Harley Pan American coming 2/21/2021

Sierra1

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I thought all valves were hydraulic in cars. I don't even know anybody that has adjusted their valves, with the exception of guys rebuilding a '50s model motor.
 

blitz11

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I thought all valves were hydraulic in cars. I don't even know anybody that has adjusted their valves, with the exception of guys rebuilding a '50s model motor.
1992 volvo has shim on bucket valve adjustment. Bought the MAC tools tool for it when I bought the car. I check the valves every 60 K miles (really easy). Tool was a good investment. Made one change when i bought the car, and that's been it.
 

WJBertrand

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Our previous Toyota Sienna had non-hydraulic shim under bucket lifters but no required inspection intervals. They must have used really tough valve seats/materials and or larger clearances. We put 160,000 on it with no problems.
 

Sierra1

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1992 volvo has shim on bucket valve adjustment. Bought the MAC tools tool for it when I bought the car. I check the valves every 60 K miles (really easy). Tool was a good investment. Made one change when i bought the car, and that's been it.
Did you do that because you're you, or did the owner's manual spec it? 'Cuz that's the other reason I thought they were all hydraulic, I've never seen it required. . . . unlike a timing belt replacement.
 

EricV

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HLAs come and go. Benefit is no adjustment. Down side is they can't handle as aggressive a cam lobe angle. '90 thru '97 Miatas had HLAs, they they went to shim under bucket for the next Gen. HLAs get sticky when they get old and clatter, but it doesn't hurt performance much. They can be expensive to replace and you usually do them as a set.

Chain is in the eye of the beholder. Some suggest it's easier to do ratio changes. I'd counter with WTF are you doing ratio changes for on a 1250 cc motorcycle? The transmission is a torque multiplier, any perceived need to change ratios is just some dork that can't figure out it's ok to run the bike at higher rpms. You're not taking one of these in the Dakar and trying to dial in for every stage.

HDs are reliable for the most part if you leave them alone. I've owned HDs and ridden them a lot. All the guys I knew that were always wrenching on them had cammed them up and fussed with tons of aftermarket or Screaming Eagle crap trying to get more power. A good friend with a Dyna showed up at a party one night really happy that he had just dyno'd is new stroker motor at 102 Hp. I congratulated him and mentioned it was now only 23 Hp less than my stock Yamaha FJR. He'd spent more on that motor build than I did on my entire bike brand new. I asked if he wanted to take the 125 rwhp FJR for a ride.... "NO" was his firm answer. :D

The Pan American will be interesting. Will it really be priced like they say with two trim levels? Or will it be like BMW GS bikes that are all ordered fully pimped by the dealers and you have to wait months for a plain jane one? Will all the 'rider aids' end up being a nightmare of updates and recalls, or will they just work? It's different for HD. It's not that different for everyone else. In that view, it has to hold it's own against the proven platforms already out there in the marketplace. Up side, HD has a really great dealer network. Down side, holy crap, how many dealers will actually have techs that can work on this new bike? I remember getting basically told to fuck off when I rode a Buell into a HD dealer's service dept that sold them because none of the techs wanted to wrench on it. And that was just a hyped up Sporty.
 

Sierra1

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. . . . Will it really be priced like they say with two trim levels? Or will it be like BMW GS bikes that are all ordered fully pimped by the dealers and you have to wait months for a plain jane one? Will all the 'rider aids' end up being a nightmare of updates and recalls, or will they just work? . . . .
All manufacturers, when they introduce a new model, load every bell & whistle onto the vehicle. Jeep. . . . you can't find a model on any lot for the price that is the "from" price. I had to wait for two months to get mine. Upgraded stereo, and HD tow package. It cost me $750us more than the "from" price. Worth the wait to me. No updates needed, because everything is manual.

We found out my kid's car needed an update when the back-up camera would shut off when the low fuel light came on. o_O My wife's car had to have the transmission re-flashed, and updated when it started acting up. I was hesitant to get an ES, but the "tech" that it has, had been around for awhile. And, I didn't find any reviews/reports that identified any of the tech as a continuous cause of heartburn.
 
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ballisticexchris

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I'm sure there is love/hate about the chain. Part of the reason I bought the Tenere is because of the shaft drive. That being said, each system has positives and negatives.

Can't easily re-gear with shaft drive. Suspension travel is more limited with shaft drive. More weight, more driveline loss. Shaft drive is cleaner and less maintenance.

