Is this political? I don’t know - POLL ADDED

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Madhatter

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buda texas
so far a healthy debate ..... that's what's missing in American politics . there is no debate just screaming the other side down . the liberal democrats now have control , lets see what they do with it . what ever happens its their baby . who can they blame 2 years from now if it goes bad , they will find somebody I'm betting ..... but it now belongs to them ,all of it . they can change the rules to simple majority and run amuck with our lives . but its their baby their record their will on display . the history of democratic control of cities and states does not bode well for the average citizen . now they own the whole pie , I hope its not to bitter.
 

fac191

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London
It cant really be good for your society as a whole to be governed by people who lean too far to the right. We know this from our experience of it . Then someone comes in and wants it their way. You cant really progress that way as a society. We have suffered way too much from that ourselves.
 

Eville Rich

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Sep 15, 2016
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464
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Wisconsin, USA
Sorry if this is going to be viewed as overly political, but I don't cotton to a healthy debate when the debate is about the relative merits of drinking poison.

I'm less concerned with party politics than the growth of right wing ideology based on absolute propaganda and misinformation. It's been going on in a very deliberate way for 20+ years in the U.S. We're observing the outcome. The most absurd group is the Q Anon folks, which our Pres seems to love. The dangerous ones are the chest thumpers like Proud Boys and 3 Percenters. The true believers (read Eric Hoffer if you haven't) can't have a meaningful discussion without getting absurd or all high and mighty. The vast majority of the U.S. is quite reasonable and interested in actual solutions to actual problems. It's not left vs right or Republican vs Democratic. It's an issue of fascism that's been nurtured through a deliberate encouragement of ignorance and objection to science and facts that don't fit the narrative they want.

The fascists are a diverse mix. Christian Dominionists, white power folks, people who feel powerless and want to find a way for "revenge" or just to put others under their thumb. While I didn't experience it directly, my family (including my father and uncle when kids), were forced to house German soldiers during WWII in the Netherlands. I know the survival stories and what was done to keep people alive. For me, anything that remotely smacks of authoritarianism or putting one group down, or another up, is of no interest. Yeah, I'm proudly anti-fascist. And most in the U.S. are. The right wing has tried to turn that phrase on it's head as a negative. I'm proud to own it and take it back.

The actions at the Capitol and those who support them actively or passively are weak people who saw their cling to power being taken away via democracy. It's a tantrum. Screw them. They need a time out in a small room. For those that want to discuss solutions to things we can agree are issues, I'm very open. Tired meme-based positioning and completely false or misleading information.

Eville Rich
2016 S10
 

Longdog Cymru

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Jul 21, 2018
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Swansea, Wales, UK
Seems like a lot of replies from Trump supporters on here but not much from the left? Is this forum generally right wing as far as the US is concerned? What are the freedoms that you are concerned about losing now that Trump is going? We had a similar concern in the UK which led to Brexit which it turns out lost us many more freedoms than we have now. Freedom to work live and love anywhere in 27 nations of Europe is just one of them


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Yes, there are a lot of Trump’s audience on here, however, there are also a lot of normal, rational people on here as well. In U.K., the likes of Johnson and Farage appealed to a particular sector of U.K. citizens and, after being fed a tissue of lies, the majority voted to leave. I don’t think any one of those who votes to leave understood exactly how much the EU has done for us. Johnson and Farage went around the country with an fictionional figure painted on the side of a bus. The reality of it was that the EU paid for road improvements, it helped under-privileged towns, villages and societies and provided free milk for every school child in U.K. Make no mistake, Johnson and his Court of Clowns will nail us to the wall while they sit back on their personal fortunes, (Rees-Mogg has a personal fortune of £150,000,000 and off shore banking companies and he isn’t the richest member of Cabinet), each and every one of them born with a silver spoon firmly inserted in their mouths. Right now, 80% of fish caught in and around the U.K. are exported to the EU, except that post-Brexit, there are a lot of fish going into land-fill because Boris has tied us up in red-tape. Look on eBay, many foreign traders won’t send goods to the U.K. because they now have to register with HMRC, (Her Majestirs Customs and Excise) and pay tax to the U.K. We are in the middle of a total shit storm because people were lied to, misled and couldn’t be bothered to understand.
 

Sierra1

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Ok, here we go. . . . pure opinion from here on. . . . with some facts. . . . our freedoms will not disappear overnight. Slowly, bit, by bit. The frog in the frying pan thing. But, where our country is standing now in the world theater is going to change quickly. Apple has already eliminated Parlor, because they don't agree with what people talk about on there. Trump has already been banned permanently from Facebook, and Twitter. Just social media. . . . no biggie. . . . when a leader of a country gets banned from exercising his 1st Amendment rights, along with "regular joes". . . . where does it stop. This is why there was an attempt to limit tech giants.

