I want to hear a debate, Soft bags vs. Hard box/cases...

ADVFireFighter

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Deployed in Alaska for 6 months so lots to time to thing here...

Hard vs. soft...

Pro's ? Cons?
On the bike now is a Jesse top box, the big one, I can put my helmet in it. Not "in love" with it but I don't hate it either. I just need to get the quick disconnect so I can take it off when not needed.

ANYWAY... What do you use for side storage and why?
I am leaning towards the Wolfman bags so I can get the rotopax and secure em to the sides as well...

Main goal it to load up for a few days camping. Maybe a trip up to Deadhorse.

Thanks all !!!
 

offcamber

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Hard Cases are more convenient to use and more secure. They can help protect you in a slow drop as they tend to hold the bike up off your leg. Soft bags are generally cheaper. More of a hassle to get things in and out. Won't dent when you crash. Not as secure from thieves as hard bags. It really depends on your needs, where you intend to ride and how you ride. Off road I prefer soft bags, touring on road I like the hard bags....
 

avc8130

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Hard cases weigh more than soft cases.

If you intend to live day to day with your cases on, hard will probably serve you better. If you intend to use the side cases just for trips, the soft would probably be fine.

ac
 

trikepilot

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I use both. I have had HT Tetons and now the OEM Super Tenere boxes. They are hardly comparable when it comes to rough duty. My Tetons acted basically as armor for the bike when it decided to take a dirt nap. Some hammer time took out almost all of the dents and deformities. The Yammy OEM's would not last long in that environment, I would think. Don't want to try to find out.... My SuperTen came from the previous owner with the side panniers and I bought the matching topbox here from a member (from Alaska!) for half price so I look at my hard cases as a "bargain."

My take is that hardcase panniers are awesome for around the city and long "road" touring where you are less likely to be falling or dabbing a foot to have to get swept back and caught by the boxes. For commuting around town when I need carrying capacity or regional trips on mostly asphalt - they are my go to solution for luggage.

For rough riding use, I cannot think of a better current solution than the Giant Loop products. They are bombproof in material and construction. They require no rack to mount. They are waterproof if taken care of properly and liner bags are used. They deform in a crash (if soft goods inside) and bounce back to take another licking. They have lash points for securing other cargo. And they are just really well engineered. http://giantloopmoto.com/products/great-basin-saddlebag/

I know that we as dualsport riders like to think we are cheating and riding in the middle ground between road and dirt. But like any bike in this category, our luggage is also a compromise. The best - but maybe not least expensive - option IMHO is to watch the want ads at the various forums religiously to find a set of hard and soft luggage come available for your bike so you have the best of both worlds.
 

mcbrien

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If your packing for a trip soft bags are nice because they
can be stuffed . you can always get 1 more thing in.
I always have things that don't seem to fit in hard bags .
But if your looking for some where to carry stuff permanently
like rain gear , heated gear etc. Hard bags are the way to go .
As stated in previous post , find some detachable hard bags &
some soft luggage then your set.
 

fedev2

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I prefer Hard boxes, and if the trip is very long I usually mount two hard boxes on the sides and a soft bag for the rear.

Hard Boxes PROs
* they give additional protection to the rider and the bike, acting like crash bars in low speed falls
* good looking
* protection for the luggage stored in
* some options includes passenger handles or rubber back rest for top cases

CONs
* weight & CG of the bike maybe a little backwards
* unable to transform like many stretchable bags
* bike's width increased considerably
 

krussell

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** Hard bags:
+ They lock
+ They are trivial to get in / out of
+ They don't tear, well not that easily!
+ You can put stickers on 'em if you in to that sort of thing
+ Are spendy, buying used helps
+ Often have available liners
+ You can bolt stuff to 'em if you want, lights, bottles, etc
- Are often bike specific
- They are always the same size, even if they are mostly empty
- They don't give when you fall, could be an issue for you or the bag
- They add weight, including both the case and the brackets
- Can be hard to fix, sometimes to the point of needing replacement

** Wolfman Expedition Bags w/ hoop racks:
+ Very secure to the bike (attachment, not entry)
+ weight is low on the saddle bags
+ Pack down to nothing if you don't need them. I often carry an extra small duffel 'just in case.'
+ Adjust to what's in them. When they are half full you tighten the straps, nothing shifts
+ Give a little, nice in a fall, tip, or when they catch your leg
+ Really water proof, patchable
+ Bags move from bike to bike
- Easy to steal, the bag, or what's in it
- Fiddly to get in and out of, really fiddly to get off on the bike. Not hard, just takes time, lots of straps etc
- They are moving away from the hoop racks, I don't think you can get them for the S10 any more

