IBR 2021

WJBertrand

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I'm willing to bet that is not just a standard bike purchased at any old dealer. The entrant probably had mechanics (or himself) go over that bike with a fine tooth comb to ensure it will not break down during the event.
I think this is true for any bike who's rider seriously intends to finish, regardless of brand. Reliability wise, the PA is still an unknown quantity and this will be a great acid test for it. In fact, I doubt there's a "standard bike" on the entry list!
 

Checkswrecks

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There is no reason to lower that bike. Seat hight is not a determining factor in regards to holding a bike up. ...
Maybe perhaps the rider WANTED it lowered for his comfort? That'd be a pretty darned good reason to me.

How can he be riding some other bike at the finish and still be considered a finisher? Are the IBR rules different than the standard IB rules? ...
Because it's always been in the rules, as seen in this copy from the 2019 Rulebook:
(3) Replacement of motorcycle: The final score of a rider who fails to ride the entire rally on the motorcycle with which he or she began the event will be reduced by one-half.15 In the event that a motorcycle is replaced, the replacement motorcycle must first be ridden to the location where the motorcycle it is replacing stopped being ridden if that location was farther from the next checkpoint than the location where the replacement motorcycle was obtained. The odometer reading of the replacement motorcycle must be recorded at the point it is first used and a gas receipt must be obtained from the immediate vicinity.

FWIW a KTM300 has just as much chance as any other bike finishing as long as it's properly setup. With a Russle Day Long saddle it is going to be a comfortable ride. The new 300's have a counterbalanced crank so the vibes are a non issue.
No doubt, as a number of much more unlikely bikes have been allowed and have finished in years past.
 

Sierra1

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I agree that this is going to be a good test for the H-D PA, being brand new and all. That being said, I assume H-D has done extensive torture testing. But, I don't know about all the other bikes being non-standard. As far as engines anyway. Of course the seats, suspensions, and such have been changed out for aftermarket.

I have absolutely no experience with IBRs, but the ST1300 was ridden day in, day out. . . . mostly shine, but a little rain tossed in. And, the only things that were replaced were gas, tires, oil, and brake pads. No mechanical failures, with the exception of the left fork seal every couple of years. The RT on the other hand. . . .

My point is, the bikes don't seem like they would be the weak link. It has to be the rider(s). I have no doubt, that I could take my bike as-is, and complete the rally without a failure. . . . if I wasn't a weak link.
 

EricV

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How can he be riding some other bike at the finish and still be considered a finisher? Are the IBR rules different than the standard IB rules?
The IBR rules are completely different from the rules associated with Iron Butt Association certificate rides. Rallies have very little to do with cert rides except riding miles. The rules are posted in the link to the daily reports if you would like to read them. In a nut shell, riders changing bikes during the IBR will lose 50% of their points at the end, but not toward finisher status. If they should change bikes again, there is no additional penalty beyond the original 50% reduction in points at the end of the rally. In some of the earlier IBRs a rider changed bikes 4 or more times before arriving at the finish. In pre-internet days, you bought the closest bike you could find and afford to continue on. Riders changing bikes are required to return to the point at which the original bike died or was left, then may continue on with the rally.

I'm willing to bet that is not just a standard bike purchased at any old dealer. The entrant probably had mechanics (or himself) go over that bike with a fine tooth comb to ensure it will not break down during the event.
Word is he picked it up from the dealer about 4 days before trailering it to the start. The dealer did some prep work. It is a 2019, as I understand, so I have no knowledge of if he's had it for a while and only took it to the dealer for some prep work or if it's new leftover stock. In my opinion, it was not prepped for the IBR. No aux lights, no fuel cell, no oil cell, three dry bags strapped to the bike for luggage. I'm not sure if he had a tank bag even. Or a GPS, though I would expect him to have at least one.

Regardless of what was done to the bike, the service intervals are in hours, not miles. 80 hours for crank bearings and piston? That's going to be about 4-5 days of riding on this event. I doubt very much he will be doing service of any significance during the rally. So will it hold up for 3 times the hours recommended? I personally don't think so. In fact, I would bet money that I could brick that bike by taking it to an authorized KTM dealer and having the firmware updated. It was never intended to run 11 days strait. And most of the "6 Day" special parts are decals and graphics or stamped parts, not technology or improved parts, suspension aside.

The rally pack riders use to score and read bonus requirements is often just printed on standard 8.5x11" paper. One year they printed it on red paper so it would be, (hopefully), impossible to scan and share. This year they received a full size binder with all the rally pack info inside. That's very large to be pulling out at every bonus stop. Especially if you have it securely inside a dry bag, strapped to your bike. Riders often pull up, toss their flag over the windscreen and take the picture, scribble the required info in the rally pack and ride off in under 30 seconds. You're not doing that as easily this year.
 
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ballisticexchris

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In a nut shell, riders changing bikes during the IBR will lose 50% of their points at the end, but not toward finisher status. If they should change bikes again, there is no additional penalty beyond the original 50% reduction in points at the end of the rally.
That is interesting info. I have not ever been in an event where you can switch bikes. Heck man that opens up a whole new opportunity. If I was ever to do one of these I could care less about the points I would be happy to just finish.

Regardless of what was done to the bike, the service intervals are in hours, not miles. 80 hours for crank bearings and piston? That's going to be about 4-5 days of riding on this event. I doubt very much he will be doing service of any significance during the rally. So will it hold up for 3 times the hours recommended? I personally don't think so.
Those service intervals are standard for most any dirt bike. My Beta is the same. I'm well over 10,000 miles and 300 hours on mine engine has never been opened except for one valve adjustment. Most KTM 300's go in excess of 500 hours on bottom end. As long as he has a spare piston to change out and is geared to the moon the bike should be able to finish.
 

