Help please, 18 hours labor? Valve Adjustment & oil, coolant change?

[ace50]

I'm a crippled old lady but I've done the valve checks on two parallel twins myself (BMW F800S and the S10). At my relaxed pace it's an all day job including plugs and air filter replacement, but I've never had to drop the engine. BTW, what dealer was this so I can avoid them?

Awesome! ::008::

 

[Tenman]

I got charged $450 for a valve check. They gave me a receipt with the clearances written on it. Everything was within spec. I took mine to a shop 90 miles away. I decided to take a shot in the dark. I didn't know anything about the dealership except it was big and had been there a long time. I got a price upfront for the job. But when I called to go get it. The price she gave me was something like $200 more. After talking with somebody else there. I got the orginal price. I do have a dealer 5 miles from house. I wouldn't let them work on a weedeater. I have an independent shop 4 miles away. I found out later. This guy lets his 14 year old son reassemble. I had him replace an oil pan on a zrx1200 I crushed in. I rode it 8 miles down a winding road and the oil plug came out. I did a full lock power slide in a curve and (got lucky) and saved it. I also took a cr500 shock to a veteran independent. He pressed the spherical bearing out of my shock and didn't remove the f king circlip. Pressed the clip out and ruined the lower end of my shock. That damn shock had been sent to race tech and was tricked out. Live and learn the hard way.

 

[steve68steve]

I took my S 10 into the shop last week I ask them for a valve check coolant flush oil change air filter change and spark plug change they called today and said they had 18 hours in this work alone? They said they had to drop the motor from its engine mounts in front to perform the service. I was very surprised. I also asked for brake fluid and clutch fuild...check the steering head bearing and the pivot arm bushing. They said that would be about 12 more hours if they needed to pull the triple tree to get at it? Can you help me understand how much this should cost? Remember I’m at a dealership and I can’t do this work myself.

I replied already, but I don't think I'd digested the OP when I did.


I'm in the "wow, that's way out of line!" camp.


Valve check: there's a lot of parts to remove to get to the valves, but for a competent mechanic something like a few hours makes sense.
Adjustment needed: that means pulling camshafts, which adds time, plus the figuring and calculating. Something like another 2 or 3 hours makes sense.


Neither of these jobs needs the engine dropped - altho IME, pivoting the engine down may make the job go a lot easier (less fiddling around in restricted space). Obviously this is a choice, and if it takes more time to make the job easier to do, that time shouldn't be billed to you. If they have to do valve work, pulling the head is required, and I think that requires at least rotating the engine down to get clearance.


Coolant flush: crack a bolt on the water pump, drain and refill. !5 minutes, maybe? You need to pull the plastics on the left side of the bike. Again, if you've done it a bunch of times, 5 minutes. If you have to fiddle around with the manual searching for hidden bayonet pins, I could see that taking another 15 minutes.


Oil change: 10 minutes. Crack two bolts on the bottom of the engine, fill easily accessible on the right side of the bike. Filter easily accessible on the front of the bike.


Air filter: you have to pull the tank and the airbox cover. I'd say a 30 minutes - but this stuff has to come off to do the valve check, so doing them together makes this job take an extra 5 minutes (to swap in the new filter).


Spark plugs: these are buried deep in the head. I'm not sure you could get to them without removing all the stuff you need to remove for the valve check (tank, airbox, throttle bodies). A biggie is that you don't need to remove the actual valve cover, which is a fiddle business that involves removing ABS line plumbing stays. However long a valve check takes, this would take maybe 20 minutes less. Having said that, again, if everything is all apart to do the valve check, changing plugs only adds 15 minutes or so (gapping new plugs and threading them in).


Changing hydraulic fluids should be an hour or less.


Swing arm pivot: pull the back wheel, the final drive, probably a few covers/ guards, kickstand, kickstand switch, stuff like that. I did it but I don't remember exactly. Point: more involved than cracking the pivot arm bolt, several torque specs to look up and set. It's one of those jobs that seems like it should take 45 minutes but and hour and half later you're still on it wondering why it's taking so long.


Steering head I've never done, but I assume it means pulling the front wheel, brake calipers, forks, and bars. Probably more than just an hour. Everything that gets taken apart also has to get put back together: parts cleaning, thread locker or lubricants, torque settings. IME, THAT is all the time you don't account for.