I'm not sure how it will affect the target audience for this bike. I think a lot of people buy big ADV bikes mainly for highway use so shaft drive is a big selling point. Maybe I'm wrong on that, just my observations.
I hear you there. Shaft drive was not a consideration when I got my Super Tenere. I almost got the Africa Twin because it had chain drive. The reliability, build quality, seating comfort and 19/17 inch wheels is what sold me.
 
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ballisticexchris

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Chain is in the eye of the beholder. Some suggest it's easier to do ratio changes. I'd counter with WTF are you doing ratio changes for on a 1250 cc motorcycle? The transmission is a torque multiplier, any perceived need to change ratios is just some dork that can't figure out it's ok to run the bike at higher rpms. You're not taking one of these in the Dakar and trying to dial in for every stage.
The inability to do easy ratio changes on the Super Tenere is a disadvantage for guys like myself that like to dial their bike in for different riding conditions. This is the first bike I have owned that I have not changed final drive gear ratios. It would be nice to have the ability to drop the ratio for slow speed walking pace or raise the ratio for high speed lower rpm conditions.

I found out in a long rocky 3 mile section of the Grand Canyon North Rim (Arizona Strip) that the OEM gearing sucked. I was in the friction zone for the whole 3 miles. The oil and engine coolant were cooking at high temps. When I got home the oil had a burnt smell when I changed it. If I had a 1 tooth smaller countershaft sprocket on any other bike I could have swapped it out for the day and not been so hard on the clutch.

If I was just a freeway rider crunching miles then the OEM gearing is just fine.

I want to see if this new Harley is able to do cross country tours without ever touching it with a wrench. My super Tenere did a 1400 mile ride with nothing more than my dumb self overlooking a perch bolt that had to be tightened. My Ninja 650 did a 5500 mile ride with nothing more than 1 chain adjustment due to installing new chain and sprockets before the ride.

I just do not see this new Harley ADV bike doing mega miles with little or no maintenance.
 

Johnwesley

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I just do not see this new Harley ADV bike doing mega miles with little or no maintenance.
they may have some new teething issues not unlike KTM or bmw, other than that I don’t see why not. Completely different animal but I took my sportster to Inuvik, NT, Canada and deadhorse, Ak on the return trip did Sturgis rally and the Big Dog event eventually ending up back home in Arkansas. Over 12,000 trouble free miles, except for one chain issue that was my blunder.
 

Cycledude

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The inability to do easy ratio changes on the Super Tenere is a disadvantage for guys like myself that like to dial their bike in for different riding conditions. This is the first bike I have owned that I have not changed final drive gear ratios. It would be nice to have the ability to drop the ratio for slow speed walking pace or raise the ratio for high speed lower rpm conditions.

I found out in a long rocky 3 mile section of the Grand Canyon North Rim (Arizona Strip) that the OEM gearing sucked. I was in the friction zone for the whole 3 miles. The oil and engine coolant were cooking at high temps. When I got home the oil had a burnt smell when I changed it. If I had a 1 tooth smaller countershaft sprocket on any other bike I could have swapped it out for the day and not been so hard on the clutch.

If I was just a freeway rider crunching miles then the OEM gearing is just fine.

I want to see if this new Harley is able to do cross country tours without ever touching it with a wrench. My super Tenere did a 1400 mile ride with nothing more than my dumb self overlooking a perch bolt that had to be tightened. My Ninja 650 did a 5500 mile ride with nothing more than 1 chain adjustment due to installing new chain and sprockets before the ride.

I just do not see this new Harley ADV bike doing mega miles with little or no maintenance.
My opinion Yamaha really messed up the low gears, it goes waaaay to fast in first gear for an adventure bike, other than that the gearing is fine......well I would also prefer a 5 speed
 

Sierra1

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The worst gearing that I've ever experience was the R1150RT-P. Beemer installed a lower first gear in it to give a better launch. But. . . . the remaining gears were left the same. There was no overlap with first and second. Accelerating wasn't to bad 'cuz you could hold first until you got into second's range. But, on decel into a turn. . . . if you downshifted to early, you could/would lose traction, and the rpms were too high. Downshift later, or try and hold second. . . . it would lug.

I have no issues with the Tenere's gearing, or shift points.
 

EricV

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My opinion Yamaha really messed up the low gears, it goes waaaay to fast in first gear for an adventure bike, other than that the gearing is fine......well I would also prefer a 5 speed
Sorry, but statements like this just make me laugh. Compared to what, a trials bike? Go ride other big trailies like the KTM, Ducati, BMW, etc and you'll discover that they all have a faster speed at idle than the Super Ten has.

