots on works very well for me. I don't want to have to pull a pannier off so I can sit down and more easily remove boots and get pants off before either putting on some other foot wear or putting my boots back on. Depending on how light you're packing and what set up you have, consider that reality. Consider what you're prioritizing when you stop for the day and what activities you'll be doing.

Don't be fooled that buying the most expensive gear available is somehow the same as buying the best gear for you. It's not. Maybe what works best for you will be the most expensive, but often that's not the case at all. Often you'll be packing more weight, less comfortable in a more restrictive jacket and living with limitations that you didn't think about before you just pulled the trigger on what looked so cool online and had great marketing hype.

I don't know your time line. But I strongly suggest what ever gear you take on your trip is gear you've been wearing for a while already and are used to.
 

fac191

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I use Gerbing liners. As well as heated they are windproof too. So even if they fail they will be as good as another layer you may have on give or take. Also you start going up into mountains it can get cold quick so you cant beat heated gear for convenience just turn it up. And you cant wear anything warmer.
 

Cycledude

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Well I am a Klim Latitude owner, in my opinion the no included liner thing sucks big time , yes I do have a very nice heated Gerbing liner to use but I would definitely prefer the Klim came with it’s own liner.
I don’t know anything about the model your interested in but have to say the Latitude leaks More cold air than any other jacket I’ve ever owned and thats with all the vents closed.
Overall I like the Klim but most Likely won’t choose To use it much below freezing .
 

The Mountain

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You're being fooled by the marketing hype. You need to be expedition ready, no jacket is. And honestly, you're way over thinking it. That you even used the word "vest" tells me you don't have any experience with heated clothing. And fine, I see what you want, but that's not what you need. I too have military experience. And about 400k miles of riding experience, including over a decade of endurance motorcycle rallying experience, plus am a finisher in the IBR. When I finished that, more people had been in space then had finished the Iron Butt Rally. It's not extreme in the same sense as riding rural India, (been there), but you're riding 20 hour days, 11 days in a row, in all weather and on and off pavement on a daily basis. It's no cake walk.
It's not about marketing. I'm not only considering the Rally. I just asked about that particular jacket because Klim in general is apparently regarded as at the upper end of the gear spectrum, and I have read good things about the jacket but wanted to understand the absence of insulation. And why wouldn't I use the word "vest" when talking about heated gear? It's one of the most common types, going back to Widder (or further). Sure they make full-sleeve liners now, and gloves and socks and jockstraps and who knows what else. The point about heated gear stands; it adds complexity and creates dependence, and if it does fail it sets you back. I'm not really concerned about price, more about performance, and I am willing to pay more to get the best tool for the job. It may be that my next post is asking about BMW's jackets. I don't really care who makes it. You're making a lot of assumptions on what I "need" vs "want", and about me as well. One thing I don't "need" or "want" is a lecture; valid information about a product is one thing, but telling me you know what's good for me isn't going to go over well. You did the IBR? Great. Days and days of highway travel, or *maybe* a gravel road here and there. So what. I've done long days too. You didn't get off to a great start when you assumed I was only ever planning to ride highway tours and the occasional fire road. You're not improving your position appreciably.

So, pretty much like anywhere else when you keep riding regardless of conditions. :eek: ;) Are you an idiot? I'm going to go out on a limb and say no, you're not. So you're going to use some common sense and caution in conditions that get a little hairy. Your speeds are going to be lower and you're going to pay attention. India sucks in high density city riding. It's nuts and get a loud horn, because that's how you tell other road users you are coming around. There is no lane usage, even buses and trucks go all over the entire road to navigate or pass. Down South, it's a little calmer, but you're going to be way far away from large cities for most of your riding.
I lived in India for four years, so I am well aware of the traffic situation there. Riding speeds up in the Himalayas are going to be even lower than the lowland speeds anyway, and I never said I was going to be taking unnecessary chances. But at the same time, you have to take into consideration that sometimes the situation just doesn't get better. Your Peruvian water crossing was a momentary situation that could be waited out. On the Leh-Manali highway, there are crossings like that which are more or less permanent. There are also constant landslides, so the road is always being cleared somewhere, and those slides don't generally happen on the level, wide stretches. They happen on the steep narrow segments halfway up the side of the mountain, so you get the bus on one side and the 1000-foot drop on the other, in mud, on a 10% grade.


I get 'dressing for the crash'. I'm an ATGATT rider for a long time. I'm out on a ride today in Alabama, riding 150cc scooters on a 450 mile over night ride. Just poking along and having fun, back roads, gravel roads, some two lane highway and sure, some crazy drivers not paying attention too. I'm still wearing my Klim latitude jacket and armored pants, modular helmet, gloves and riding boots.