As others have said, I agree that they should have some "book time" guidelines and the hours they are charging seem to be at least a sum of all the individual times -as in, they're charging the full hours to change plugs, even tho most of that time is already paid for via the valve check. So, for example: air filter, valve check, plugs, they're charging you three times to remove the tank.

 

[mtnlove]

In my previous life I was a service manager. There is a labor guide for everything. If the book states 4.5 hours you charge 4.5 X your hourly rate. If you give the job to your worst tech and it takes 6.5 hours, you charge 4.5 hours. If you give the job to your best tech and it take 3.5 hours, you charge 4.5 hours. It's that simple.

It would be impossible to write an estimate without these guides, as nobody has done everything to every model let alone remember how long it took.

I have not had a dealer work on my bike but understand the flat rate idea. Since the OP gave them a list of things to do would they charge it for the time specified for each job even though that particular job, i.e. replacing the air filter if the air box is already exposed for the valve check?

 

[PAULIBIKER]

I have not had a dealer work on my bike but understand the flat rate idea. Since the OP gave them a list of things to do would they charge it for the time specified for each job even though that particular job, i.e. replacing the air filter if the air box is already exposed for the valve check?

An inexperienced or dishonest service manager might. I had a new service writer try and charge a customer for a tire rotation when we were already balancing the tires. Some service writers just do know, but I like to believe all service managers do.

 

[DryRider]

My service manager called me...we talked about parts and labor. I was treated well. Thank you for the feedback.

 

[Gigitt]

My service manager called me...we talked about parts and labor. I was treated well. Thank you for the feedback.

And... the outcome of discussion was...???

 

[Tenman]

I emailed a shop in La. about the price on a valve adjustment. $400 for just the check. The guy said $500-$600 if they need adjusting . I had them checked at the same place a few years ago for $425.

 

[Scoti49]

I've just done my valve check and found that all are `Only JUST` .

But the bike idles sweet, so its sweet for me .
I would consider dropping the motor out to do the Shim Job ,,,or trade up to a later low km ,or new model Super Ten .

I did valves ,plugs new ,filters ,oils , removed fuel pump and cleaned the Teabag filer and inside of tank .

A good casual days work ., only costs were for consumables, oils ,plugs ,K & N Filter ,oil filter etc .

 

[STenitus]

Seems like a fishing expedition...

 

[JamesGang]

I would like more details on what sounds like an amicable outcome.
Do tell all, DryRider.

 

[EricV]

Do the air filter, plugs and coolant flush yourself. 4 hrs for the valve check w/o re-shim.

By adding the easy things, you are adding a lot of hours.

 

[Boris]

Remember though, it’s 4 hours just to get that breather hose reconnected to the central underside of the airbox

 

[Checkswrecks]

I would like more details on what sounds like an amicable outcome.
Do tell all, DryRider.

His post was over a year ago.

 

[Checkswrecks]

Remember though, it’s 4 hours just to get that breather hose reconnected to the central underside of the airbox

 

[Scoti49]

Checkswrecks ,obviously you need help doing mechanical jobs .

The breather hose can be unclipped at the front and drawn through, still attached to air box .
Or a change of hose clip and maybe very long nose pliers does the job to refit it.

Please don't get a job working on Aircraft (like I have done for 15yrs) , delays cost money in the airlines or lives in airforces .

 

[Boris]

Oh dear.

For further information, please refer to the emojis in post 53.

 

[steve68steve]

Checkswrecks ,obviously you need help doing mechanical jobs .

The breather hose can be unclipped at the front and drawn through, still attached to air box .
Or a change of hose clip and maybe very long nose pliers does the job to refit it.

Please don't get a job working on Aircraft (like I have done for 15yrs) , delays cost money in the airlines or lives in airforces .

And also, it was Boris' sarcasm you missed, not Checkswrecks'.

God, I hope someone who could make such a simple mistake isn't doing a safety-critical job like aircraft maintenance or something.

 

[RCinNC]

Things to do today:

1) Make fifth post on Super Tenere forum.

2) Insult Checkswrecks about his mechanical knowledge.

3) Look up the definition of "hubris".

4) Send out sarcasm detector for repair.

 

[Scoti49]

Oops ,
Boris ..............................................................................CRASH !!!!