Ignition barrel/Immobiliser and ECU

[stutrump]

Dear all. Hoping for some advice. Long story so take a seat!!
To shorten it a bit I'll just say that about 3 years ago the wiring that exits from the ignition barrel on my bike got damaged. My brother kindly soldered the yellow/blue wire because that one was actually severed. Recently his soldering came loose so I had it soldered again but it is not working well. (Fuel pump doesn't always prime and starter button is intermittent.
The severed wire is so close to the bend coming out of the barrel.
The obvious answer is to put a new ignition barrel in but I gather the ECU is 'paired' with the barrel which means one has to buy the barrel AND the ECU. In UK that comes to more than my bike is worth because I've got a lot of miles on it and I use it every day so it isn't very pretty.
Do any of you have ideas that would enable me to keep this ol beasty on the road whilst I save up for another. I've been trying to find another old S10 but they're all out of my budget at the mo.
Any ideas gratefully received. Cheers

 

[BadNews]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

Would it be possible to scavenge a matching barrel and ECU from a wrecked bike, from a junkyard?

Don't know, just throwing an idea out there.

 

[yoyo]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

I'm assuming the soldering is being done with the barrel still on the bike, why not remove the barrel, add a decent length of wire with a strong joint then connect the extended wires to the bikes loom? I've never looked into it on an S10 but it's the direction I'd go. Good luck!

 

[stutrump]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

Hi Aragorn. To the best of my knowledge there aren't any salvage S10 in the UK. Jt is quite a rare bike here.
Yoyo...thanks but yes the barrel was off the bike and we have already done as you suggested. The problem is that the wire is cut very close to the barrel so there isn't much left to solder onto. The wires at the ignition barrel cannot be changed because it is a sealed unit that I believe also contains the immobiliser gubbins. Thanks for your input though guys.
What Im hoping is that someone in the UK might know of a way of re-programming my ECU so that it will accept or 'pair' with a new ignition barrel. A new barrel would probably not even be an OEM Yamaha part because I believe that Yamaha will only sell the barrel and ECU together.

 

[tomatocity]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/13-Yamaha-XT-1200-XT1200-Z-Super-Tenere-key-and-ignition-lock-set-gas-cap-/400932084443?hash=item5d596a1adb:g:hisAAOSwpdpVcHAq

 

[OldRider]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

Looks like what you call a barrel, we call a switch. Looks to me like the switch and the immobilizer come together and the ECU is a separate part number.

 

[magic]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

I believe the European bikes have an anti-theft chip in the key and probably a different p/n for the switch than the U.S. bikes. So, this problem might be very expensive to fix at your Yamaha dealer.

 

[Don in Lodi]

Re: Ignition barrel and ECU

Looks like what you call a barrel, we call a switch. Looks to me like the switch and the immobilizer come together and the ECU is a separate part number.

Looks like part 3 is the actual immobilizer sensor ring. Needed; 'new' key switch w/key and harness, old sensor ring, new key cut using the code from your red key to match the immobilizer, no new module needed. Having a good locksmith in your black book is always a good thing. Anything that has been put together can be taken apart. It's possible even the key tumbler can be swapped from one switch to the other so no new keys need to be made. Possible even that the bottom of the switch can be pried off to allow you to solder a new wire directly to the switch plate. The only short cut I can see is to separate the sensor ring from the ignition switch, duct tape one of your key heads to the sensor and tuck the harness away, then fit your generic off the shelf ignition switch.

 

[stutrump]

Thanks folks. I'll digest some replies further in a moment but firstly a reply to tomatocity. Thanks, but that ebay add is only for the ignition barrel. I need the immobiliser bit that sits on top of the ignition key barrel. Cheers

 

[stutrump]

Oldrider and magic....you are both correct. Don, thank you. Im not sure what the sensor ring is but my damaged wires are not coming from the ignition key barrel but from the immobiliser that rides 'piggyback' on the ignition key barrel.
It costs about £1,300 for a whole new system here, which includes, ignition key/barrel, immobiliser, new keys, ECU etc.
I THINK that could be my only option but I wont do that because the value of my bike is now only about £2.5k
Hopefully I can get the wires soldered again. Im having it looked at again on Weds and I'll take some pictures this time!!
Thanks folks. Any more ideas greatfuly received.