Back when blm & antifa were literally tearing the country down, and lighting it on fire. . . . it was called "good trouble". W.T.F? And, I won't even start about why that started. . . . I already offended a few on here with that previous conversation. But, now, the "right" is offended. . . . and do their own march. . . . and it's a riot. . . . an insurrection. . . .without even closely matching the devastation. I'm not saying the persons that illegally enter the capitol were right, but if you see more video than the media presents, they were an extremely small part of the crowd that was present. Even when the media showed video later in the day, the LE line, and the protestor lines were maintaining social distance. Whereas the videos from the "good trouble", show protestors screaming within inches of LE faces.

Trump is not a person that I would probably ever drink a beer with. He's a typical rich arrogant egomaniac. But, as a president. . . . he's exactly what this country needed. Stock market: record highs. Unemployment: lows that hadn't been seen in decades. Home foreclosures: lowest in decades. Job: highest in decades. I actually heard Biden claim that his administration left this country with a strong economy, and Trump destroyed it. This was said after the initial lockdown due to covid. Biden also claimed that he could have handled the covid situation better. Again, W.T.F? You're trying to tell me that he had the secret to solve all of our problems. . . . and didn't tell anybody? If covid was Trumps fault, why wasn't the rest of the world in better shape than we were? Trump wasn't running their countries.

Biden is not my worry. Harris, and her group, scare the shit out of me. When did socialism become acceptable? That is the true threat to our freedom(s). And, un-f'n-believably, it has huge support across this country. When, and how, did that happen? Slo-o-o-o-wly, while nobody was paying attention. That frog never noticed the heat. . . . until it was too late.

Something-To-Think-About.jpg
 

fac191

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Funny thing is our guv makes some of those claims but in reality most of the jobs they put on were not jobs at all but an opportunity to do some work if it was available. We have have sharia law at work here and its mostly for the benefit of normal people to carry on their lives nothing sinister. Dont forget if you want to pander to religion then you must accept it all not just whatever book is the most popular in the country you live in. If man had never learned to write we wouldnt be reading aload of shite in the first place. Its a shame women didnt do the writing we might have ended up with some truth.
 

squarebore

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Sunshine Coast, Queensland, Australia
I see what you did there.

All kidding aside, if you want to see the American people disregard all of their differences over night and unite as one all you need do is send a foreign "peace keeping" force on to American soil. ;)
So far the only volunteers have come from Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, North Korea and Somalia. Mexico said they could send some engineers as the wall is taking too long.

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fredz43

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I agree 100% with Eville Rich. To me it is not a matter of right and left, it is a matter of right and wrong, facts vs science, truth vs lies. Our Liar in Chief can say anything ridiculous and some people are gullible enough to believe it, no matter how stupid it might be, The 15 cases of covid soon going to be 5 and then 0, then it is going away by Easter, so no need to take precautions, it will go away by itself, etc. Those lies have lead to many thousands of unnecessary deaths. But since the Liar in Chief said them many beleived that there is no need to take it seriously, wearing a mask is a sign of political leanings.

The riots and destruction that we saw after some demonstrations turned violent in several cities are wrong, no matter what those groups claimed as their grievances . They weren't political, just an excuse to cause damage and show the world how stupid they are. That was wrong, plain and simple.

The ultra right wing organization QAnon is as radical as it gets, yet is embraced by many and were clearly involved in the riot that attempted to take over the Capitol building and hoped to take over congress. What were those "patriots" that were carrying zip ties intending to do with them? This was a lot more than a few windows broken, there was a lot more damage than that and so far 5 people have lost their lives. This morning there is a report that a second policeman has lost their life. This is serious and another demonstration of gullibility and stupidity, to be whipped into a frenzy by Trump, his family and idiot lawyer. That is wrong, plain and simple.

It is one thing for someone to purposely lie or tell "alternate facts" for their own benefit, but one would think that most thinking adults are smart enough to realize bullshit when they hear it. Unfortunately, some chose to only listen to sources that are in business to profit by spreading bullshit to those that want to hear just that, facts be dammed. The latest series of lies about a so called "landslide" election illustrates how many gullible people there are. No matter that every law suit that has been filed in an attempt to show voter fraud was denied, no matter that every state certified there election results, no matter that Republicans on the same ballots gained seats in the House, somehow those were not fraud, but the votes for president were. Come on, people, think for yourselves, does that even begin to make sense?

So, while one side is called socialist because they support programs that are designed to help the general good, Medicare, social security, etc, it is not called socialism when farmers are losing money due to a tariff program, so the government sends payments to anyone that owns farm land.