EricV

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That is interesting info. I have not ever been in an event where you can switch bikes. Heck man that opens up a whole new opportunity. If I was ever to do one of these I could care less about the points I would be happy to just finish.
Except, there is a minimum points value to finish. You can ride the entire rally, all 11 days, and not be a finisher. It happens every year. It's not the miles, it's the points. That's part of what endurance rallies are about, scoring bonuses and accruing points. You need to figure out the theme, figure out the tactics to earn points, plan a route that maximizes those points, and have to be able to actually ride the plan and do the paperwork correctly to claim the points.

I know riders that can see the winning plan and formulate that into a ride very, very well. But, they also know they can't ride that plan. The winner has to do both and do it better than the other riders. Some have ridden over 15k miles in 11 days doing that, and still not won because the winner was more efficient and getting the points. Endurance rallies are not about who rode more miles in the same time, they are about who figured out the best route to maximize the points in the time allowed.

Oh, and I almost forgot... You don't know what the minimum points to be a finisher are until the rally is over and they figure it out on a curve.
 

EricV

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Two 2 stroke motorcycle have finished the rally . Martin Hildebrandt with a 175 Zundapp in 1997 and Paul Meredith on a 2 stroke Cagiva 125 in 2001. He changed the entire engine once during the rally.
Two 2 stroke motorcycle have finished the rally . Martin Hildebrandt with a 175 Zundapp in 1997 and Paul Meredith on a 2 stroke Cagiva 125 in 2001. He changed the entire engine once during the rally.
Perhaps you have forgotten, back then they only needed to get to the checkpoints and finish. No minimum points required, so the shortest, most direct path between checkpoints worked fine. In 2019 a 1974 Suzuki GT750 made it through to the end, but was DNF for points. That's the last 2 stroke bike that survived the miles. Over twice the displacement and that rider really knew his bike well, and had prepped it extremely well. His downfall was not having any rally experience.

All I can think of is that Michael Boge lost a bet. :D He finished Gold in '07 on a '08 BMR R1200RT, again in '11, (Gold), on a '08 Honda ST1300, then again in '17 with a HD Sidecar rig and his wife and daughter, (12 years old), along for the ride. He knows how to ride and how to rally. The nut-job choice of this KTM makes no sense to me. And apparently not much to him either, since he was a whisper away from trailering it home the day before the start. I know him personally, I like him and his family and I wish him the best. But that bike is not prepared, nor is it a suitable rally bike for the IBR. Just testing it out on a shorter rally would have proven that out. Clearly he has not had the chance to do that.
 

lddave

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Perhaps you have forgotten, back then they only needed to get to the checkpoints and finish. No minimum points required, so the shortest, most direct path between checkpoints worked fine. In 2019 a 1974 Suzuki GT750 made it through to the end, but was DNF for points. That's the last 2 stroke bike that survived the miles. Over twice the displacement and that rider really knew his bike well, and had prepped it extremely well. His downfall was not having any rally experience
No I have not forgotten the rule change. My comment was directed to those who think a 2 stroke can not finish the rally . Matin rode 8451 miles with 25,521 pants to earn silver medal in 1997. Paul rode 7712 miles with 33,286 points for a finish. To me thats impressive for a 125cc and a 175 cc motorcycle.
Some in the past have rode in the hopeless class because being punished by the organizers, trying to challenge themselves, the only chance to get in the rally and just being plain stupid .
I see two riders are on I 10 eastbound in Texas, might try catching them on the traffic cameras later today.
 

EricV

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You misunderstand, I don't think a 2 stroke can't finish the IBR. I think that unmitigated piece of shit KTM won't finish. It's a dirt bike with dirt bike service intervals, not a Zundapp scooter designed to run WFO every day of it's life or a Cagiva, (Ducati), Mito street bike also designed to be wrung out every day, (which still needed an engine swap to finish).
 

EricV

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It's been done. If you want to be different, ride something that actually has a chance, or is really different. And have your shit in one sock when you get to the start. He knows better, yet is still doing it 10 ways from right. I may speak with him at Checkpoint 2 if I have time and he's got time, (doubtful), and ask him why. Otherwise he'll go down in this year's history as the flaming ball of crap that didn't make it X days.
 

WJBertrand

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I have not ever been in an event where you can switch bikes. Heck man that opens up a whole new opportunity. If I was ever to do one of these I could care less about the points I would be happy to just finish.
MotoGP is an other event where switching bikes is allowed. Typically a spare bike will be tuned and outfitted for rain and the rider can change from a wet to a dry set up bike (or vice versa) if conditions change during the race.
 
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ballisticexchris

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MotoGP is an other event where switching bikes is allowed.
I live a sheltered life. Every form of racing and event I have entered gives you a big DQ if even a hint of riding another bike is suspected. Interesting to know.
 

EricV

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The event tests the skills, logistical planning techniques, routing techniques and endurance of the rider. The bike can't do much by itself. In events that are testing the entrants ability to prepare the bike, you might as well allow rider changes. Different focus. Look at the 24 hour driving races of the past, changing drivers was standard practice, it was an endurance test of the cars.
 

JJTJ2

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It is interesting looking at the map and seeing how some are spread out while others seam to be following each other on the map. I don't know what they are doing but at least they are on their motorcycle and it looks fun.
 
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