 

[Squibb]

We reside north of you, near Bedford - my neighbour is an expert with PCBs, wire-work & soldering, coming from a background in military electronics. If it can be fixed, he is your man. I'm sure he would give it a go - my concern is that failure could leave you worse off than you are already.

It seems to me that the problem lies in the previous soldering & re-soldering, where the wire has, by now, been through several high heat cycles & is probably brittle & corroded within whatever insulation remains. This is why crimping has become the popular solution. Indeed, there could well be heat damage within the switch itself, given the symptoms you mention, which may mean replacement is your only option. I think the jury is out on whether the switch can be torn down for access. Given the immobiliser scenario, I have my doubts - the trouble is, once anyone commits to that path, there is no going back.

We do know of a poor guy on here, from the S/West, who was totalled a while back, so there has to be a wreck somewhere in the UK currently that may yield parts. It's probably worth talking through the issue with you local dealer too, to make sure we understand fully the ECU/Immob/Red key relationship accurately. It may be that a new ign. switch can be assigned to the ECU?? I can talk to my local dealer's senior tech next week if that helps.

Good luck getting this sorted ......................... KEN

 

[Xclimation]

With all the bike stealing that has been going on here in DFW, Texas; it's good to know that it is not that easy to just reverse engineer our ignitions!

 

[Don in Lodi]

Oldrider and magic....you are both correct. Don, thank you. Im not sure what the sensor ring is but my damaged wires are not coming from the ignition key barrel but from the immobiliser that rides 'piggyback' on the ignition key barrel.
It costs about £1,300 for a whole new system here, which includes, ignition key/barrel, immobiliser, new keys, ECU etc.
I THINK that could be my only option but I wont do that because the value of my bike is now only about £2.5k
Hopefully I can get the wires soldered again. Im having it looked at again on Weds and I'll take some pictures this time!!
Thanks folks. Any more ideas greatfuly received.

Ah. The immobilizer consists of a sensor ring mounted around the key slot, #3 in the fiche. I didn't catch that the bad wire was on the sensor, the description sounded like it was on the switch portion.
Xclimation, this messed up extra layer of security ignition thing is in the rest of the world, it's much easier to modify the ignitions in the US.

 

[stutrump]

Thanks folks. Ken, if you do pass your dealer and can find out anything about that relationship that would be good thanks but please dont go out of your way. Funnily enough there is a guy near me too that makes wiring looms etc. He's going to have another look at it on Weds so I might have more news then. It was working fine today but I cant really trust it, which isn't much use when Im using it for work every day.

 

[Squibb]

Thanks folks. Ken, if you do pass your dealer and can find out anything about that relationship that would be good thanks but please dont go out of your way. Funnily enough there is a guy near me too that makes wiring looms etc. He's going to have another look at it on Weds so I might have more news then. It was working fine today but I cant really trust it, which isn't much use when Im using it for work every day.

I have had a chat with my local Yamaha tech about your issue.

Firstly, no more heat/soldering near the immobiliser as this will simply destroy it for good. Indeed this is probably the cause of the strange behaviour patterns.

Secondly, I'm afraid they cannot code in a new ign switch/immob to the current ECU at dealer level. A full replacement ECU/switch/key set is over £900 new (not sold separately in the UK), say £1k fitted, which leaves the only sane option to seek out an S10 wreck. Whether someone expert in ECUs, like Hilltop, could work any magic I am not sure - it may be worth having a chat with them.

Anyway, good luck today - maybe your guy will find a solution ..................... KEN

 

[trainman]

http://www.yamahasupertenere.com/index.php?topic=14476.15

see page 2 'big dave'

i have read here and on other bike sites that re mapping the ECU can be done such that the bike ignores the immobiliser, maybe on the ST by using an American map - unless you really want to keep the immob suggest you speak to Flashtune or similar, of course postage to USA may cost but i would think still cheaper than a full system replacement.

There may even be tuners in UK who can get the right map for you with immob disabled.