Social media began as a good thing, as it was a way for people to keep in touch and I have enjoyed participating in FB to enjoy family and friend updates, share humor, etc, but the downside is I have been surprised that some people that I had considered to be level headed, thinking people with common sense have revealed themselves to be nothing of the source. I have been on this forum since it started and have enjoyed sharing info about our Super Teneres and meeting lots of good people, both on line and in person. Now this forum is getting to the same point of some revealing sides of themselves that I wish I were not aware of. If this type of conversation were taking place in a group, I would walk away rather that continue to hear more nonsense from those with closed minds.

It is time for me to do just that.

Over and out.
 
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Sierra1

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14,812
Location
Joshua TX
And, there's the problem. You have your view(s) based on your life experience(s), and I have mine. We are not going to convert each other to our ways of thinking. That's fine. I will not say that you are wrong. . . . but, I will not accept being told I'm wrong. I'm just hope that the country is still here to have the next presidential election.
 

fac191

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Jun 22, 2016
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London
If people dont we wont understand eachother. Just because i dissagree wirh someones views i still respect their right to them. If anything this forum shows how much common ground people with different views can have. Really we would all love to see peace in the world. Common ground is something to build on and cherish. May be we should all stop here and just hope both our worlds end up in a better place. May be as said the world needed a good shake up so we can refocus on whats really important being human.
 

StefanOnHisS10

Converting fuel into heat, noise and a bit motion
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I’d like to give a compliment to all, this is the most decent and respectful debat I’ve seen from the US of A in a looooonnngggg time.

I expected a lot of mud throwing left and right. So popcorn back in the cabinet.

I’ll throw a little gasoline on the fire here.
Personally I think it is a shame that one of the biggest countries in the world can’t give better candidates than an orange faced toddler and a senior citizen for there president. There must be waaaayyyy better people in your country.

Stefan
 
B

ballisticexchris

Guest
I too respect the rights of others views.

One thing I will not ever respect is the desecration of our American flag and what it represents. When I see individuals grabbing a flag out of someones hand then stomping and spitting on it what do you expect?


I love my country and have the utmost respect for my comrades who have and are currently fighting and dying to keep us safe. And let's give a shout out to the American Bubbleheads whose sole purpose is to keep the whole world safe from nuclear destruction.
 

MattR

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Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
1,175
Location
North Hampshire UK
Ok, here we go. . . . pure opinion from here on. . . . with some facts. . . . our freedoms will not disappear overnight. Slowly, bit, by bit. The frog in the frying pan thing. But, where our country is standing now in the world theater is going to change quickly. Apple has already eliminated Parlor, because they don't agree with what people talk about on there. Trump has already been banned permanently from Facebook, and Twitter. Just social media. . . . no biggie. . . . when a leader of a country gets banned from exercising his 1st Amendment rights, along with "regular joes". . . . where does it stop. This is why there was an attempt to limit tech giants.

Back when blm & antifa were literally tearing the country down, and lighting it on fire. . . . it was called "good trouble". W.T.F? And, I won't even start about why that started. . . . I already offended a few on here with that previous conversation. But, now, the "right" is offended. . . . and do their own march. . . . and it's a riot. . . . an insurrection. . . .without even closely matching the devastation. I'm not saying the persons that illegally enter the capitol were right, but if you see more video than the media presents, they were an extremely small part of the crowd that was present. Even when the media showed video later in the day, the LE line, and the protestor lines were maintaining social distance. Whereas the videos from the "good trouble", show protestors screaming within inches of LE faces.

Trump is not a person that I would probably ever drink a beer with. He's a typical rich arrogant egomaniac. But, as a president. . . . he's exactly what this country needed. Stock market: record highs. Unemployment: lows that hadn't been seen in decades. Home foreclosures: lowest in decades. Job: highest in decades. I actually heard Biden claim that his administration left this country with a strong economy, and Trump destroyed it. This was said after the initial lockdown due to covid. Biden also claimed that he could have handled the covid situation better. Again, W.T.F? You're trying to tell me that he had the secret to solve all of our problems. . . . and didn't tell anybody? If covid was Trumps fault, why wasn't the rest of the world in better shape than we were? Trump wasn't running their countries.

Biden is not my worry. Harris, and her group, scare the shit out of me. When did socialism become acceptable? That is the true threat to our freedom(s). And, un-f'n-believably, it has huge support across this country. When, and how, did that happen? Slo-o-o-o-wly, while nobody was paying attention. That frog never noticed the heat. . . . until it was too late.

View attachment 75841
As a proud socialist I can say that socialism has always been a good thing. Only since Trump has it become a naughty word in the US. Your alternatives Rampant capitalism and unregulated free market economy lead to the situation we now face all over the world. 99% of the worlds wealth is owned by 1% of its population whose only ambition is to pay less tax and gain more wealth by cutting pay for those that create their wealth in the first place and using that wealth to gain power so they can further tilt the scales in their favour. And from what I can see of the US constitution, it is in many ways built on socialist values.