** Giant Loop Coyote/Great Basin:
+ Very secure to the bike (attachment, not entry)
+ weight can be kept low by putting heavy stuff in the 'feet'
+ Adjust to what's in them. When they are half full you tighten the straps, nothing shifts
+ Give a little, nice in a fall, tip, or when they catch your leg
+ water resistant, patchable, can have dry bag liners
+ Bags move from bike to bike
- Easy to steal, the bag, or what's in it
- Fiddly to get in and out of, easy on/off the bike


** Under way, grab something out of a bag:

Hard bags- open bag, perhaps via key, reach in grab, close (seconds)
Giant Loop - unzip, maybe move strap, maybe undo inner bag, maybe move some pods around (seconds -> minute)
Wolfman Expedition Saddle Bag - remove top strap, open bag latch, unroll, reach in grab, reverse (10 seconds -> minute)


** At hotel

Hard bags - open bags, pull liners, close bags, walk away (10s of seconds), reverse on departure (10s of seconds)
Giant Loop - three straps, walk away (10s of seconds), reverse on departure, some adjustment (<1min)
Wolfman arrive - open saddle bag buckles (2x side), remove from hoop (4x buckles / side), unstrap top bag(s), stash straps, etc (2 minutes)
Wolfman depart - reverse above, with bits of adjustment, finding right straps, double check, realize you forgot to put your xyz in the bag, etc, etc. (for me, even with days of practice, 5-10 minutes to get moving)


** At lunch stop, or the store, or the movies ...

Hard bags - walk away, all secure (well as secure as anything is these days)
Soft bags - hmm, nothing secure, keep bike in sight, safe area, eat lunch wondering if someone is taking your stuff


** At the camp site

Hard Bags - open, grab you stuff, ... similar to hotel. Can be removed from bike and used as seat, table, etc.
Soft Bags - same as hotel, but you can leave the Wolfman saddle bags on the bike and save a minute or too


** After a fall

Hard bags - may be just fine, may be destroyed, may need a welder
Soft bags - much more likely to survive, field fix is duct tape

Some folks say hard bags are more likely to break your leg in a fall. I think properly packed soft bags with all the weight concentrated low can be just as much of a problem. My take is you should wear MX boots off pavement, and even on if you expect to fall a lot. That will help.


In general, minutes vs. seconds doesn't seem like a big deal, and it's not if your patient, have nice weather, etc. Fiddling with Wolfman straps in pouring down rain get's tedious fast.

If I had ~ $100 to spend I'd strap on some canvas duffles and hope for dry weather
If I had ~ $500 to spend I'd buy a Giant Loop.
If I had ~ $1000 to spend I'd buy the Yamaha hard bag trio
If I had ~ $1500 to spend I'd get both

On hard bags, I've had BWM OEM top loaders on a GSA, BMW OEM slide loaders on an RT1200, and K1600, Givi on a Vstrom, Pelican top case on my Husky, Jesse's on a KLR, and the Yamaha OEM bags on the S10. My favorites from that set are the BMW OEM toploaders on the GS, and the Yamaha. They are more or less the same design. I like the Yamaha mounts much better, and prefer the BMW latches and locks. The BMW setup is nearly 2.5x the price! I hate side loaders. Forever struggling to keep the stuff I want in them, and get the stuff I want out, out. Liners help, but not nearly as functional as top loaders.

On soft bags, I've had the Wolfman Expedition setup with hoop racks, and the Giant Loop Coyote. I like them both, they are well executed. The Giant Loop win hands down for getting on / off the bike, and for not needing a rack. I know you can run the Wolfman stuff without a rack, but the Giant Loop fit's better. You can keep the weight lower with the Wolfman, but not by much.

Across the board you can score used stuff and save a bundle if you are patient.

Some folks say hard bags are more likely to break your leg in a fall. I think properly packed soft bags with all the weight concentrated low can be just as much of a problem. My take is you should wear MX boots off pavement, and even on if you expect to fall a lot. That will help.