It's a 600 lb bike. It's not the tool for super slow technical riding. [CONTENT DELETED - CW] compensate for his poor skills instead of bringing his skills up so he's comfortable with what the bike actually does. There isn't any point it making the bike crawl along at 5 mph so you can 'practice your balance'. Learn to ride it at idle and you'll get better at using what it actually has instead of wishing it was different. Adapt to what each new to you bike is capable of or sell it and buy something that has the capability you want.
 
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Cycledude

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Laugh all you want my opinion first gear definitely should have been lower and it really doesn’t have much to do with idle speed, sure I could just choose a different bike and maybe I will someday. If I was buying another adventure bike it most likely would be Africa Twin with DCT.
 

EricV

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Laugh all you want my opinion first gear definitely should have been lower
Ok, compared to what other bike? I get that you want a lower 1st gear. But why do you think you need that? And why do you think it's available? And if you don't think it's available, wanting it won't make it happen.
 

Mak10

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It definitely depends on how and where YOU ride the bike. There have been a handful of times I wanted a lower first gear.

Then I have to remember why I bought the Yamaha. I wanted shaft drive. I wanted a bike more oriented to two up riding. Those two things were a major factor in the decision to buy the Super Tenere.

I am thankful we have options in what bikes we can purchase. The African Twin has a lot of appeal to me. Hopefully this Pan American is a great bike. It gives me another option for a big 1200 sized bike. Even geared down a 1200 sized bike is never going to be a 690.
 

EricV

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There will always be times you wished you had something you didn't. That's just life. Anyone with a manual trans that is stuck in a stop and go traffic jam for hours is wishing they had an automatic trans, for example. But you don't buy a vehicle for that 1% of the use type, you buy it for the 99% of use type.

The Pan American Std is listed with a wet weight of 534 lbs. The S10 has a listed wet weight in 2021 of 584 lbs. Time will tell if riders can really feel that 50 lbs or not in real world riding Vs picking it up when it falls over. The Special is listed at 559 lbs, so down to 25 lbs lighter than the S10. Nearly all riders will add things, bringing the weights up for any bike.

Buyers of a 1200 class adventure bike will buy what ever. They they will proceed to tell the world how it needs to be lighter and faster, but still have all the rider aids they want. Meanwhile, Jeep buyers will just start taking things off or bolting things on to get what they want...
 
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ballisticexchris

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It's a 600 lb bike. It's not the tool for super slow technical riding.

There isn't any point it making the bike crawl along at 5 mph so you can 'practice your balance'. Learn to ride it at idle and you'll get better at using what it actually has instead of wishing it was different. It's a 600 lb bike. It's not the tool for super slow technical riding.
I'm not talking parking lot drills where you can bail out anytime when your clutch hand gets tired or your bike overheats.

The problem is when you are over 50 miles deep into a off highway ride and need that lower 1st gear. I'm not talking crawling along at 5mph. More like 2-3 mph for long stretches. That is hard on a clutch no matter what bike you choose. No matter what bike you are riding there are times that you will find yourself in situations where a simple modification is nice to have.


[CONTENT DELETED - CW]
 
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WJBertrand

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I’ll be the first to admit my off-road riding skills are rusty and best and non-existent for these big adventure bikes. So maybe ignorance is bliss on my part. Regarding slow going in 1st gear, I seem to need a minimum amount of speed to ensure the bike has enough momentum to overcome ruts and rocks on uneven surfaces, that might otherwise stop forward motion. When the bike is stopped suddenly is when I am most challenged to keep her upright.

I’ve found it much easier to ride in 1st or 2nd gear, clutch fully released, with a little momentum, so at least for my level of minimal experience, I’ve got no issue with the gear ratios.


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EricV

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The problem is when you are over 50 miles deep into a off highway ride and need that lower 1st gear. I'm not talking crawling along at 5mph. More like 2-3 mph for long stretches. That is hard on a clutch no matter what bike you choose. No matter what bike you are riding there are times that you will find yourself in situations where a simple modification is nice to have.
If you took a 600 lb bike into an area and discovered you needed to go 2-3 mph, you picked the wrong route or the wrong bike. No road legal bike can go 2-3 mph with the clutch engaged w/o radical sprocket mods that would suck if you actually took the bike on the road to get to that off road riding.

I will say again, you want to compensate for your lack of skill. Your error, among others, is not understanding that skills include route choices, not just riding the bike.

Pardon me if I fail to understand what's "fun" about riding 2-3 mph for long stretches or why anyone would choose to do that unless they absolutely had to in a crisis situation. I told you on day one this is not a dirt bike and the mentality doesn't transfer over.
 
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