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fac191

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Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
2,827
Location
London
Strange thing with flags. We are called the United Kingdom. When you think of united you think of coming together not conquered which was the real case. I think of myself as a Londoner which in reality means i kinda dont dislike anyone for who they are, however Londoners reputations go before them. Its a funny old world.
 

fac191

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
2,827
Location
London
I’d like to give a compliment to all, this is the most decent and respectful debat I’ve seen from the US of A in a looooonnngggg time.

I expected a lot of mud throwing left and right. So popcorn back in the cabinet.

I’ll throw a little gasoline on the fire here.
Personally I think it is a shame that one of the biggest countries in the world can’t give better candidates than an orange faced toddler and a senior citizen for there president. There must be waaaayyyy better people in your country.

Stefan
There are but money walks and talks. Too much money in politics.
 

MattR

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Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
1,175
Location
North Hampshire UK
I agree 100% with Eville Rich. To me it is not a matter of right and left, it is a matter of right and wrong, facts vs science, truth vs lies. Our Liar in Chief can say anything ridiculous and some people are gullible enough to believe it, no matter how stupid it might be, The 15 cases of covid soon going to be 5 and then 0, then it is going away by Easter, so no need to take precautions, it will go away by itself, etc. Those lies have lead to many thousands of unnecessary deaths. But since the Liar in Chief said them many beleived that there is no need to take it seriously, wearing a mask is a sign of political leanings.

The riots and destruction that we saw after some demonstrations turned violent in several cities are wrong, no matter what those groups claimed as their grievances . They weren't political, just an excuse to cause damage and show the world how stupid they are. That was wrong, plain and simple.

The ultra right wing organization QAnon is as radical as it gets, yet is embraced by many and were clearly involved in the riot that attempted to take over the Capital building and hoped to take over congress. What were those "patriots" that were carrying zip ties intending to do with them? This was a lot more than a few windows broken, there was a lot more damage than that and so far 5 people have lost their lives. This morning there is a report that a second policeman has lost their life. This is serious and another demonstration of gullibility and stupidity, to be whipped into a frenzy by Trump, his family and idiot lawyer. That is wrong, plain and simple.

It is one thing for someone to purposely lie or tell "alternate facts" for their own benefit, but one would think that most thinking adults are smart enough to realize bullshit when they hear it. Unfortunately, some chose to only listen to sources that are in business to profit by spreading bullshit to those that want to hear just that, facts be dammed. The latest series of lies about a so called "landslide" election illustrates how many gullible people there are. No matter that every law suit that has been filed in an attempt to show voter fraud was denied, no matter that every state certified there election results, no matter that Republicans on the same ballots gained seats in the House, somehow those were not fraud, but the votes for president were. Come on, people, think for yourselves, does that even begin to make sense?

So, while one side is called socialist because they support programs that are designed to help the general good, Medicare, social security, etc, it is not called socialism when farmers are losing money due to a tariff program, so the government sends payments to anyone that owns farm land.

Social media began as a good thing, as it was a way for people to keep in touch and I have enjoyed participating in FB to enjoy family and friend updates, share humor, etc, but the downside is I have been surprised that some people that I had considered to be level headed, thinking people with common sense have revealed themselves to be nothing of the source. I have been on this forum since it started and have enjoyed sharing info about our Super Teneres and meeting lots of good people, both on line and in person. Now this forum is getting to the same point of some revealing sides of themselves that I wish I were not aware of. If this type of conversation were taking place in a group, I would walk away rather that continue to hear more nonsense from those with closed minds.

It is time for me to do just that.

Over and out.
Mate, you just made one of the most valuable contributions to this thread and I thank you for it. You articulated you view brilliantly. I hope we haven’t heard the last from you as this forum will be worse off without you.
I often find that those who say the least have the most to offer and that why I listen to them the hardest.


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magic

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Joined
Jul 6, 2015
Messages
743
Location
WISCONSIN
Well put fredz43 and Eville Rich. I am in 100% agreement with both of you.

Sierra1, you seem to have forgotten that trump inherited a healthy economy with low unemployment and rising job numbers. His tax cuts to big business and the ultra rich only gave the economy a "sugar spike". Did you know that the money from his tax holiday has to be repaid this year? Surprised? His trade war with China backfired with the American consumers and farmers paying the price. Your description of trump is fairly accurate except you forgot to mention autocrat.

To those that think our elections are rigged then how did Hillary lose in 2016? As fredz43 stated, the Republicans picked up senate and house seats. This means that many Republican voters voted for Republican senators and representatives, but voted for Biden for president. Hence The Lincoln Project and Republicans for Biden.

MattR, I am not at all worried about losing any freedoms under the Biden administration.

For the record, I am a registered Republican. At one time in Wisconsin we had to register in order to vote in primaries. 2016 was the first time I voted for a Democratic candidate for president. Hillary was not a good candidate, but the lessor of 2 evils.
 
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