Finally, for hotel trips or camping both, a little bit of careful thought usually can cut your load significantly. At the end of any trip I think about what I didn't use and why. Sometimes that turns in to it staying home. I cut my camping volume by 1/2 last year do that, and by changing by sleeping pad / bag to a big agnes setup where the bottom of the bag is the pad. Hotel wise 2 up we used to struggle to get into three hard bags. Now it's a breeze, a lot of that has been just practice.
 

snakebitten

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Holy cow, what's left to say?
Excellent post, by the way Krussel.

FYI....
Hard cases for travel. Awesome in the road. But never have them mounted when at home or after camp is setup.
Aerostich Motofizz bag for top shelf. Amazing piece of kit.

So I use both kinds of luggage.
 

Salmon Sam

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I have and like the OEM Yamaha bags (complete set with topbox). They are nicely integrated into the design of the bike and are easy to attach and remove. BUT they really are too fragile for any serious off-roading. Better for Starbucks runs and asphalt touring. I am considering some soft side bags for the forest roads and goat paths.
Depends on what you want to do.
 

Kelvininin

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I think everything was covered.

I went hard for the security, and water proof. I have the jesse 11" side backs and the top box. I like being able to lock my XD4 Helmet, and GPS up, also on long trips you don't have to worry about someone gaining access to the bags. I also went big with the 11"ers so that I can carry my work computer bag in a side case out of the elements and easily lockable. They work great but 11" case is a huge case.

I plan to run power to the top case or possible one of the side cases so I can charge gadgets on long trips.

I love Jesse bags, great quality, and tough, I have dropped my A990 on them several times. Have yet to do the same with the SuperT.
 

dirtsailor

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I have had the stock Yamaha hard cases since i have owned my Super Yammi and i have no problem with them at all. I do have the soft case bag for each case so i have the best of both worlds. Ease of use when i am at my destination, all i do is open up the hard case and grab the soft case bag's straps and walk away. :D The only issue i MIGHT have is that the hard cases are some type of mold injected plastic so if i do chunk the bike i'm guessing there will at least be a crack if not bust off if they take a direct hit. Speaking of which do they even make some type of crash bars for your cases.......ok that kinda kills the purpose of the "hard" case ::002:: but either way i love them and they look great to. A match made in heaven.
 

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WRW9751

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After all that's been said, very good all! I for one don't like to ride with any side bags.
I have Jesse's on my Tenere, but use them only when necessary.
I also have a City Tank bag and a small tail bag that stay on the bike always.
The Jesse's are Premiere when it comes to panniers.
But I find the bike much Bigger and Heavier when they are on.
I need to have a propose to use them.
 

Dirt_Dad

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Used both. Strong preference for the hard cases. Close them, lock them, and forget them. Don't care for stopping to put on rain covers over the soft bags when weather sets in. Security is a big factor. I don't want to think about it while I'm in the restaurant. Soft bags I've used have little to nothing for locking. I've had a helmet stolen while getting something to eat, would really suck to lose gear that is not secure.
 

XtreemLee

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I like hard bags for security a waterproofness but soft bags have some really good features. Might be easier to pack in that last one thing in a soft bag.
 

escapefjrtist

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Echoing most, hard bags for two-up and security on trips. For day trips and shorter weekend excursions, I have both small & medium MotoFizz and Ortlieb duffle.

--G
 

Roge

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......................................and you only get the massive bruise on your calf once after you leg gets fired back against the solid pannier before you start thinking of soft bags. Do if you are looking at hard bags watch the bottom front corner, Jesse boxes seem to have the right profile to minimise it.
 

Didg

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nondairycreamer said:
http://www.adventure-spec.com/default/adventure-spec-magadan-panniers-mk2-10745.html

Cannot be cut open (kevlar infused 1000 denier cordura). Or removed from bike if used with cable lock. Waterproof. Far more rigorous field testing than any other in the market.

Note the price without the VAT and delivered from UK is $484.
Quick note on the above. They are not waterproof and must be mounted with a rack.

I'm also looking for panniers.
My criteria is that I will only use them for touring, so most of the time they will not be on the bike and my touring will be solo so I'm looking at panniers that sit forwards, just behind my legs when standing.
If I went for hard panniers then it would be Jesse's but top of my list at the moment are the Enduristan Monsoon's http://www.enduristan.com/en/produkte/monsoon-3-satteltaschen.html
Lightweight, no frame needed, keeps the bike narrow with weight close to centre and at 260 EUR cheap too.
 
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