Spending a metric ton of cash on a jacket won't make you any safer. As far as more comfortable, a solid goretex jacket with good venting and modern armor that is comfortable to wear goes a long way. As I said before, you need to put various versions on and wear them for a while to compare them. Maybe a ride to Rigby, ID will help you since they have the entire line available in the showroom there and sell their stuff there too. (yes, I have been there) You don't need to be a Klim fanboi either, consider what works and how you use your gear. I hate their leg zippers on the pants. Too short. You have to take your boots off to get the pants off. That's a no bueno for me. I get to my camping place and I'm shucking gloves, helmet, jacket and pants, then getting busy with the tent ASAP. Sometimes in the rain or worse, so I'll leave the pants on. Sometimes in heat and after a hot day riding. To be able to shuck the pants too and move around in my LDComfort base layer with my boots on works very well for me. I don't want to have to pull a pannier off so I can sit down and more easily remove boots and get pants off before either putting on some other foot wear or putting my boots back on. Depending on how light you're packing and what set up you have, consider that reality. Consider what you're prioritizing when you stop for the day and what activities you'll be doing.

Don't be fooled that buying the most expensive gear available is somehow the same as buying the best gear for you. It's not. Maybe what works best for you will be the most expensive, but often that's not the case at all. Often you'll be packing more weight, less comfortable in a more restrictive jacket and living with limitations that you didn't think about before you just pulled the trigger on what looked so cool online and had great marketing hype.
I am not considering the Klim just because it's the most expensive and therefore must be the safest or because it "looks cool". I'm considering it because IF it's the safest and most effective solution THEN I'm willing to pay to get it. If it's not, then it's not. But again, the OP question was "why doesn't it come with some kind of insulation?" not "hey this jacket looks really cool should I buy it?" I already have an "okay" jacket, made by FirstGear. It's waterproof, has decent ventilation and armor, DOES have an insulated liner that works pretty darn well, and has lots of pockets to carry "stuff" in. But, it has it's problems too. The velcro on the pockets isn't sewn really solidly, and the velcro is slowly shredding itself, and the "hydration pack" on the back just hangs from the seams of the jacket so it pulls the garment off you if the bladder is full. It's my understanding that e.g. the Klim has an internal harness that helps redistribute the load of the jacket, armor, and hydration so everything stays where it's supposed to. This is a valuable characteristic to me. You really seem to have come into this with a bunch of (mostly wrong) preconceived notions about A) what you know about me, B) what you think I based my thinking off of, and C) the relative value of your opinion. That you have a fair amount of riding experience: fine, and you might have some useful observations to make. But approaching the question I asked from the position that you must know better than I, and that I am some rank beginner with no common sense or understanding of motorcycling or the state of motorcycling apparel today so you're going to tell me what's what is not going to win you any kind of favorable consideration.

I don't know your time line. But I strongly suggest what ever gear you take on your trip is gear you've been wearing for a while already and are used to.
Well, duh. Why do you think I'm asking about this now instead of a week before I head out?
 
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ballisticexchris

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I've been eyeing this jacket for a while, but something (other than the witheringly high price) bothers me about it. The jacket is supposed to be the be-all end-all of Adventure jackets, and I have seen it listed as a "four season" jacket on various gear websites. But I can't find anything that talks about insulation for riding in cold weather. Does anyone here know if it comes with some kind of cold-weather liner? Or would I have to drop a couple hundred more on one of Klim's separate insulated underjackets?
I recommend Smart Wool for a liner material. Heated gear is just something to fail in the extreme riding conditions you will be encountering. I am running with the Klim Badlands. Very durable and blocks the wind as well as great venting when hot.

Something the other posters have not considered is what if for some reason you break down and are left stranded in high altitude cold. That heated gear will be worth nothing more than a fire starter. The wool will keep you warm on and off the bike so you will pack less gear.

One thing that I found works really well for the feet is Smart Wool thin ankle socks with a thicker rider sock over them. I have ridden in pretty darn cold temps (in Yellowstone while snowing) at speed and my feet are always toasty warm. If I forget to put the thin wool ankle socks on then my toes freeze.
 
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ballisticexchris

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I simply like simple , Darian jacket works . looked at Klim tried it on , was heavy . I will keep my Darian . layer what you will .
I have never tried the Aerostitch products but would not hesitate. Main reason for me getting the Klim Badlands was because local dealer and military discount. I have also come to really like the built in bladder.

Downside to my gear is the weight. All my gear with full water bladder comes in at 30lbs.
 
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ballisticexchris

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[Content deleted - CW]

I surly hope you will share your experiences on a ride of a lifetime. While I have not done that kind of traveling, I have a bit of experience with extreme all day rock crawling and hard core single track.

You are definitely on the right track by researching opinions of others. Main thing I would suggest is to test out your gear before your trip. Try out some different configurations. I have always carried a water bladder on my back since my mountain bike days. When seated the extra weight of my riding gear disappears.

Another added advantage of wool is it lasts without getting smelly. You can reverse the underwear, socks, and shirts to get 2 or 3 days of riding out of each set. If you get hot you simply open up the vents of your jacket/pants. The water retention of wool will help to regulate your body temperature. It also insulates when wet to retain body heat. The big disadvantage is it is not durable. It tears easily. I have found Smart Wool to be the most durable.

You cannot go wrong with any of the choices of high end gear the other members have suggested. I personally like the Gortex as it blocks cold wind amazingly.

One other thing that has nothing to do with riding gear but your lighting setup. Make sure you extensively test out your bike and electrical for long day miles before before your trip. Get to know your bike and find all the fused components and carry spares.
 
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